[spoiler] Secret Empire 3

[The Cool Thatguy]

New Tian could be considered a new Utopia. After all, Utopia was founded to protect mutants from a racist regime.

It's just Spencer repeating himself from Ultimates. It'll be gone as soon as the crossover ends. Hopefully, though, it'll be used to buy mutants good PR, change things up for a bit

[Michael Watkins]

Hmm, that could be a good twist, but I think it's more likely that Otto will leverage his knowledge of Peter and his alter ego to discredit him in both identities and thus undermine Parker Industries.



Point, but considering Otto's one-sided devotion to Anna Maria, I doubt he'd allow her to come to harm at HYDRA's hands, and if that were to happen, it would be the one thing guaranteed to turn him against them and place him on the side of the resistance, if only to avenge her. I mean, this was the same guy who was willing to trigger a global apocalypse just because he was pissed that the Jackal (who turned out to be Ben Reilly) made a derogatory remark about Anna Maria's stature. You think he's gonna let HYDRA get away with trying to seriously hurt or even kill her?

I think it will happen in a way that allows Otto to blame Peter.

[Hulkout42]

I would imagine that we have to read the other comics to figure it out.

That being said, I'm still really liking this event. Especially that part at the end. Poor Boomer. I mean, really, why does it seem like the villains are holding it together better than the heroes?

Because Marvel has decided now that they have enough Hero VS Hero crap they should focus on villains like the thing with Kingpin.

[Huntsman Spider]

I think it will happen in a way that allows Otto to blame Peter.

It's possible. Otto's never been good at taking responsibility for his failings and misdeeds, and if he could spin it or have it spun in a way that would allow him to blame Peter instead of his current allies (whom he is admittedly only with out of self-interest), he'd probably take it that way.

[jackolover]

Why would an Ultron drone wear a Pym mask?

And why is it strange that Ultron would be involved with the search for the Cube pieces?

Conquest and power has always been a priority for him so getting a hold of an artifact this coveted wouldn't be a stretch for him.

Ultron wears a mask of his father because Ultron is a psycho. I can believe it after all the run ins Ultron and Pym have had.

Ultron not attacking the Avengers and just going to hiding to find a Cosmic Cube fragment seems a little out of character to me. Does Ultron have some issue with Hydra Cap in particular? And besides, how does an Ultron drone find out Kobik exploded in the atmosphere and go find a piece? He doesn't have the whole Cosmic Cube. Is he waiting for Steve Rogers to come and negotiate a trade of some sort? Doesn't sound like Ultron, but sounds more like a Pym/Ultron, to get back at Hydra Cap for being so offhanded to him the last time they met.

[jackolover]

I honestly cannot tell who is who in this comic unless they are wearing an identifiable costume. The faces Sorrentino uses rarely even resemble the character. (Boomerang looked nothing like he has in the past, and the red shades screamed Scott Summers or Matt Murdock).

Nick Spencer's first vol Secret Avengers #2 (just after Fear Itself), had a vision of the future which included Gorgon, Kobik, someone looking at a tentacle coming out of their arm, and some naked woman bathing in red fluid, so Spencer has been laying tracks for Secret Empire for years now.

[jackolover]

It was certainly the first big event which began the hero divide. Ultimately, Marvel had built up the universe reset (and, yes, it was one, only that they didn't ditch old continuity, they just melded new components into it) for years, with hints here and there that the time continuum was getting screwed worse and worse. I might be wrong that Civil War was the focal point where it all started, but it's not just Hickmans story, rather one told through years and years of build-up in different titles.

I can certainly pinpoint a super hero divide, and much more than that (a sudden government cynicism to super humans) to Civil War and Secret Wars continuing into Secret Empire. I still think CWI's tentacles are reaching into the future, because it hasn't been reconciled. Normal people in the MU don't trust super humans now, to the extent something like Secret Empire just brings out the hatred that's been building ever since. You can't see a time when normals will lay down that scepticism and need for super heroes to justify their existence. Everything they do is scrutinised now, whereas back before the new millennium, super heroes were not just tolerated, but respected. One thing after another is causing what little respect they had to be whittled away. It may not be the super humans fault, but there seems to be a glut of them sweeping the Earth, and that is going to give the normal folk a scare that more and more trouble follows them around. You almost see the normals equate super humans with terrorism now.

[jackolover]

Yes, it is a stretch. Frank is neither willing to kill civilians, especially children, himself, nor is he willing to overlook it in allies. Every Hydra agent who shoots or sends a missile at civilians is just another murderer in his eyes.

I wonder if Frank does retaliate as you suggest? I tend to think Frank stays close to his wheelhouse of criminality. Just because Clint Barton killed Bruce Banner, doesn't mean Frank should kill Clint.

As far as Frank may be concerned, the government was doing a terrorist cleanup operation in Las Vegus. Does he make War with the government, kill Clint Barton, and act upon any other accusation that Spider-Man is a murderer? Where does Frank draw the line?

[jackolover]

last thing I read, the War Thor was showing up. Bill had given Thor a pep talk; told him that he was more than the hammer. Odinson still seems to believe what Gorr said. him not claiming the ultimates hammer (to me) just suggests that he's still feeling like a loser. this could all be about him showing humility. Steve can lift the hammer. he can't, yet. I can't say much more until I see what transpires between War Thor and Odinson.

I remember Apocalypse saying Thor was "unworthy" because Thor went and got a spell, with Loki's help, to make his axe cut Celestial armour, against Odin specific wishes.

[Inversed]

Ultron wears a mask of his father because Ultron is a psycho. I can believe it after all the run ins Ultron and Pym have had.

Ultron not attacking the Avengers and just going to hiding to find a Cosmic Cube fragment seems a little out of character to me. Does Ultron have some issue with Hydra Cap in particular? And besides, how does an Ultron drone find out Kobik exploded in the atmosphere and go find a piece? He doesn't have the whole Cosmic Cube. Is he waiting for Steve Rogers to come and negotiate a trade of some sort? Doesn't sound like Ultron, but sounds more like a Pym/Ultron, to get back at Hydra Cap for being so offhanded to him the last time they met.

I would think Ultron wouldn't pick a side and would just want to mess with them all. Or hell, even give them the fragment and make them fight to the death for it.

[Michael Watkins]

Ultron wears a mask of his father because Ultron is a psycho. I can believe it after all the run ins Ultron and Pym have had.

Ultron not attacking the Avengers and just going to hiding to find a Cosmic Cube fragment seems a little out of character to me. Does Ultron have some issue with Hydra Cap in particular? And besides, how does an Ultron drone find out Kobik exploded in the atmosphere and go find a piece? He doesn't have the whole Cosmic Cube. Is he waiting for Steve Rogers to come and negotiate a trade of some sort? Doesn't sound like Ultron, but sounds more like a Pym/Ultron, to get back at Hydra Cap for being so offhanded to him the last time they met.

wasn't Ultron a space king of some sort during or before Annihilation? that doesn't seem very Ultron-y, to me. but it happened. Ultron might be bidding his time because Hydra is pretty much already destroying the world/harming the avengers. there's not a real opportunity for him to do anything, just yet. and it's only logical to retrieve the cosmic cube fragment. he'd be aware of it because he, undoubtedly, already spies on much of the world.

[Michael Watkins]

Nick Spencer's first vol Secret Avengers #2 (just after Fear Itself), had a vision of the future which included Gorgon, Kobik, someone looking at a tentacle coming out of their arm, and some naked woman bathing in red fluid, so Spencer has been laying tracks for Secret Empire for years now.

yeah, I tried to reference that in my other thread. it's the basis for me thinking that Elisa has a second monstrous form; although that tentacle might belong to Hive.

[jackolover]

wasn't Ultron a space king of some sort during or before Annihilation? that doesn't seem very Ultron-y, to me. but it happened. Ultron might be bidding his time because Hydra is pretty much already destroying the world/harming the avengers. there's not a real opportunity for him to do anything, just yet. and it's only logical to retrieve the cosmic cube fragment. he'd be aware of it because he, undoubtedly, already spies on much of the world.

It would be nice to see that back story of Ultron spying on mankind.

[Vegeta]

Nick Spencer's first vol Secret Avengers #2 (just after Fear Itself), had a vision of the future which included Gorgon, Kobik, someone looking at a tentacle coming out of their arm, and some naked woman bathing in red fluid, so Spencer has been laying tracks for Secret Empire for years now.

That's nice... Not sure what that has to do with the comment about artwork I made that you quoted me above.

[Michael Watkins]

That's nice... Not sure what that has to do with the comment about artwork I made that you quoted me above.

might have been replying to me. i mentioned the panel in another thread.