View Poll Results: How do you feel about X-men comics these days, and for the last few years?

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  • Amazing, you love major events, you love what they are doing etc...

    15 18.29%
  • you don't like it, and you are hoping for major changes

    67 81.71%
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  1. #136
    Northern Lights Beaubier's Avatar
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    I'm also bored and I'm sick of the X-books being ruled by nostalgia bait. Not sure how much better it is than the T-mist story honestly. You got one writer trying to mimic better writers of the past and the other being forced to use a team whose only virtue is their nostalgia factor. Solid mehs all around

  2. #137
    Astonishing Member AbnormallyNormal's Avatar
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    There is no comparison between Gold and Extraordinary. I quit reading X-Men about 10 or 11 issues into Extraordinary because it sickened me that much. It was like reading Disney propaganda to hate mutants and XMen and worship Inhumans *in the supposed flagship X-book*.

    Recently I went back and read the second half of Extraordinary and actually it got WAY better so I kind of messed up by dropping when I did but still. not my fault it was so bad forcing me to drop.

    By comparison I am at least open to what Gold is doing and curious what will happen. I think issue #4 corrected some mistakes from 1-3 (like at least the original Brotherhood has not been completely tied up in a bow and just forgotten about, there is issue with green alien and magma is staying around).
    Chris Claremont, Peter David, Mike Carey, Cullen Bunn = canon. Others = fanfic.

  3. #138
    long time member Herowatcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psylurker View Post
    Just to add my 2 cents: I think the problem with the current state of the X-books is not so much their number/iteration/roster, but the fact that they hardly seem to be telling the characters' stories anymore. Nothing feels like it matters anymore - gone are the days of character development, evolving relationships and interactions. Characters go in and out the books with no consequence, and everything is done to service the next creative team/relaunch/event.

    I'm not saying there haven't been good X-books or writers lately, but whereas up until the early 2000s I felt like I was reading about the lives of Ororo, Scott, Jean & co, now I feel like I read self-contained arcs by different creative teams, some longer than others, some good and some less good, but always ready to be forgotten in service of whatever comes after.
    I see this as well.
    "History of the DC Universe" by Wolfman and Perez, when the DCU use to make sense.

  4. #139
    Astonishing Member Ulfhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forgotten_utopia View Post
    Hi everyone,


    Someone posted a thread recently about Marvel asking what is your favorite x-men book or character that you want to see in the future installments.
    And that made me think about several things that I would to share and discuss with you.

    1) I am reading the X-men blue/ gold and the champions books, but not on regular basis. I agree that few books had promises and are well written but…
    2) I realized that I am annoyed, far beyond annoyed by the O5 in the current timeline. And that the only reason I am reading their books is because this is the only alive versions of jean & cyclops right now… (don’t let me started on the old cyclops disaster ughhh)
    3) I realized that lot of fan favorites are dead or absent. Hopefully they’ll keep the major survivor alive (Storm…)!
    4) I realized that I had a major and serious major event fatigue. I don't even care anymore...
    Which reminded me of a recent Comicbookgirl19 video in which she explains why she’s not buying comics anymore and why the sales are falling. She also discussed the #1 issue strategy, and I miss the original issue numbers to be honest.


    What do you think about all that? Do you think that this is an X-men issue or a general comics problem? The sales aren’t that high, and all this is probably done from an economic perspective… Which is ridiculous.

    I don’t know if there are any major news about changes coming… But I don’t have high expectations when it comes to the future. Each year things are getting worse…

    Link to CBG19: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CnTDE2zZU0
    Your poll didn't have a middle ground option for how I feel about the current state of the line so I wasn't able to vote here.

    In my opinion there is a serious structural problems with the current x-books. Many of the major characters of the past are gone or unrecognizable. When examining what makes long form serial fiction work for me, it's the characters. Changes to the cast lineup and the depictions of long running character are typically not well received.

    Let's make a distinction between the natural growth and change of a character versus more arbitrary "re-characterizations". Natural growth and change are required to continue to evolve a storyline and provide relevance. Someone earlier in the thread pointed out Cyclops evolution over the last several years as an example of that and I think it's a good example. The changes to the character were earned and logical based on the history of the character and the circumstances involved. This is good evolution.

    The other example, and there are many, is Emma's "re-characterization" at the end of IvX. The changes (to me) didn't feel earned and weren't logical based on Emma's history or on-panel perspective.

    So here we are now with ResurrXion. What is the state of the characters that the fans who buy the books, love and want to read about? I see five categories:

    1. The character is dead
    2. The character is not in a current x-book
    3. The character is significantly changed from their historical characterization but the changes weren't "earned"
    4. The character has been replaced with an alternate version which again doesn't resemble the "earned" characterization for that character
    5. The character is in an x-book and is accurately and enjoyable characterized and any changes feel "earned"

    So with these above choices how many x-fans find their favorite character is in the fifth category? How many fans can say their favorite character are more enjoyable to read now than they were 5, 10, 15 or 20 years ago? For myself almost all my favs fall into categories 1-4 currently with Jeen being the only possible exception. I still can't decide if I'm of fan of her, or of Jean and she's the only version left to enjoy.

    So here's my dilemma. I appreciate that there are talented writers on the x-books at the moment. I appreciate that some of my favorite characters are still around (in some form or the other). I appreciate that Marvel recognized a change was required and did something. But, until I can say that my favorite characters are at least as fun to read now than as they have been in the past, I can't say ResurrXion has been a success.

    At this point though I don't think ResurrXion goes far enough to get the x-line back on its feet but it's still early. I'm hopeful that more of the characters I love will be coming back to a good place. I'm encouraged by some of what I've heard about Lorna and Emma specifically. Until the characterization issues are resolved sales and support for the line will not be what it could be.

  5. #140
    Astonishing Member AbnormallyNormal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfhammer View Post
    Your poll didn't have a middle ground option for how I feel about the current state of the line so I wasn't able to vote here.

    In my opinion there is a serious structural problems with the current x-books. Many of the major characters of the past are gone or unrecognizable. When examining what makes long form serial fiction work for me, it's the characters. Changes to the cast lineup and the depictions of long running character are typically not well received.

    Let's make a distinction between the natural growth and change of a character versus more arbitrary "re-characterizations". Natural growth and change are required to continue to evolve a storyline and provide relevance. Someone earlier in the thread pointed out Cyclops evolution over the last several years as an example of that and I think it's a good example. The changes to the character were earned and logical based on the history of the character and the circumstances involved. This is good evolution.

    The other example, and there are many, is Emma's "re-characterization" at the end of IvX. The changes (to me) didn't feel earned and weren't logical based on Emma's history or on-panel perspective.

    So here we are now with ResurrXion. What is the state of the characters that the fans who buy the books, love and want to read about? I see five categories:

    1. The character is dead
    2. The character is not in a current x-book
    3. The character is significantly changed from their historical characterization but the changes weren't "earned"
    4. The character has been replaced with an alternate version which again doesn't resemble the "earned" characterization for that character
    5. The character is in an x-book and is accurately and enjoyable characterized and any changes feel "earned"

    So with these above choices how many x-fans find their favorite character is in the fifth category? How many fans can say their favorite character are more enjoyable to read now than they were 5, 10, 15 or 20 years ago? For myself almost all my favs fall into categories 1-4 currently with Jeen being the only possible exception. I still can't decide if I'm of fan of her, or of Jean and she's the only version left to enjoy.

    So here's my dilemma. I appreciate that there are talented writers on the x-books at the moment. I appreciate that some of my favorite characters are still around (in some form or the other). I appreciate that Marvel recognized a change was required and did something. But, until I can say that my favorite characters are at least as fun to read now than as they have been in the past, I can't say ResurrXion has been a success.

    At this point though I don't think ResurrXion goes far enough to get the x-line back on its feet but it's still early. I'm hopeful that more of the characters I love will be coming back to a good place. I'm encouraged by some of what I've heard about Lorna and Emma specifically. Until the characterization issues are resolved sales and support for the line will not be what it could be.
    Besides Cyclops which characters fit into categories 1-4 exactly? Every other normal X-Man is still alive and kicking as far as I can tell. Changes made to Warren Worthington occurred a long time ago over a process. Jean has been dead for a very long time that isn't a new change. If you mean original Wolverine , then "ok" I guess but a lot of fans complained about how original Wolverine was being characterized and oversaturated before he died and actually welcomed his (inevitably temporary) demise. I guess you mean Emma and Cyclops. No offense but to people other than Cyclops fans, I don't think your points hold much merit. Although I understand your original thinking about earned vs unearned evolution/change to characters. I don't completely disagree but as always the devil is in the details and how exactly different fans think "earned" is represented or brought about.
    Chris Claremont, Peter David, Mike Carey, Cullen Bunn = canon. Others = fanfic.

  6. #141
    Astonishing Member Ulfhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbnormallyNormal View Post
    Besides Cyclops which characters fit into categories 1-4 exactly? Every other normal X-Man is still alive and kicking as far as I can tell. Changes made to Warren Worthington occurred a long time ago over a process. Jean has been dead for a very long time that isn't a new change. If you mean original Wolverine , then "ok" I guess but a lot of fans complained about how original Wolverine was being characterized and oversaturated before he died and actually welcomed his (inevitably temporary) demise. I guess you mean Emma and Cyclops. No offense but to people other than Cyclops fans, I don't think your points hold much merit. Although I understand your original thinking about earned vs unearned evolution/change to characters. I don't completely disagree but as always the devil is in the details and how exactly different fans think "earned" is represented or brought about.
    I created a poll to examine this question in greater details across the CBR fan base. Perhaps that will give us a wider sense of how others are feeling about this questions. I doubt very much this is limited to Scott and Emma but we'll see.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfhammer View Post
    I created a poll to examine this question in greater details across the CBR fan base. Perhaps that will give us a wider sense of how others are feeling about this questions. I doubt very much this is limited to Scott and Emma but we'll see.
    There are plenty of dead and OOC Xmen to choose from it isn't limited to Scott & Emma.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    The problem is Marvel is damned if they do, damned if they don't.

    If they try to do something new, let characters develop, and allow stories to move forward, the traditionalists get up in arms because things aren't the way it was when they started reading. The Church of Claremont (many of whom congregate on this board) are particularly bad about that; Claremont is the Alpha and Omega, and god forbid you don't adhere to what he set down.

    And when Marvel caves to the traditionalists (and not just readers, but creators as well. Lookin' at you, Quesada) an entirely different set gnashes their teeth about how stale and beholden to the past things are.
    The fairly obvious solution to this problem is to target different titles at each of of the audiences. Have one or a few titles aimed at the traditionalists that follows the classic formula, but also have one or a few titles aimed at readers who want something new and contemporary.

    The Ultimate line could've served that purpose if they hadn't let it wither and die.

  9. #144
    Astonishing Member rui no onna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    The fairly obvious solution to this problem is to target different titles at each of of the audiences. Have one or a few titles aimed at the traditionalists that follows the classic formula, but also have one or a few titles aimed at readers who want something new and contemporary.

    The Ultimate line could've served that purpose if they hadn't let it wither and die.
    Interestingly, that seems to be what DC is doing now. They also seem to be subsidizing sales of lower selling titles via Batman, etc, aided by the occasional crossover (JL vs SS, The Button).
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