wonder woman #23 spoilers

[gwangung]

I thought it was implied to have been an envoy of Ares, since the bite mark on Diana was Ares' doing.

Yeah, pegged that back in the asylum issues....

[CRaymond]

This issue was trash. When did Ares become the God of Exposition? I've got Handmaids viewing party tonight so I'll have to weigh in tomorrow.

[HaveAtThee]

I've been out of comics for a while but am debating picking up Rucka's most recent WW run. Has it been good?

[SiegePerilous02]

I've been out of comics for a while but am debating picking up Rucka's most recent WW run. Has it been good?

Like with all WW runs, it largely depends on who you ask. I think it's been great overall even if some individual issues were kind of weak here and there.

I think I need to read the final two issues and how they follow up on this one before I can determine how I feel about #23. #25 in particular is being touted as the double sized one that ties everything together and acts as the actual resolution, so that will hopefully clear up some of the hazy details we got here. I find Ares being a willing prisoner of the Amazons very interesting, and the goodbyes between the two sets of mothers and daughters was extremely effective. The actual defeat of Deimos and Phobos seemed too rushed and goofy in how it was executed, even though I think the intent behind it was great.

[hkgkindaichi]

Hm...I don't know how to feel about this issue. It was well-written, but it doesn't really answer many questions about Diana's memories. In fact, it sort of opens a lot of questions, mostly about the status of Ares in the DCU. So, is Rucka basically retconning it so that the George Perez Ares was never really Ares? Are we supposed to look at any Wonder Woman story that has him in it as just Phobos and Deimos masquerading as him? Even Diana seems to not believe it when she says "you are saying we have never met before?". Though, even there, there's still so much uncertainty about how much of Diana's Post-Crisis life still applies. I kinda hope that that's another "lie" that's being told to Diana. I like Ares as a villain.

I also agree with the sentiment that they way Rucka handled the final confrontation as being somewhat underwhelming.

We don't have answer at this moment. Everything that relate to post crisis/pre flashpoint should be wait till geoff complete the whole rebirth run
Right now we can only focus on the connection between n52 and rebirth

[Doctor Bifrost]

Hm...I don't know how to feel about this issue. It was well-written, but it doesn't really answer many questions about Diana's memories. In fact, it sort of opens a lot of questions, mostly about the status of Ares in the DCU. So, is Rucka basically retconning it so that the George Perez Ares was never really Ares? Are we supposed to look at any Wonder Woman story that has him in it as just Phobos and Deimos masquerading as him? Even Diana seems to not believe it when she says "you are saying we have never met before?". Though, even there, there's still so much uncertainty about how much of Diana's Post-Crisis life still applies. I kinda hope that that's another "lie" that's being told to Diana. I like Ares as a villain.

I don't think this story restored - or was meant to restore - Diana's post-CoIE, pre-Flashpoint life, any more than Titans Hunt and the new version of the Titans comic truly restores the Titans from that era.

What is done is explain away The New 52 without utterly retconning it, and gives us a new starting point that is more similar to the post-CoIE version. But certainly not identical.

Whether this will be further changed/retconned by the end of Rebirth has yet to be seen. But I don't think the "Truth" established here is meant to be applied to the George Perez era, if that's what you meant.

[Pinsir]

I've been out of comics for a while but am debating picking up Rucka's most recent WW run. Has it been good?

The current run by Greg Rucka is about to end at #25, so maybe? DC paperbacks are slow though.

[Pinsir]

I don't think this story restored - or was meant to restore - Diana's post-CoIE, pre-Flashpoint life, any more than Titans Hunt and the new version of the Titans comic truly restores the Titans from that era.

Well, I think this is the only Rebirth run that specifically forbids the possibility that stories set in the Post-Crisis continuity are 'canon.' Every post-Crisis story involves the Amazons to some extant.

[Doctor Bifrost]

So my question is..whose played with her memories?

Apparently the patron deities did it, so that Diana would believe that she had been coming and going from Themyscira all this time, and thus wouldn't be motivated to look for it. Because if she did she would find it, and someone hunting for Ares - like his sons Phobos and Deimos - could follow her there.

However, the idea that, in giving her false memories and experiences, the deities would contrive something as complicated and contrary to the actual facts as Azzarello's version, still seems unexplained to me. Also: were the gods interweaving these false memories/experiences with Diana's actual life in Man's World, or did the whole New 52 run happen - in Diana's mind - at the beginning of her superhero career? (It didn't seem to.)

And what about when Superman met Azzarello's version of the Greek gods, or when Diana teamed with Batwoman at a site in Man's World that Amazons had been guarding? And what about Exoristos? Is all that stuff from The New 52 just retconned out, or converted into fantasies that gods imposed on Diana?

There was a lot of interesting stuff here, and certainly it was beautiful to look at. But I wanted to like it a lot more than I did. And the status quo it leaves us with - Diana apparently spent a decade or so in Man's World believing completely and utterly false things about herself, her mother, the Amazons, and the gods, and now still can't get back to Themyscira - is not one I'm thrilled with. Although I like it lots more than The New 52's man-hating, murderous sex-pirate Amazons who would drown their own infant sons if a kindly male god didn't take them off their hands, and Diana being literally defined by, and gaining her powers from, the fact that she's Zeus's daughter. (I'm assuming that the Daddy Zeus thing is gone now.)

And I would have liked to see Phobos and Deimos put up a little more of a fight. They are the gods of fear and madness; they should be able to struggle a little longer against Diana's love before succumbing.

But that's just me.

[Lex Luthor]

Does she need one?

Yes, I don't think she needs to be tragic or have some tragedy and that's clearly what this is trying to give her

[Largo161]

I'm gonna have to wait until issue twenty five is out, then take an afternoon and reread the run before I give my verdict. While this issue did have a sense of closure...it felt anti-climactic.

[NYCER]

Very disappointing. Minority opinion here but I really liked Diana in The New 52's JUSTICE LEAGUE and SUPERMAN/WONDER WOMAN.

If one of the goals of #Rebirth was to bring back pre-FLASHPOINT history, legacy that was purportedly lost or whatever flowery nonsense Geoff Johns was spewing, then why the hell did Greg Rucka undo George Perez's seminal post CRISIS reboot story of Diana battling the real Ares as her first mission outside Themyscira?

I did not enjoy the Azzarello and Chiang run at all and was hopeful when it was announced that Rucka would captain WONDER WOMAN post-#Rebirth, but once again I'm left with the feeling that I don't know or recognize my favorite comic book character in her own title, which is how I felt after 3 years of Azzarello and Chiang being at the helm of The New 52 Wonder Woman.

I pray to God the movie delivers unlike Rucka's run post #Rebirth.

[Stanlos]

I've been out of comics for a while but am debating picking up Rucka's most recent WW run. Has it been good?

It's been largely good but suffers some pacing issues as well some burdensome continuity fixes. Worth checking out for sure but outside of the Scott art I think his first run eclipses REBIRTH.

[Agent Z]

Some of the best Wonder Woman writers - Perez, Potter, Loebs, Byrne, Rucka and Azzarello - have tried, mostly in vain, to put Paradise in the rearview, long enough to connect Diana more fully to the mortal world. Mr. Rucka said he wanted to make Paradise Island, a special place, again; this run accomplished that, well enough. Wonder Woman has a new, partially human family, here in Man's World; she has made formidable enemies, here, also, and all that happened, without Paradise Island being the center of it all. Hopefully, WW's future writers will find a comfortable balance for Paradise's presence in the comic and avoid making Themyscira the center of the Wonderverse, again, ..with every other story starting or ending on That Blamed Island.

Wonder Woman should be the center of the Wonderverse; not Paradise Island. When someone, who loves Wonder Woman as much as Greg Rucka, has grown tired of everything revolving around Paradise Island, that should tell us that something has gone terribly wrong.

I continue to believe that Wonder Woman needs two comics, with the Wonder Woman comic primarily showcasing (as it was created to do) her adventures in Man's World, ..and a second comic, Sensational World of Wonder Woman (?), almost entirely focused on her life with the Amazons and myth-inspired, dark fantasy stories. Maybe, we'll get it, if the movie's successful enough.

There are literally two times in post crisis history in which Themyscira got heavy focus - Jimenez and Rucka's first run. That's it. Complaining about Themyscira getting focus is like complaining about Atlantis on Aquaman or Krypton in Superman

[Lex Luthor]

This issue was a let down for me. I'm not too surprised since I've consistently felt that the The Lies was a bit mediocre even though I've somewhat enjoyed them. Diana is constantly not fighting to the point that its just tiring to see her take this "high road" again. We didn't really get to see an all out brawl with fake Ares and now she's had to play the passive route again. While I get why she was written this way I want to see her fight physically at least against these Gods who are meant to be super powerful in the same victorious way we get when we see superman fight darkseid or someone similar, esp since all they do to her treat her so poorly. This just feels anti climatic to have this entire story build up and for the end to be like this. I like what's happening with Veronica here and I'm excited to see what these last two issues have in store for her and Diana. I think Rucka's best work has been in making Veronica a villain I really want to see more of her now. I hope future writers find some other way to take on Diana's relationship with Themyscira because I didn't like this very much. I always thought her being able to visit Themyscira every so often gave her something unique but this just feels like a way to give her some sort of tragedy in her life which was part of why I never liked the Zeus father stuff though it wasn't the main reason why. It's still a decent story and there is still more to read so this run is still at least good but I feel if I re read it all in one sitting I would be disappointed with how this all panned out.