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  1. #16
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I still say put Kenny Braverman in this role. With Death of Clark Kent having to be redefined because of so many differences now, there's every chance to say he's still alive. And since Metallo is back in a major way, Conduit as a villain becomes rather derivative (in fact I do believe Conduit was designed as a replacement for the Metallo concept which at the time was not being utilized). So reintroduce him as a man in prison but repentant, eventually gets loose and fights on the side of good now while still retaining his edge and a strained relationship with Superman.
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  2. #17
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    i'd say Prime. he was a young hero who went away and came back a villain. but in typical Superman fashion it happened on a cosmic scale. he didn't just murder a bunch of crime bosses and kidnap a few Teen Titans. Prime helped cause a Crisis and murdered a bunch of Teen Titans and Green Lanterns. when Jason came back from the dead he was kind of a whiny pain in the ass too. but he's had time to evolve and eventually be redeemed. i dont think there is any hope for Prime after all the people he killed.

  3. #18
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    Cir-el? 10 characters

  4. #19
    Fantastic Member Last Son's Avatar
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    If we include the Supergirls, maybe Matrix? I would argue that the various Supergirl and Superboy characters are the closest equivalent to Batman's sidekicks. I know that Matrix never became a villain but she had the least longevity of any supporting hero in the Super family, and she was the second character to carry the Supergirl moniker(unless you count the one-shot appearances of Supergirl characters before Kara was created).

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son View Post
    If we include the Supergirls, maybe Matrix? I would argue that the various Supergirl and Superboy characters are the closest equivalent to Batman's sidekicks. I know that Matrix never became a villain but she had the least longevity of any supporting hero in the Super family, and she was the second character to carry the Supergirl moniker(unless you count the one-shot appearances of Supergirl characters before Kara was created).
    That's not a bad idea, actually. Are we counting Matrix and Linda as one and the same?

    Also, what the hell ever happened to them? They got separated at some point, didn't they?
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  6. #21
    Fantastic Member Last Son's Avatar
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    I'm mostly thinking of the pre-Linda Matrix Supergirl but I guess the Matrix/Linda hybrid also counts. I would say the non-merged but still superpowered Linda would count as a separate character.

    Seems like a lot of the weirder post crisis concepts began to fade into the background once John Byrne's Krypton was retconned out of existence and Kara Zor-El was reintroduced. Matrix/Linda became redundant, the Eradicator no long quite fitted in since he was a product of that weirder, more dystopian Krypton..

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    I'd say that's right. It's a tragedy too- I may have problems with the post-Crisis reboot, but the universe that sprung up in its wake was both elaborate, detailed and consistent. The world that sprang up in its place was strewn with retcons and forgot about tons of great stuff that'd happened before.
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  8. #23
    Fantastic Member Last Son's Avatar
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    Well, as I said in another post, I think they can be kept but they might need to be renamed, or at least acknowledged in-universe as new versions of previous things. Like Matrix comes along after Kara Zor-El disappears or hangs up the tights and becomes the second Supergirl, or she simply goes by Matrix. And instead of being from a pocket universe, she's from "this" universe, created by Lex Luthor, or she's an alien lifeform(I was never quite clear whether she was created or found by pocket universe Lex).

    That's part of what I like about this latest reboot, it erases the dividing lines between New Earth and New 52. There was no history-altering event and instead the events of the New 52 happened in the New Earth continuity with a few differences. So likewise, you could say instead of there being a COIE, the events of the post crisis era simply happened after the events of the silver and bronze age. Lex somehow was acquitted/cleared of criminal charges and decided to start a corporation, or Clark makes the decision to be himself as Clark and embraces his human side more than he previously did. Maybe instead of Jonathan and Martha being his living relatives as an adult, he instead has Jonathan's brother Eben and his wife Sarah filling that role. I mean hey, you can be close to your aunt and uncle too.

    Sorry to veer off-topic btw, I tend to go on tangents about some of my ideas.
    Last edited by Last Son; 06-03-2017 at 03:27 PM.

  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member adrikito's Avatar
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    Bizarro, he is in the outlaws.. like artemis in ww world, I think..

  10. #25
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
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    Jason Todd had a once-serious-but-now-friendly rivalry with Dick Grayson:



    Could Bizarro have a similar relationship to Mon-El? Have they even met more than this one time?:


  11. #26
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    Jason Todd had a once-serious-but-now-friendly rivalry with Dick Grayson...

    Could Bizarro have a similar relationship to Mon-El? Have they even met more than this one time?
    I have no idea, but I love the concept. Jason and Bizarro are on a team now. Maybe Mon-El could join the Titans? Like Jason, Dick and Supergirl, he's part of that weird generation of sidekicks who exists before generations of sidekicks existed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son View Post
    Well, as I said in another post, I think they can be kept but they might need to be renamed, or at least acknowledged in-universe as new versions of previous things. Like Matrix comes along after Kara Zor-El disappears or hangs up the tights and becomes the second Supergirl, or she simply goes by Matrix. And instead of being from a pocket universe, she's from "this" universe, created by Lex Luthor, or she's an alien lifeform(I was never quite clear whether she was created or found by pocket universe Lex).
    You just brought up one of my favorite topics. See, pre-Crisis Luthor created a protoplasmic life form back in 1960 in Adventure Comics # 271! It knocked over some chemicals which started a fire, and the inexperienced Superboy tried to blow the fire out. The burning chemicals splashed everywhere, destroying the irreplaceable formula for the creature (which Lex did not memorize), and killing the creature itself! Also, Lex's hair follicles, but that was really secondary. Lex had just made his greatest discovery: he'd created life itself! Convinced that Superboy had killed the creature on purpose, out of jealousy for Lex's scientific genius, Lex Luthor devoted his life to being the anti Kal-El, which meant a life of crime!

    Superboy, for his part, didn't admit that he'd made a mistake until he was a grown man, and it was too late. He also refused to ever admit that the protoplasm was truly alive, and thus like the obviously sentient Bizarro he killed as a boy, did not constitute a break in his Code Against Killing. Good grief!

    However, in the Pocket Universe, Superboy died saving the Legion from the Time Trapper in Legion of Super-Heroes (Vol. 3) # 38, before meeting Lex! That meant that when he created the protoplasm, Superboy wasn't around to kill it, and it grew up (more or less) to be Matrix, thus proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that Superboy did kill not only a thinking being but a fellow super-hero in her infancy! I mean besides, you know, the doubts of authorial intent and nearly thirty years between stories, but ah, who cares about that crap?

    Anyway, gotta admit I wouldn't mind for Matrix to come back as a more regular character. I liked her a lot.
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  12. #27
    Incredible Member Black Angel's Avatar
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    i don't think there is anyone

  13. #28
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    No one fits, really.

    Linda actually comes closest to the 'Tim' role. She's the normal 1 with a family who isn't looking for revenge but just to help.

    And she's really the least redundant member of the super-family, having a completely different powerset and theming. When someone else comes along whose powers and theming are supernaturally based maybe you can call her redundant, but just having another girl around doesn't do that (in my opinion Kal already makes Kara redundant, but that's a separate thing).

  14. #29
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    Superboy Prime. If you can accept that from his perspective he's a hero.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigmanbud View Post
    Superboy Prime. If you can accept that from his perspective he's a hero.

    We could at 1st,but he is totally nuts and willing to kill anyone now,so he isn't Jason Todd if the Supers.

    Kon could be easily,his tactics could be harsh and to methodical for Superman,but still inside the "good guy" zone

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