Is Cyclops is a disappointment?

[butterflykyss]

The writer must be either a storm fan or an irrational hater.When has cyclops led many attacks against human and mutant alike.

Issue and scans needed

the storm hate is real. if you want evidence, look at when he placed all mutants in utopia, when he killed Xavier. these are instances if him promoting the separatist idea versus living and coexisting peacefully.

I think the notions of "Cyclops is a villain", and "Cyclops betrayed mutantkind" are really two different issues. Though I don't really believe either of them to be true.

After years of faith in Xavier's dream, Cyclops realized it wasn't going to work, not at the time, not wit the methods they've been using. Part of it is because they've been doing it for decades but the nature of the medium won't let the situation improve. Part of it is that Xavier says he has this dream for peaceful coexistence, but no plan how to get there, other than relying on the kindness of humans to accept them. Cyclops just decided to take a different path. He figures that someone needs to stand up for mutants, and that he can do that, but not while he's the public face for mutant kind. Aside from when under possession of the phoenix and being assaulted by every avenger, Cyclops hasn't intentionally caused destruction or hurt innocents. As the "betrayal" list shows, plenty of other heroes have turned sideways or against their teammates and everyone has moved on.

Essentially, Cyclops's betrayal and villainous acts are:
- Killing a man in self defense while possessed by a cosmic being. Xavier said he was going to shut Cyclop's brain down.
- Breaking out of jail, fleeing from authorities
- "That despicable thing he did" (that was actually Emma pretending he was there) was spun into evil acts by Medusa propaganda, and in essence resulted in only one death - and even that was due to inhuman interference.

Marvel keeps pushing this villainous side, but I don't see it.

I think you make good points but I think within the mu he comes off militant and like an extremists. in a world where mutants r feared his approach towards addressing this fear is not one that would ease said feelings.

I don't even like Cyclops that much but the dude had balls. To be honest the X-Men all have been acting like a bunch of pussies for a long time, DoX and IvX, even if terrible, just showed how most of the X-Men are happy to just kneel and take it instead of fighting.

I don't agree with some of Cyclops actions but he's certainly not a villain, that's just Marvel moronic propaganda.

I didn't care for how the ivx situation was handled but when they needed to fight they did. and that's something that should be respected. km

[Ezenwammadu]

How is promoting the separatist idea versus living and coexisting peacefully the same as attacking humans and mutants.

How can one co exist peacefully in marvel that is full of bigots where purifiers and rev william stryker are praised

[ExodusCloak]

That was a period where Cyclops balls dropped and Storms testes ruptured and became ischaemic.

[jpmst17]

this thread is laughable. he's not a disappointment and this reeks of jealous storm fans

[nx01a]

That was a period where Cyclops balls dropped and Storms testes ruptured and became ischaemic.

[anyajenkins]

So how long do we all think it will be until the inevitable and totally justifiable thread of "Storm is a disappointment..." shows up?

I'd say about an hour...

Just a brief point, remember when Jean came back, there was also the immediate retcon that she wasn't really dark Phoenix. So she wasn't just accepted back because everyone immediately forgave her, but because they thought it wasn't really her. Alright, proceed with the storm/cyke bashing... *siigggghhhhhhhhhhhh*

[Muffinman]

It isn't like when cyke moved the mutants to Utopia he abandoned all hopes of coexisting with humans. During second coming he had Betsy inform all the citizens of San Francisco to come to safety and had Rogue move all of them and the non combatants to the Atlantean compound. Also right afterward Cyke formed a street team protecting the citizens of San Fran both human and mutant alike. Though it wasn't shown on panel he spoke about it and it was seen in cover pages (this is where everyone was confused because it showed that lifeguard was on the street team even though none of us had seen her since x-treme x-men).

The mutants were moved to utopia for safety not because they thought they were xenophobic. At the time there was quite a few groups hunting them. I don't think moving them to utopia was forced segregation for the reasons you are perpetuating.

[butterflykyss]

How is promoting the separatist idea versus living and coexisting peacefully the same as attacking humans and mutants.

How can one co exist peacefully in marvel that is full of bigots where purifiers and rev william stryker are praised

I mean i liken it to what minorities in America (particularly blacks and Hispanics non-white) deal with. when people who are the majority live in a bubble not exposed to other races and cultures, misconceptions and stereotypes can lead to how some choose to engage with people who are different. this may manifest as fear in not wanting to interact with different people, or even violence. bottom line I'm a world where mutants are geared less his visibility is not for long to help.

[Ra-El]

not sure how this is relevant to Cyclops betraying mutantkind..





I do think people hold jean accountable for what she did and ultimately she returned to fight for those who were defenseless (mutant and humans alike).
Xavier was throwing dome taunts around but did it really need to end in his death? also people like to say Cyclops was possessed by Phoenix but he said he would do it again and he said this while not possessed l. Scott owes everything he was to Xavier. the least he could do was work to promote peace as opposed to being a mutant separatist. and working to avert war much like Xavier and ororo did isn't being pacifist. it's knowing when to fight and when not to.

He said that he did horrible things while possessed, and even if he didn't have control he acept that his actions had contributed to the situation and that he deserved be arrested. But that if he had to choose between undoing it or have mutankind back, he would choose mutankind. That is one of my favorite things about the character, he owned what he did, he didn't hide behind possession and regret like many other heroes before.

He only escaped from prison after become clear that the goverment was hoping to him getting killed in prison so they didn't have to risk he getting acquited in a trial, and that Captain America knew this and was willing to let it happen. Even then he only escaped after the mutant he met in prisonwas killed with the guards and warder cumplicity.

[Ezenwammadu]

But their is no willam stryker chanting blacks are not humans or purifers killing them. And at no time was black or hispanic population reduced to less than 250

Due to some reason you keep on forgetting that the move to utopia was borne out of necessity. Their population are down and marvel universe just made osborn their boss and coupled with the purifiers threat i believe that scott decision was proper and fits the occasion and circumstances he was forced into

[Muffinman]

Perhaps it is better to draw a comparison to an endangered species (oh wasn't that a major story line title) having their territory become a preserve or moving the species to an enclosure due to poaching and habitat loss as opposed to closing ones borders... that is unless it is a country where the population was less than 198 persons.

[butterflykyss]

this thread is laughable. he's not a disappointment and this reeks of jealous storm fans

he is a great disappointment. he tarnished Xavier dream. and what do storm fans have to be jealous of in context to cyclops???

It isn't like when cyke moved the mutants to Utopia he abandoned all hopes of coexisting with humans. During second coming he had Betsy inform all the citizens of San Francisco to come to safety and had Rogue move all of them and the non combatants to the Atlantean compound. Also right afterward Cyke formed a street team protecting the citizens of San Fran both human and mutant alike. Though it wasn't shown on panel he spoke about it and it was seen in cover pages (this is where everyone was confused because it showed that lifeguard was on the street team even though none of us had seen her since x-treme x-men).

The mutants were moved to utopia for safety not because they thought they were xenophobic. At the time there was quite a few groups hunting them. I don't think moving them to utopia was forced segregation for the reasons you are perpetuating.

separating mutants, even with all that was occurring, only reinforced fears and the narrative that mutants were up to no good. his ideas of separatism then may have not been fully xenophobic but they most certainly were after AvX.

He said that he did horrible things while possessed, and even if he didn't have control he acept that his actions had contributed to the situation and that he deserved be arrested. But that if he had to choose between undoing it or have mutankind back, he would choose mutankind. That is one of my favorite things about the character, he owned what he did, he didn't hide behind possession and regret like many other heroes before.

He only escaped from prison after become clear that the goverment was hoping to him getting killed in prison so they didn't have to risk he getting acquited in a trial, and that Captain America knew this and was willing to let it happen. Even then he only escaped after the mutant he met in prisonwas killed with the guards and warder cumplicity.

so if he didn't hide behind possession people shouldn't use it as a crutch to support him murdering Xavier.

But their is no willam stryker chanting blacks are not humans or purifers killing them. And at no time was black or hispanic population reduced to less than 250

Due to some reason you keep on forgetting that the move to utopia was borne out of necessity. Their population are down and marvel universe just made osborn their boss and coupled with the purifiers threat i believe that scott decision was proper and fits the occasion and circumstances he was forced into

see my previous point. this necessity to do so didbt negate the harm due to mass perception it cause as well.

Perhaps it is better to draw a comparison to an endangered species (oh wasn't that a major story line title) having their territory become a preserve or moving the species to an enclosure due to poaching and habitat loss as opposed to closing ones borders... that is unless it is a country where the population was less than 198 persons.

fair enough. I still think a good comparison to how people of color in the US have been treated in this country.

[Jokerz79]

Utopia was created when the mutant race was an endangered species why not set up a place for mutants to live where mutants haters wouldn't be able to kill off the last few mutants god knows the Avengers weren't going to defend the Mutants the rest of the Marvel Universe has always ignored the mutant plight even when serving with Mutants or having mutants in their families like Franklin Richards. Every action Cyclops did it was about protecting and restoring the mutant race when the rest of the X-Men would sit by and accept what was happening. Is Cyclops considered a Mutant terrorist in the Marvel Universe? Yes the irony is to the general public of the Marvel Universe so are the X-Men.

[Revoirver2]

I don't like Cyclops;

but I read his actions in Messiah Complex, Messiah War, Secong Coming, Secret Invasion Tie-in, Fear it self tie-in, Dark reign I don't think he a disappointment. in fact he is a good leader.

[Alan2099]

I think killing Xavier wasn't an isolated incident that made him completely irredeemable. I think it was more the moment when even the people that had been giving him the benefit of the doubt could no longer deny how horrible he had become.

Pretty much since the whole "No More Mutants" thing, Cyclops had been on a slow slide into villainy. His methods were increasingly brutal, extreme, and confrontational, his outlooks more racist and his attitude far more egotistical.