Tom Hardy is Venom in new Sony Venom movie...

**Arsenal** · 10-10-2018, 03:58 AM

Originally Posted by JKtheMac

Sony don't need to cast somebody else they already have a Spider-Man under contract to THEM. One that has been broadly embraced by fans and critics. No reason to cast another one. Some people don't understand the Sony / Marvel deal and seem to think that an actor that Sony pay can't be used in a Sony movie. They are wrong.

If they can use Holland’s Spider-Man, why wouldn’t they use him in their Venom movie?

If they can tap into that MCU good will among the GA by using Holland’s Spider-Man, surely they would do so with the flagship property of their new cinematic universe instead of intentionally creating a whole new story without him.

**JKtheMac** · 10-10-2018, 04:10 AM

Originally Posted by Arsenal

If they can use Holland’s Spider-Man, why wouldn’t they use him in their Venom movie?

If they can tap into that MCU good will among the GA by using Holland’s Spider-Man, surely they would do so with the flagship property of their new cinematic universe instead of intentionally creating a whole new story without him.

Two obvious reasons.
- They wanted to make a Venom Movie, not a Spider-Man Movie, because they are building their own universe the long way around following the model that the MCU used.
- If they do include Holland they have to accept a certain amount of oversight from Marvel, and if they don't they can just get on with doing what they want to do.

Consider the much disliked Hulk movie (which coincidently has similar contractual issues because of distribution rights). Just because it wasn't great doesn't mean the property won't end up in a much better movie later on.

BTW they are tapping into the MCU goodwill regardless. Friends of mine didn't understand this is not an MCU movie until I explained it, and the box-office seems pretty solid considering the cost of the movie. That is partly the MCU effect. (It is also clearly pleasing quite a few fans including me.)

See also the Kraven news. Spider-Man in a non-MCU movie!!!! How? Because Spider-Man's rights belong to Sony! (This is very early days for that project so a lot could change.)

**Killerbee911** · 10-10-2018, 04:43 AM

Originally Posted by Arsenal

If they can use Holland’s Spider-Man, why wouldn’t they use him in their Venom movie?

If they can tap into that MCU good will among the GA by using Holland’s Spider-Man, surely they would do so with the flagship property of their new cinematic universe instead of intentionally creating a whole new story without him.

Your right they can't use Holland now because Sony signed a 5 movie deal for Marvel to use him but Avengers 4 and Spiderman far from Home should complete the deal. I remember one of the heads of Sony getting ahead of themselves and saying that Venom will be MCU and Marvel pimp slapping that thought process down.

The success of Venom and Marvel/Sony Spiderman project puts Sony back in the driver seat though. They can choose continue to work with Marvel or they choose the can back to making Spiderman alone and now those Spiderman spin offs don't look that crazy Silver and Black, Sinister 6, Mobius. Sony can negotiate better terms with Marvel aka letting them be in the MCU or they can do self contained Spiderverse and stuff like Venom, Miles and SpiderGwen should be in play live action wise. If I was Sony I would co studio deal with marvel again for Peter but with condition they can use Miles/Spider Gwen with no issues. That way you can double dip on the Spiderman train and not get stuck with a universe without a Spiderman

**Jokerz79** · 10-10-2018, 04:48 AM

Originally Posted by Arsenal

If they can use Holland’s Spider-Man, why wouldn’t they use him in their Venom movie?

If they can tap into that MCU good will among the GA by using Holland’s Spider-Man, surely they would do so with the flagship property of their new cinematic universe instead of intentionally creating a whole new story without him.

The interesting question is what do they do after Far From Home that's Spider-Man's last contracted film for the MCU but it's not Holland's last contracted film for Sony. If they end their partnership with Marvel Studios they can do a Spider-Man film without Marvel Studios put cameos from their new Spider Universe in it and confuse to the public into thinking their Spider Universe is in the MCU.

**JKtheMac** · 10-10-2018, 04:49 AM

Originally Posted by Killerbee911

Your right they can't use Holland now because Sony signed a 5 movie deal for Marvel to use him but Avengers 4 and Spiderman far from Home should complete the deal. I remember one of the heads of Sony getting ahead of themselves and saying that Venom will be MCU and Marvel pimp slapping that thought process down.

Nope that wasn't what happened. The press misinterpreted two statements, assuming they were at odds with each other. They were not. Amy Pascal was talking about the Sony Spider-Universe movies and pointing out that Peter Parker is the centre of that. Feige simply pointed out that venom was not a part of the MCU "right now". No slapping involved and nothing ruled in or out.

As for as I can tell, there is nothing in the contract with Holland that has any impact on anything. Again fan misunderstandings based on overhyped click-bait.

**Arsenal** · 10-10-2018, 04:51 AM

This is probably a stupid question, but since Marvel owns all the merchandise rights to Spider-Man does that include all the side characters/spin offs Sony’s working on too?

And I wonder when renegotiatations are supposed to start up. I assume it’s eventually gonna come up in the press run for Far From Home.

**Jokerz79** · 10-10-2018, 04:51 AM

Originally Posted by JKtheMac

Nope that wasn't what happened. The press misinterpreted two statements, assuming they were at odds with each other. They were not. Amy Pascal was talking about the Sony Spider-Universe movies and pointing out that Peter Parker is the centre of that. Feige simply pointed out that venom was not a part of the MCU "right now". No slapping involved and nothing ruled in or out.

Come on it's on video she was definitely trying to say that Venom was connected to Holland's Spider-Man and thus the MCU and Feige looked at her like she was insane.

**JKtheMac** · 10-10-2018, 04:52 AM

Originally Posted by Jokerz79

The interesting question is what do they do after Far From Home that's Spider-Man's last contracted film for the MCU but it's not Holland's last contracted film for Sony. If they end their partnership with Marvel Studios they can do a Spider-Man film without Marvel Studios put cameos from their new Spider Universe in it and confuse to the public into thinking their Spider Universe is in the MCU.

Right there you are wilfully building a conspiracy theory. You are putting 2 and 2 together and making 5.

**Jokerz79** · 10-10-2018, 04:54 AM

Originally Posted by JKtheMac

Right there you are wilfully building a conspiracy theory. You are putting 2 and 2 together and making 5.

No I'm not I don't trust Amy Pascal or Sony since reading the Sony hacks and that is definitely something they would do she already tried to confuse people into thinking Venom was in the MCU and it's wasn't the press "misinterpreting it".

**JKtheMac** · 10-10-2018, 04:55 AM

Originally Posted by Jokerz79

Come on it's on video she was definitely trying to say that Venom was connected to Holland's Spider-Man and thus the MCU and Feige looked at her like she was insane.

I have seen the video along with everyone else that has gone on about this for the last few months. It really doesn't present the weird fan perspective that seems to be being perpetuated here and elsewhere. Holland has a multi-studio deal. There is nothing to stop Sony using him, they just need to consult with Marvel when they do. Obviously they have no plans to always consult on every spider movie they make, so they wont put him in when they don't need to.

Originally Posted by Jokerz79

No I'm not I don't trust Amy Pascal or Sony since reading the Sony hacks and that is definitely something they would do she already tried to confuse people into thinking Venom was in the MCU and it's wasn't the press "misinterpreting it".

Tried to confuse people? She said nothing wrong. She is factually correct to state that the movies are all connected and Feige is factually correct to state Venom is not currently a part of the MCU.

The problem is purely in the words "all connected" which Marvel like to think is their own phrase.

**Jokerz79** · 10-10-2018, 05:25 AM

Originally Posted by JKtheMac

I have seen the video along with everyone else that has gone on about this for the last few months. It really doesn't present the weird fan perspective that seems to be being perpetuated here and elsewhere. Holland has a multi-studio deal. There is nothing to stop Sony using him, they just need to consult with Marvel when they do. Obviously they have no plans to always consult on every spider movie they make, so they wont put him in when they don't need to.

Tried to confuse people? She said nothing wrong. She is factually correct to state that the movies are all connected and Feige is factually correct to state Venom is not currently a part of the MCU.

The problem is purely in the words "all connected" which Marvel like to think is their own phrase.

"He will be in the world we are creating for Peter Parker you know they'll be adjunct they may be in different locations but it will all be the same and they will be connected to each other"

That was her discussing Venom's connection to Holland's Spider-Man. Tom Holland's Spider-Man world is the MCU Earth. She was definitely saying Peter may be in Queens and Eddie in San Francisco but it's the same world that they're in and Feige was looking at her like "WTF are you high?".

**Killerbee911** · 10-10-2018, 05:43 AM

Originally Posted by JKtheMac

There is nothing to stop Sony using him, they just need to consult with Marvel when they do. Obviously they have no plans to always consult on every spider movie they make, so they wont put him in when they don't need to.

Of course their something stopping them It is Marvel. You think they want to make a Venom with out the big Spiderman symbol on his chest? You think they want to make no mention of the Daily Bugle ? Do you not think they wouldn't have put a Spiderman cameo that would have melted the internet? You have to be crazy to think Sony just went nah having consult marvel is too much let us just go without Spiderman. They couldn't use Spiderman, Hell they couldn't even put in Spiderman related stuff directly, stuff they Sony clearly has access to like the Bugle or John Jameson.

**JKtheMac** · 10-10-2018, 05:49 AM

Originally Posted by Arsenal

This is probably a stupid question, but since Marvel owns all the merchandise rights to Spider-Man does that include all the side characters/spin offs Sony’s working on too?

And I wonder when renegotiatations are supposed to start up. I assume it’s eventually gonna come up in the press run for Far From Home.

We only have the Wall Street Journal article to go on, but Marvel seemed interested in the Spider-Man rights specifically. So for other characters Sony presumably retain merchandise rights to the movies they have negotiated. This wasn't a one way deal. Previously Sony would have had to pay 5% of the movies to Marvel. What is not clear is whether this deal applies to movies beyond the current arrangement. It is important to remember Marvel didn't wave a magic wand and suddenly get Spider-Man back. Sony have a tight hold of the rights to him.

There is no reason to suspect this will cause any major problems between Marvel and Sony, who could just go their separate ways at any time. If they do Marvel will still keep the Spider-Man merchandising rights to these three movies and possibly future movies, but we don't actually know this for sure.

**JKtheMac** · 10-10-2018, 05:53 AM

Originally Posted by Killerbee911

Of course their something stopping It is Marvel. You think they want to make a Venom with out the big Spiderman symbol on his chest? You think they want to make no mention of the Daily Bugle ? Do you not think they wouldn't have put a Spiderman cameo that would have melted the internet? You have to be crazy to think Sony just went nah having consult marvel is too much let us just go without Spiderman. They couldn't use Spiderman, Hell they couldn't even put in Spiderman related directly, stuff they Sony clearly has access to like the Bugle or John Jameson.

Sony own Spider-Man movie rights. The rest is pure speculation and almost certainly incorrect. Homecoming is not a Marvel movie it is a Sony movie. It is an MCU movie.

Pascal and Feige are both producers on the Spider-Man Movies. Sony are paying Marvel a producer fee for Feige’s involvement, so technically Feige is contracted to Sony while the deal is in place. This protects Sony if the deal breaks-up in the future.

**frankyspaceout** · 10-10-2018, 05:58 AM

Originally Posted by Marvelgirl

There should be more movies outside of cinematic universes.

I have not seen Venom but I don't buy for a second it is any worse than Ant-Man 2 or Infinity War. What makes Venon bad to critics? If it is bad cgi, then didn't black panther have bad cgi? if it is bad plot then wasn't Ant man 2 plot flat? if it is action non stop and no substance then isnt that what Infinity war is? No more deals with MCU. The Fox deal has been more of a killer to me since I know I won't get any non-MCU formula movie anymore as a marvel fan (Logan, Deadpool or DOFP). I don't want Sony to suffer the same fate.

Oh stop it for god sakes.

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