"Tonight, we dine on Mustafar!"

[Carabas]

Feats for pushing that many objects at once? This is a sith we're talking about, not Neo in the Matrix.

Nobody in the
Star Wars universe has feats against spears.
But the number is not relevant as he's not targetting individual spears. It's a wave of tk that spreads out from him. Not really any way for a spear to get passed that.

[Basara]

Nobody in the
Star Wars universe has feats against spears.
But the number is not relevant as he's not targetting individual spears. It's a wave of tk that spreads out from him. Not really any way for a spear to get passed that.

It isn't about spears, it's about objects. Outside of the first "Clone Wars" cartoon series, no jedi or sith has shown the ability to affect an extremely large number of objects, be it droids or blasters. If they had, the arena battle against the droids in Attack of the Clones would have been over extremely quickly as the droids/bugs would have been helpless.

As it was though, the jedi needed the clone army to bail out the handful that survived the slaughter when the droids/bugs overwhelmed them with numbers.

Reminder: droids/bugs also have no defense against lightsabers or the force. Despite this weakness, they still steamrolled all over the jedi.

Much like this scenario. Sure, Ani can and will force push a wave of spears. He might even get the second wave. But spears coming from different angles as the Spartans spread out and throw when he is distracted from other spears? I seriously doubt that. And even if he somehow manages to somehow not get hit, he still has to deal with the Spartans, who will not just stand still and let him throw lava at them. Eventually he will have to come down from the platform and face them on the ground.

Once on the ground, he will have to be absolutely perfect, cutting down each and every Spartan without getting hit once. Just one cut and Ani's ability to fight is hampered. At that point, it's game over.

Could Ani be perfect in melee combat against 300 highly skilled warriors who are fearless in battle? That doesn't seem likely to me.

[Carabas]

It isn't about spears, it's about objects. Outside of the first "Clone Wars" cartoon series, no jedi or sith has shown the ability to affect an extremely large number of objects, be it droids or blasters. If they had, the arena battle against the droids in Attack of the Clones would have been over extremely quickly as the droids/bugs would have been helpless.
As it was though, the jedi needed the clone army to bail out the handful that survived the slaughter when the droids/bugs overwhelmed them with numbers. bugs also have no defense against lightsabers or the force. Despite this weakness, they still steamrolled all over the jedi-

Of course it was later shown in the Clone Wars series (the canon one) that the amount of battle droids in that arena counts as a mild diversion for a single Jedi. The scene was pure PIS.

Much like this scenario. Sure, Ani can and will force push a wave of spears. He might even get the second wave. But spears coming from different angles as the Spartans spread out and throw when he is distracted from other spears? I seriously doubt that. And even if he somehow manages to somehow not get hit, he still has to deal with the Spartans, who will not just stand still and let him throw lava at them. Eventually he will have to come down from the platform and face them on the ground.

Spartans don't spread out, the go into phalanx formation and slowly march forward.
Spartans also don't carry javelins. They carry a single spear, which is not a weapon suited for throwing, it is a melee weapon ideally used to meet a charge with.

Once on the ground, he will have to be absolutely perfect, cutting down each and every Spartan without getting hit once. Just one cut and Ani's ability to fight is hampered. At that point, it's game over.

He can just jump away if he starts to get swarmed.

Could Ani be perfect in melee combat against 300 highly skilled warriors who are fearless in battle? That doesn't seem likely to me.

He's killing a good 200 of them before melee even starts. With lava.

[kane]

He's killing a good 200 of them before melee even starts. With lava.

What are the feats of Anakin moving objects equal to the amount of Lava you need to kill 200 people, especially in a combat situation?

Movie jedi are not really that impressive and despite all the "chosen one" and "high midochlorian count" stuff Anakin has no real impressive feats. 300 spartans are too much for him. They will rush at him and while he will certainly kill a lot of them the spartans will overwhelm him.

[Carabas]

What are the feats of Anakin moving objects equal to the amount of Lava you need to kill 200 people, especially in a combat situation?

He's not moving the lava. He's moving the Spartans.

Movie jedi are not really that impressive and despite all the "chosen one" and "high midochlorian count" stuff Anakin has no real impressive feats. 300 spartans are too much for him. They will rush at him and while he will certainly kill a lot of them the spartans will overwhelm him.

Canon is somewhat larger than the movies.

And how exactly are they rushing him? Do you remember what the terrain on Mustafar is like?

He can just jump onto an island floating in the lava sea.

And even if terrain would be agreeable, you can't really rush or surround somebody who can use Force Push and Force Jump at will unles you have something similar.

Spartan's main claim to fame is their shield formations that they can use to hold off much larger armies. Which is useles here.

[Basara]

Of course it was later shown in the Clone Wars series (the canon one) that the amount of battle droids in that arena counts as a mild diversion for a single Jedi. The scene was pure PIS.

No it wasn't. At no time in the canon Clone Wars did any single jedi face odds like that straight on and not die. They always had clone squad back-up or had to retreat. The closest example of a jedi facing extreme odds is Yoda having to use hit and run tactics when he was facing odds of 100 to 1 against idiotic droids.

Ani's facing 300 highly trained warriors who are not idiots.

[quote[Spartans don't spread out, the go into phalanx formation and slowly march forward. Spartans also don't carry javelins. They carry a single spear, which is not a weapon suited for throwing, it is a melee weapon ideally used to meet a charge with.[/quote]

You're confusing history with the movie. The movie showed on more than one occasion that the Spartans were not just slow marching phalanx types. They threw their spears as javelins to kill a Rhino, impale a Persian through the chest, and injure Xerxes (just off the top of head, there might be more thrown spear feats). They broke formation all the freaking time to spread out and Captain America the Persians. This is what Ani is up against, not historical Spartans.

So yeah, he will have to dodge thrown spears and deal with 300 Captain America stand ins who don't just stay in phalanx formation and wait.

He can just jump away if he starts to get swarmed.

That's just it, if he's getting swarmed by these fearless warriors, he's likely getting cut or stabbed at least once. He's going to have to work to make sure the Spartans cannot swarm him. Given how well the Spartans work together, that's not likely.

He's killing a good 200 of them before melee even starts. With lava.

Again, feats for moving that many men with the force? While dodging or force pushing in place on a tiny platform that doesn't allow you to step aside one way or another while projectiles are coming at him from different angles?

This claim is highly dubious. If Ani makes the mistake of staying on the platform, it's far more likely that he becomes a pin cushion.

[Carabas]

Let's show some feats for the Spartans for not instantly dying from standing in air that is superheated by lava to 500+°C.

[Beadle]

OK, I've not got involved so far, but a couple of things:

1) Jedi deal with deflecting multiple blaster bolts all the time. Blaster bolts have two distinct advantages over thrown spears. Firstly, they're much quicker. Secondly, when you've fired a blaster, you still have a blaster. That's not the case with throwing spears. You're then left with unarmed men (or men armed with melee weapons) rushing headlong at a guy swirling a lightsaber around. That won't end well for them.

2) At what point did they become Captain America equivalents? That's one hell of a leap in standards. They're very impressive warriors, granted. But they're not Cap.

[Carabas]

And let's not forget that all of this is happening on Mustafar of all places.

Even if the Spartans are not cooked alive as soon as they enter the battlefield just from standing there (also, those spears they're supposed to be throwing, they start to burn almost immediately), Anakin has an insane advantage in mobility. It's all mountains, cliffs, and lakes and rivers of lava.
No Spartan is getting within 10 feet of somebody with Force Jump unles he is allowed to.

[Carabas]

No it wasn't. At no time in the canon Clone Wars did any single jedi face odds like that straight on and not die. They always had clone squad back-up or had to retreat. The closest example of a jedi facing extreme odds is Yoda having to use hit and run tactics when he was facing odds of 100 to 1 against idiotic droids.

Oh come on. They didn't even have tanks in that arena.

Ani's facing 300 highly trained warriors who are not idiots.

The Spartans have zero feats for not being idiots.

So yeah, he will have to dodge thrown spears and deal with 300 Captain America stand ins who don't just stay in phalanx formation and wait.

Doesn't seem all that impressive to a Sith Lord. Dodging/blocking 300 spears seems casual, I doubt all 300 even have a spear. Most of them just seemed to have a short sword.

That's just it, if he's getting swarmed by these fearless warriors, he's likely getting cut or stabbed at least once. He's going to have to work to make sure the Spartans cannot swarm him. Given how well the Spartans work together, that's not likely.

Except they have no ability to swarm him. Even if the terrain didn't ridiculously favour Vader, a Force-user just has insane mobility on any battle field.

Again, feats for moving that many men with the force? While dodging or force pushing in place on a tiny platform that doesn't allow you to step aside one way or another while projectiles are coming at him from different angles?

Eh... Force Push is what he'd mainly be using to move them. And who said it was a tiny platform he picked to stand on?

[Basara]

OK, I've not got involved so far, but a couple of things:

1) Jedi deal with deflecting multiple blaster bolts all the time. Blaster bolts have two distinct advantages over thrown spears. Firstly, they're much quicker. Secondly, when you've fired a blaster, you still have a blaster. That's not the case with throwing spears. You're then left with unarmed men (or men armed with melee weapons) rushing headlong at a guy swirling a lightsaber around. That won't end well for them.

Jedi block the occasional shot that comes close to them from horrifically inaccurate shooters, but have never blocked more than a several at a time. I can buy Ani blocking/dodging 20 spears, maybe even 50 spears. 300, from different angles thrown by warriors who know how to coordinate attacks so that they can strike when an opponent is distracted? I doubt it.

2) At what point did they become Captain America equivalents? That's one hell of a leap in standards. They're very impressive warriors, granted. But they're not Cap.

At the point when they'd break phalanx ranks and start cutting through Persians like a Jedi cuts through droids, using their swords, shields, and spears to great effect. They may not have Cap's speed and strength, but they certainly had movie Cap's melee fighting skill.

And yes, the lightsaber will certainly cut through shields, swords, spears, and Spartans with ease. I'm not denying that many, many Spartans will be dining in Hell before the fight is through. Maybe even most of them. I'm saying that the movie Spartans were vastly more skilled than most of the enemies that Jedi face, work together as a well oiled fighting machine, are fearless in battle, and have overwhelming numbers. Those aren't good odds, even for a jedi.

[Basara]

Oh come on. They didn't even have tanks in that arena.

That's the point. The droids/bugs didn't need tanks because they had overwhelming numbers. It's only when the jedi had support from the clones that they were able to escape.

Doesn't seem all that impressive to a Sith Lord. Dodging/blocking 300 spears seems casual, I doubt all 300 even have a spear. Most of them just seemed to have a short sword.

It honestly sounds like you didn't watch the movie. Every Spartan has his spear when they were marching with Leonidas.

Except they have no ability to swarm him. Even if the terrain didn't ridiculously favour Vader, a Force-user just has insane mobility on any battle field.

So, Ani won't be trying to come close to kill them in melee combat if he somehow makes it to ground? Come on.

Eh... Force Push is what he'd mainly be using to move them. And who said it was a tiny platform he picked to stand on?

The original poster. Or did you forget the scenario? Ani starts on the tiny platform.

[Carabas]

That's the point. The droids/bugs didn't need tanks because they had overwhelming numbers. It's only when the jedi had support from the clones that they were able to escape.

That's like the only moment in the history of Star Wars whereJedi didn't point and laugh at overwhelming numbers.

So, Ani won't be trying to come close to kill them in melee combat if he somehow makes it to ground? Come on.

He's going to do what Yoda did in that episode you mentioned earlier: hit and run attacks.

The original poster. Or did you forget the scenario? Ani starts on the tiny platform.

I was assuming he didn't have to stay on a tiny platform.

[Basara]

That's like the only moment in the history of Star Wars whereJedi didn't point and laugh at overwhelming numbers.

What? Jedi retreated from overwhelming numbers all the time in The Clone Wars. I've lost count of the number of times Rex pulled Ani's butt out of the fire every time Ani would get himself into too much trouble due to overconfidence.

The jedi weren't gods, as that series and the very next movie proved.

He's going to do what Yoda did in that episode you mentioned earlier: hit and run attacks.

I was assuming he didn't have to stay on a tiny platform.

He doesn't and that's the rub. The only place Ani has to go from the platform is exactly where the Spartans are waiting. Both staying on the platform and jumping into the midst of highly skilled warriors are bad options.

Can Ani get past them once on the ground without getting injured? Maybe. I would bet against it though, given the sheer numbers and skills the Spartans possess. A lightsaber and force powers can only do so much.

If it does happen though, you are correct. Suddenly it's the Spartans who face an uphill battle for survival with little chance of success as they hunt a man who can whittle them down bit by bit in a variety of extremely nasty ways.

[Carabas]

What? Jedi retreated from overwhelming numbers all the time in The Clone Wars. I've lost count of the number of times Rex pulled Ani's butt out of the fire every time Ani would get himself into too much trouble due to overconfidence.

Not from 300 dudes with swords that are trying very hard not to die from the boiling air they're breathing.

He doesn't and that's the rub. The only place Ani has to go from the platform is exactly where the Spartans are waiting. Both staying on the platform and jumping into the midst of highly skilled warriors are bad options.

Well, for starters, he can jump straight over them, and then Force Push a lot of them right off the shore before jumping away again.

Can Ani get past them once on the ground without getting injured? Maybe. I would bet against it though, given the sheer numbers and skills the Spartans possess. A lightsaber and force powers can only do so much.

Speaking about that Lightsaber... You realise that every attack he parries disarms that Spartan, right? And that if the'yre packed close, they're more getting into each others way than his, and that he's killing multiple Spartans with every strike? Assuming he lets them get that close.