[spoiler] Secret Empire 3

[protege]

Don't buy the Punisher thing for a frickin' second at all. People say he's a Captain America fanboy and that he sided with him in Civil War. Well that's true, but let's also remember the big thing in that comic. Two villains tried to join Cap's side during that event and Punisher shot them both dead. Sorry, even if he's a fan of Cap, he's not going to just let mass murderers, psychopaths, Nazis, and more just walk by him, especially after Las Vegas went boom, unless he's playing the long game.

Sorry folks, but that ending is a load of crap unless there's a double twist.


Also, someone brought this up somewhere else, why is Black Widow training kids to kill? Wasn't her last series about her saving kids from that fate?

Makes me wonder if the punisher is gonna go after cap once they hit the reset button.

[protege]

I think the reason wade is remaining loyal to Steve and his hydra forces is because of not only what he did in killing (SPOILER for deadpool #31) but he killed agent coulson he did this because Steve ordered the kill to prevent coulson from revealing the truth also so wade could prove his loyalty to Steve and hydra, this was I believe shortly before secret empire #0 also I think wade feels that just by the fact of what he did in taking a life that he can't come back from what he did but also the fact that he feels like he's in too deep.

Coulson's dead again?!����

[Rosebunse]

Kind of ironic that two mercenaries are both "cap fanboys."

A ton of people are Cap fanboys. That's really what's screwing up the heroes and everyone here.

I think the reason wade is remaining loyal to Steve and his hydra forces is because of not only what he did in killing (SPOILER for deadpool #31) but he killed agent coulson he did this because Steve ordered the kill to prevent coulson from revealing the truth also so wade could prove his loyalty to Steve and hydra, this was I believe shortly before secret empire #0 also I think wade feels that just by the fact of what he did in taking a life that he can't come back from what he did but also the fact that he feels like he's in too deep.

Wade was also thinking of how he compared to the dead Logan. Let's remember, Wade's "rise" in the past few years was kick-started by his involvement with Wolverine's X-Force. Poor Deadpool thinks that he's doing the "tough" stuff that Logan did.

[Kurolegacy]

Jeez this event just gets more cynical by the issue. Secret Wars was about the multiverse ending and the heroes finding themselves on a world where Doom was revered as God with no idea if everything could be returned to how it was and that was still more hopeful than this. The characters all are so cynical, that I'm finding myself more apathetic towards this event than anything else.

[Silver Fang]

She's still not treating the kids exactly as bad as she was treated. This isn't X-Force where Laura and Elixir were forced into black-ops missions. Widow thinks that it'll all be worth it if she can stop this madness and kill Cap.

As for Punisher, that is a question...There's some speculation that Deadpool will betray Cap, but as for now, we don't know.

Well solicits point to Deadpool betraying Cap. Solicits for Deadpool 35, plus the cover.

Deadpool’s sided with Hydra for too long... but no more!

• He’s totally going to turn things around and take down Steve Rogers!

• He’s going to put a stop to this whole Secret Empire once and for all!

• Yeah…that’s the ticket…

And the cover
https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net...20170524031452

So seems Deadpool will eventually try to correct his BAD mistake, but fail. Given the sarcastic sign in the background.

But given what he does in 31, he's already sank himself and this will be the start of Preston's complete hatred of him. DP 2099 she mentioned she used to hate Deadpool after the Avengers when he hurt her more than anyone ever did. So this is the starting point, plus him having the nerve to try something with Ellie, which he and Preston are gonna come to blows about in 33 - 34.

I keep remembering this quote. But I don't know if it's already been said, or if it's an upcoming one. Someone tells Wade that when Cap says jump, he doesn't even ask how high, he just jumps. So Wade has blindly trusted Cap -the WRONG person, and put himself on the wrong side again.

spoilers:

Hell, he killed Coulson, THEN asked Cap what it was about once the man was already dead. It's too late to try and look into things then.

end of spoilers

So bad as things are gonna be for him, he kinda has it all coming.

[Rosebunse]

Jeez this event just gets more cynical by the issue. Secret Wars was about the multiverse ending and the heroes finding themselves on a world where Doom was revered as God with no idea if everything could be returned to how it was and that was still more hopeful than this. The characters all are so cynical, that I'm finding myself more apathetic towards this event than anything else.

I mean, at least Doom was really doing a pretty good job of running Battleworld when you think about it. And in that, the heroes were still heroes. You saw them trying to save people and do the right thing right up until the end.

Well solicits point to Deadpool betraying Cap. Solicits for Deadpool 35, plus the cover.

Deadpool’s sided with Hydra for too long... but no more!

• He’s totally going to turn things around and take down Steve Rogers!

• He’s going to put a stop to this whole Secret Empire once and for all!

• Yeah…that’s the ticket…

And the cover
https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net...20170524031452

So seems Deadpool will eventually try to correct his BAD mistake, but fail. Given the sarcastic sign in the background.

But given what he does in 31, he's already sank himself and this will be the start of Preston's complete hatred of him. DP 2099 she mentioned she used to hate Deadpool after the Avengers when he hurt her more than anyone ever did. So this is the starting point, plus him having the nerve to try something with Ellie, which he and Preston are gonna come to blows about in 33 - 34.

I keep remembering this quote. But I don't know if it's already been said, or if it's an upcoming one. Someone tells Wade that when Cap says jump, he doesn't even ask how high, he just jumps. So Wade has blindly trusted Cap -the WRONG person, and put himself on the wrong side again. So bad as things are gonna be for him, he kinda has it all coming.

Poor Wade. The thing is, he really has been trying to be good, and he's even found actual acceptance in the hero community. And now it'll be interesting to see him and Cap come back from this.

[CrimsonEchidna]

Maybe you two right but I always figured Frank had a code and as much as he admires Cap he would never work for Nazis or Hydra while people and children are put into prisons or concentration camps. And I also believe anyone who has met Steve would question whether he's helping Hydra without some kind of mind control at last.

You could argue that Steve "purging" Hydra of it's Nazi roots and more or less going to Castle's way of doing things of enforcing peace with an iron fist would be enough to win him over.

[Knives]

You could argue that Steve "purging" Hydra of it's Nazi roots and more or less going to Castle's way of doing things of enforcing peace with an iron fist would be enough to win him over.

Maybe but still find it hard to believe that the Punisher that I know would be on Steve's side after the massacre of thousands of civilians .

But would also never expect to see Peter Parker make a deal with the devil or Clint killing a friend so maybe I'm wrong in the end .

[Haquim]

About the Punisher: I think part of the problem here is there's several versions of Frank Castle's as a character. Some authors even portrayed him as a serial killer or a psychopath, some others gave us more honorable versions of Frank but I don't think Spencer's going that way with the character.
That said it's important to remember how Captain Hydra won: he engineered 3 crises and then "solved" them. One of those was the Masters of Evil invasion of New York. What most people don't know is the Master of Evil worked for Steve. He used them, had them teleport away and then sealed New York. The general public doesn't know they work for him. So it's very possible Castle doesn't either. Bad guys are working for Hydra and are known for sure, Taskmaster and Black Ant for example, but those were actually working for the "good guys" a lot in the past (just remember the Initiative and Thunderbolts) so it stands to reason a person like Frank Castle can buy Cap's propaganda especially when crime decreases dramamtically, lethal force is allowed and widespread and he's given free rein to bring his particular brand of "justice" to criminals.
That doesn't mean he won't oppose Cap once he realizes what's really happening but from the point of view of someone like Castle Cap's results and "vision" should be extremely pleasing.

[cc008]

I gotta say... as someone who considers themselves a Punisher fan.. my interest is piqued. I wasn't reading the event before, but I may start.

I've never had a problem with the story of Cap being a Hydra Agent. It's a comic story. OBVIOUSLY it'll be undone. Cap a permanent Hydra Agent? Okay.

But Punisher?! He's the one man even less likely than Cap to work for Hydra. I'm interested in how this happened and I'm interested in where it goes.

I won't curse writers, make death threats, swear off Marvel (I'm not saying anyone here is either).. this has me interested. It's riled a bunch of people up.. because it's not more of the same. Pushing some boundaries around here is a good thing.

[Kintor]

Maybe but still find it hard to believe that the Punisher that I know would be on Steve's side after the massacre of thousands of civilians .

But would also never expect to see Peter Parker make a deal with the devil or Clint killing a friend so maybe I'm wrong in the end .

The revelation that the Punisher is working with Hydra is actually another nice parallel with Marvel 2099. When Doom took over the US in 2099 he recruited Jake Gallows, the Punisher of that time, to serve as his 'Minister for Punishment' in Doom's new regime.

Punisher 2099 was actually quite effective in that role, reforming the numerous private security companies into a single federal law enforcement agency. While as a matter of practicality, the age of legal responsibility was lowered to seven, allowing Jake Gallows and the Ministry of Punishment to embark on a bloody and widespread crackdown on crime, all officially endorsed by President Doom.

So, I don't think it's much of a stretch that Frank Castle would side with Hydra now in the Secret Empire. Because when you get right down to it, Hydra in power is tough on crime, they shoot first and don't stress about the paperwork. If Frank works hard he might even get promoted to a seat on Hydra's inner circle.

[Michael Watkins]

Kind of ironic that two mercenaries are both "cap fanboys."

why is that? I would imagine that most military men/women would be fanboys of Captain America. he fought one of the most famous wars of all time. I think it's stranger that Paladin sold him out so cheaply during the first Civil War.

[Michael Watkins]

still, Castle is going to murder a ton of Hydra before this is over. bet on it.

[Michael Watkins]

Well solicits point to Deadpool betraying Cap. Solicits for Deadpool 35, plus the cover.

Deadpool’s sided with Hydra for too long... but no more!

• He’s totally going to turn things around and take down Steve Rogers!

• He’s going to put a stop to this whole Secret Empire once and for all!

• Yeah…that’s the ticket…

And the cover
https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net...20170524031452

So seems Deadpool will eventually try to correct his BAD mistake, but fail. Given the sarcastic sign in the background.

But given what he does in 31, he's already sank himself and this will be the start of Preston's complete hatred of him. DP 2099 she mentioned she used to hate Deadpool after the Avengers when he hurt her more than anyone ever did. So this is the starting point, plus him having the nerve to try something with Ellie, which he and Preston are gonna come to blows about in 33 - 34.

I keep remembering this quote. But I don't know if it's already been said, or if it's an upcoming one. Someone tells Wade that when Cap says jump, he doesn't even ask how high, he just jumps. So Wade has blindly trusted Cap -the WRONG person, and put himself on the wrong side again.

spoilers:

Hell, he killed Coulson, THEN asked Cap what it was about once the man was already dead. It's too late to try and look into things then.

end of spoilers

So bad as things are gonna be for him, he kinda has it all coming.

the chances ofspoilers:

Coulson being dead by Deadpool's hand/gun are slim to none. Wade is too profitable for Marvel; riding the fence. it won't be long before we find out that what we saw was something else.

end of spoilers

[vitruvian]

About the Punisher: I think part of the problem here is there's several versions of Frank Castle's as a character. Some authors even portrayed him as a serial killer or a psychopath, some others gave us more honorable versions of Frank but I don't think Spencer's going that way with the character.
That said it's important to remember how Captain Hydra won: he engineered 3 crises and then "solved" them. One of those was the Masters of Evil invasion of New York. What most people don't know is the Master of Evil worked for Steve. He used them, had them teleport away and then sealed New York. The general public doesn't know they work for him. So it's very possible Castle doesn't either. Bad guys are working for Hydra and are known for sure, Taskmaster and Black Ant for example, but those were actually working for the "good guys" a lot in the past (just remember the Initiative and Thunderbolts) so it stands to reason a person like Frank Castle can buy Cap's propaganda especially when crime decreases dramamtically, lethal force is allowed and widespread and he's given free rein to bring his particular brand of "justice" to criminals.
That doesn't mean he won't oppose Cap once he realizes what's really happening but from the point of view of someone like Castle Cap's results and "vision" should be extremely pleasing.

Not after Las Vegas, it shouldn't.