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  1. #1
    All-New Member 2cats's Avatar
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    Default Is Loki the closer to Satan that ever was in Marvel?

    I don't remember the exact issue but once Mephisto explained that nobody had seen Satan in mileniums, and so his existance was debious at best, but also since he is the supposed ruler of Hell many Hell Lords pretended to be him or self proclaimed themselves as such after gaining control over many Hell territories.
    Which made me belive Satan was more a title than a real character.
    But then, there is the case of Loki, whose first apperances (Venus Vol 1), depicted him as Satan. He is recognized by not only his demon servants as such but also by the Olympians that refered to him indistinctly as Loki, Lucifer and Satan.
    As far as I know that is the most widespread recognition someone called Satan had, but I'm not well versed in the Hellish or Olympian side of Marvel. I would love to read your clarifications on the subject.

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    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    I don't think these old stuff like from Venus series are canon to current Loki?

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    I need help with this one but want to say that in the original Mike Ploog drawn origin of Ghost Rider, the demonic character was supposed to be Satan. But since I'd say the 80's Marvel has backed away from having Satan Satan in the 616. I'm pretty sure the subject was even brought in an issue of West Coast Avengers where they team up with Hellstorm and someone starts listing various Satan-styled characters

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    I'm sure Loki has presented himself as Satan in the past, but so has Mephisto and tons of other demons and Hell Lords. It doesn't matter what the normal person thinks when it comes to who is Satan, but rather who the demons and denizens of the various Hells know is Satan.

    Loki isn't in charge of any sector of Hell and is more likely just called that because he was, well, Loki.

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    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Mephisto has at various points claimed that he is Satan, he is not Satan, some other guy is Satan, he is one of the pieces that comprise Satan, and that there never was a Satan.

    Of course he also once told X-factor that he was just a mutant that happened to look like the devil.

    Then he took Jean Grey's soul.

    The point is, don't trust a guy that willingly calls himself the Prince of Lies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post

    The point is, don't trust a guy that willingly calls himself the Prince of Lies.
    Ain't that the truth!

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    All-New Member 2cats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    I'm sure Loki has presented himself as Satan in the past, but so has Mephisto and tons of other demons and Hell Lords. It doesn't matter what the normal person thinks when it comes to who is Satan, but rather who the demons and denizens of the various Hells know is Satan.

    Loki isn't in charge of any sector of Hell and is more likely just called that because he was, well, Loki.
    Well, that is exactly my point. Contrary to other demons who pretended to be Satan, Loki never presented himself as such. He was called like that by demons and more remarkable gods. So I thought that there was a concensous about who Satan was among those factions, some parts of hell and Olympus. In fact, it is told in those issues that Loki was banished to the underworld by the Olympians where he reigned. (I know, the first time I read it I thought the writers were doing a remix of three mythologies).

    As you wrote, Loki isn't in charge of any part of Hell in the present, just as Mephisto described Satan, nobody have seen him in milenia and so his rule over Hell is in question.

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    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2cats View Post
    I don't remember the exact issue but once Mephisto explained that nobody had seen Satan in mileniums, and so his existance was debious at best, but also since he is the supposed ruler of Hell many Hell Lords pretended to be him or self proclaimed themselves as such after gaining control over many Hell territories.
    Which made me belive Satan was more a title than a real character.
    But then, there is the case of Loki, whose first apperances (Venus Vol 1), depicted him as Satan. He is recognized by not only his demon servants as such but also by the Olympians that refered to him indistinctly as Loki, Lucifer and Satan.
    As far as I know that is the most widespread recognition someone called Satan had, but I'm not well versed in the Hellish or Olympian side of Marvel. I would love to read your clarifications on the subject.
    The exact story is Journey into Mystery #627, by Kieron Gillen.

    I believe structurally Mephisto was partly used by Gillen in that run as a mirror of Loki, so that may be why you are equating them. There is a kind of evil triangle going on between Hela, Mephisto and Loki. Mephisto reflecting the way Loki makes deals and manipulates. I don't think that idea would necessarily stretch to every story about Loki.

    In that particular issue I believe we are supposed to wonder if Mephisto doth protest to much. That Gillen is winking at the reader, knowing that Mephisto is only not identified as Satan for historic publishing and IP reasons.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 05-25-2017 at 09:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    The exact story is Journey into Mystery #627, by Kieron Gillen.

    I believe structurally Mephisto was partly used by Gillen in that run as a mirror of Loki, so that may be why you are equating them. There is a kind of evil triangle going on between Hela, Mephisto and Loki. Mephisto reflecting the way Loki makes deals and manipulates. I don't think that idea would necessarily stretch to every story about Loki.

    In that particular issue I believe we are supposed to wonder if Mephisto doth protest to much. That Gillen is winking at the reader, knowing that Mephisto is only not identified as Satan for historic publishing and IP reasons.
    Yeah, Kieron Gillen used Mephisto and Loki to somewhat great effect back in Journey into Mystery. The two of them effectively start off in the same position: Ancient evil trying to expand their reach and influence. And then Loki decides to enact the world's most complex suicide plot to get himself out of that cycle. Mephisto is later used something of a reminder of where Loki started and as a measuring stick to show how much he has changed. And then the bad thing happens...

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    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    Yeah, Kieron Gillen used Mephisto and Loki to somewhat great effect back in Journey into Mystery. The two of them effectively start off in the same position: Ancient evil trying to expand their reach and influence. And then Loki decides to enact the world's most complex suicide plot to get himself out of that cycle. Mephisto is later used something of a reminder of where Loki started and as a measuring stick to show how much he has changed. And then the bad thing happens...
    Yes, then the bad thing happens. It was ever thus with Gillen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Yes, then the bad thing happens. It was ever thus with Gillen.
    I still remember the bad thing. Most depressing issue ever. Sure, we got a great Loki and some great stories out of it, but dear God, I don't think there's ever been a more depressing issue of a comic since.

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    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    I still remember the bad thing. Most depressing issue ever. Sure, we got a great Loki and some great stories out of it, but dear God, I don't think there's ever been a more depressing issue of a comic since.
    Well now that Loki has allowed the gods to escape the Ragnarok cycle with a single bound, I imagine Loki is probably having a bit of an existential crisis. No longer destined to kick off the end of the world what's a god of mischief to do! No wonder he was looking bored after tricking those Shi'ar gods. Where we last left him in Muspelheim he seems only a spark away from turning. I can't imagine Malekith trusts him totally.

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