wonder woman #23 spoilers

[Stanlos]

It doesn't really. Because it makes no sense on any level. This is a grade A-cluster rivaling that of Superboy Prime punching reality.

What we are dealing with here is the idea that Diana had basically gone insane and imagined an entire world into being around her, and the power of her madness was so great everyone else could interact with it as well.
Despite this being a gross overstepping of whats normally been possible to do to Diana due to the presence of the Lasso of Truth, which is now much less powerful by the looks of things. It doesn't make any sense when you consider there's been a lot of people thats gone to the fake Paradise Island without Diana being nearby... even a bunch of people who were there centuries before Diana was even born. And as you say, none of Diana's friends intervened whenever she went to this place and waved her arms around in a world that wasn't there.

How does any of this make sense?

It can.

There is one clue in REBIRTH that might point to how that might work. Rucka calls the lasso The Perfect, echoing the term Golden Perfect from the Joe Kelly JLA run (and an example of building up or enhancing her mythology and going big).

In that story we learn that Diana is the Guardian of Truth and her beliefs can have a profound effect on reality. If they are going down this route and having elements of Pre-Flashpoint re-emerge then what you propose might be sound. Furthermore it might signal that WW will play a significant role in sussing out the whole mess with Dr. Manhattan now that the emotional turmoil has abated.

But given this is the Geoff Johns show the probability is not high; but the foundational potential is there for a willing author to leverage.

[CRaymond]

So no one felt Diana's rationale in defeating Deimos and Phobos was weak and rushed storytelling?

[tardisoperator]

So if Diana has never actually been back, how, I wonder, will this affect Donna's current origin in Titans? Diana wouldn't have been there or even known of her being created as a weapon to destroy her.

[Agent Z]

So if Diana has never actually been back, how, I wonder, will this affect Donna's current origin in Titans? Diana wouldn't have been there or even known of her being created as a weapon to destroy her.

I'm sure that will end up as a lie.

[sakuyamons]

I'm sure that will end up as a lie.

Thank god imo.

Besides Abnett is already rehashing storylines so I wouldn't be surprised

[Scott Taylor]

Thank god imo.

Besides Abnett is already rehashing storylines so I wouldn't be surprised

Agreed. Donna needs a fresh view that is more positive, imho.

[NYCER]

Now that it's basically finished, I must say I'm a little disappointed in this run. I would have preferred they go the Superman route wherein a lot of the pre-Flashpoint history was merged with the New 52, so almost everything is in continuity. Instead, Rucka went exactly the opposite direction. A ton of the stories we've read about Diana have been a deception and a huge chunk of her past has turned into a blank slate. It just feels needlessly complicated. I can easily see another writer coming along and retconning her history when DC inevitably reboots their universe for the umpteenth time.

More importantly, Rucka made Diana schizophrenic again. It undermines Wonder Woman's role as an avatar of truth in the DC Universe when she herself, thanks to Rucka and company, once again turned into a hot mess just like the Wonder Woman who was given amnesia by Hippolyta when Steve Trevor died and was replaced by his Earth-2 counterpart decades ago.

Wonder Woman deserves more respect than she is getting in her own title.

[Stanlos]

So no one felt Diana's rationale in defeating Deimos and Phobos was weak and rushed storytelling?

I think it was not fleshed out enough. I get how and why but felt the one line conveying it coupled with weaker art for that sequence diminished it a bit. Pacing is definitely an issue with this run.

[CRaymond]

I think it was not fleshed out enough. I get how and why but felt the one line conveying it coupled with weaker art for that sequence diminished it a bit. Pacing is definitely an issue with this run.

The fact that Ares implied his sons could be subdued with "love" --similarly to how he was-- leaves out the fact that Aphrodite and Ares had a deep emotional connection to begin with, that Hephaestus' manacles amplified Aphrodite's love...

Diana was equipped with the Perfect, which is magical and amplifying --but Diana isn't a goddess, much less the patron goddess of love. The twins KNOW Diana, but they're not emotional connected such that they could be Care Bear Stared down by a lone Amazon, even WITH the Perfect.

It reminded me of the Geburah issue of Promethea, wherein the heroines meet a malevolent demon, but the entire encounter changes when they change how THEY behave... It's mirrored by a third heroine "eating" demons when she accepts them as reflections of her darker behaviors. THAT work was weird, but the work was done in dialog and felt right. Diana's actions, in being left to love Deimos and Phobos, seems very, very strange and far too fast as a logical plan. I GET that it's an emotional, spiritual interaction and plan of action, but...

UGH it feels so weak to me! I really really liked the Rucka run's world building and how he was weaving in all the best bits of Wonder Woman. But this as a conclusion and resolution to the character and her battles? It's like biting into a delicious seven layer cake and finding the last layer is dog crap.

[Lex Luthor]

More importantly, Rucka made Diana schizophrenic again. It undermines Wonder Woman's role as an avatar of truth in the DC Universe when she herself, thanks to Rucka and company, once again turned into a hot mess just like the Wonder Woman who was given amnesia by Hippolyta when Steve Trevor died and was replaced by his Earth-2 counterpart decades ago.

Wonder Woman deserves more respect than she is getting in her own title.

I don't think the problem is that she was struggling with mental problems just how he wrote it.

[numberthirty]

You're assuming that what Rucka revealed in this issue affected every appearance of Wonder Woman in the New 52. I think it only affected the stories from her solo book or those that tied very closely to it such as the Batman & Wonder Woman team-up that featured Azz's Amazons. I think most, if not all of Diana's appearances in Justice League are still cannon.

Then you are accepting that it does not work.

If "Darkseid War" is in cannon and works, Diana actually has a twin brother born the same night she was. If that is the case Diana has a father. If Diana has a father, that father is most likely Zeus. If her father actually is Zeus, Diana's corner of "New52" most likely happened.

Is there maybe a way that wind up explaining that away? Sure.

Until then, you are admitting that it seems like "New52"(which would include Wonder Woman) actually happened.

[Outside_85]

It can.

There is one clue in REBIRTH that might point to how that might work. Rucka calls the lasso The Perfect, echoing the term Golden Perfect from the Joe Kelly JLA run (and an example of building up or enhancing her mythology and going big).

In that story we learn that Diana is the Guardian of Truth and her beliefs can have a profound effect on reality. If they are going down this route and having elements of Pre-Flashpoint re-emerge then what you propose might be sound. Furthermore it might signal that WW will play a significant role in sussing out the whole mess with Dr. Manhattan now that the emotional turmoil has abated.

But given this is the Geoff Johns show the probability is not high; but the foundational potential is there for a willing author to leverage.

If it's the story I am thinking of... then not really, because in that story the Lasso was broken and reality started collapsing, it wasn't because Diana lost faith. For it to work that way, you'd have to take the line of logic of Azzarello's Hephaestus who said the Lasso didn't actually have any powers beyond its strength, everything else was something coming out of Diana. And to top that, you'd have to go back to Byrne and make her the Goddess of Truth again, since then she'd be able to define whats real and whats not.

[Doctor Bifrost]

So no one felt Diana's rationale in defeating Deimos and Phobos was weak and rushed storytelling?

I felt it was rushed. Phobos and Deimos are the gods of fear and madness. They should have been able to put up more resistance, even if they eventually succumbed.

[CRaymond]

I felt it was rushed. Phobos and Deimos are the gods of fear and madness. They should have been able to put up more resistance, even if they eventually succumbed.

I've got Hiketeia and the Renee Montoya vs Two Face books. I wasn't impressed with Rucka's resolution of the Cadula arc of this run, and now this... can you say if rushed, weak conclusions are a recurring problem in his writing?

[Dr. Poison]

Then you are accepting that it does not work.

If "Darkseid War" is in cannon and works, Diana actually has a twin brother born the same night she was. If that is the case Diana has a father. If Diana has a father, that father is most likely Zeus. If her father actually is Zeus, Diana's corner of "New52" most likely happened.

Is there maybe a way that wind up explaining that away? Sure.

Until then, you are admitting that it seems like "New52"(which would include Wonder Woman) actually happened.

I'm not admitting anything like that. Jason could simply be something as simple as a leftover anomaly that Dr. Manhattan made real. After all, it was Geoff Johns that hired Greg Rucka saying Wonder Woman hadn't been herself in quite some time and he wanted Rucka to remedy that.