OMD, 10 Years Later--Was It Worth It?

[comicscollector]

Yes,it was well worth it.
Creatively speaking the stories of Amazing Spider-Man have not been this good in many years.
But i would say it is obvious that a change of status quo that was lasting for over twenty years could not be anything else that a improvement over the stories.
Because who wants to read stories about a super hero that keeps being in the same Status Quo forever?Not me.

[UnknownEntity]

Hardly. The past ten years have been nothing special. All stories would've been easily made with a married Spider Man. Marvel made an issue of that positive development and tried incessantly to get rid of it instead of embracing it. When Marvel finally embraced in JMS' run, it was one of the best Spidey runs ever with the best characterization.

The method by which the current status quo was achieved (OMD, Devil Deal, Demon Divorce, Demon Abortion) was atrocious and the means should always justify the ends. The path taken to reach a destination does matter. Because of how OMD was structured and told, and even the plot devices used in the story (devil deal, ultimately unnecessary breakup), the end result was achieved the wrong way and till this day its a topic for relentless discussion and ranting.

If Marvel had stopped making an issue of the spider marriage and accepted it as a positive development, we would've seen more positive and memorable and generally good stories overall without Spider Man and Mary Jane having been deconstructed and character assassinated.

[Miles To Go]

Creatively speaking the stories of Amazing Spider-Man have not been this good in many years.

Not one of these stories required the marriage to be disposed of, and it actually would have enhanced them more if it were included. Also, I disagree with the notion the books have been consistent. With the exception of a few events here and there, all we're getting are stories that are thoroughly against the core themes of the character.

But i would say it is obvious that a change of status quo that was lasting for over twenty years could not be anything else that a improvement over the stories.

Funny, or perhaps telling, that you won't even bother elaborating on why it's an improvement.

That status quo has prevailed for thirty years in other mediums, and what's been done with in those mediums have shown it still has legs and has in some cases led to more entertaining stories that have enhanced the Peter and MJ partnership.

Because who wants to read stories about a super hero that keeps being in the same Status Quo forever?Not me.

A good thing you don't speak for me or others then is'nt it?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

As Renew Your Vows has proven, there are ways to keep one status quo and use it to springboard you directly into a fresh one without compromising characters.

[Metamorphosis]

Yeah, JMS' run should have ended with Book of Ezekiel in my view. He had told every good story he had by that point, and what we got next was just a well characterized dive off a very steep cliff leading to a bottomless pit we're still tumbling down

I see this type of thing posted often around here, and I don't agree at all with this conventional wisdom, sorry. The back half of JMS ASM has several great stories. Chief among them is Back In Black itself.

JMS seemed to understand how to write Peter Parker in a way I don't think any of the current writers at Marvel ever will or ever could. And his is thus far the last truly classic run on ASM, IMO.

Hardly. The past ten years have been nothing special. All stories would've been easily made with a married Spider Man. Marvel made an issue of that positive development and tried incessantly to get rid of it instead of embracing it. When Marvel finally embraced in JMS' run, it was one of the best Spidey runs ever with the best characterization.

The method by which the current status quo was achieved (OMD, Devil Deal, Demon Divorce, Demon Abortion) was atrocious and the means should always justify the ends. The path taken to reach a destination does matter. Because of how OMD was structured and told, and even the plot devices used in the story (devil deal, ultimately unnecessary breakup), the end result was achieved the wrong way and till this day its a topic for relentless discussion and ranting.

If Marvel had stopped making an issue of the spider marriage and accepted it as a positive development, we would've seen more positive and memorable and generally good stories overall without Spider Man and Mary Jane having been deconstructed and character assassinated.

Exactly this ^.

[Scott Taylor]

Yes,it was well worth it.
Creatively speaking the stories of Amazing Spider-Man have not been this good in many years.
But i would say it is obvious that a change of status quo that was lasting for over twenty years could not be anything else that a improvement over the stories.
Because who wants to read stories about a super hero that keeps being in the same Status Quo forever?Not me.

The writing since JMS has been more consistent, it seems, with a more controlled environment and less craziness. I'll say that much about it.

To many writers, it seems that the marriage was too much of a wild card for them to get behind like they needed to in order to create good stories. Also, it seems like the establishment at Marvel was continually fighting that status quo. Both of those factors lead to, at best, a more inconsistent product than when everyone is on the same page.

[UnknownEntity]

The writing since JMS has been more consistent, it seems, with a more controlled environment and less craziness. I'll say that much about it.

To many writers, it seems that the marriage was too much of a wild card for them to get behind like they needed to in order to create good stories. Also, it seems like the establishment at Marvel was continually fighting that status quo. Both of those factors lead to, at best, a more inconsistent product than when everyone is on the same page.

I get that. But that infighting and reluctance to accept the marriage development instead embracing it is also what led to that. It was a positive development that really stood to enhance the character of Spider Man and it did. I also don't see how said marriage would've disrupted any story wanting to be told because the only thing the marriage prevented was Peter sleeping or dating other girls and since MJ is hands down the best love interest for him, it was better for it. Even with the infighting about the idea of the spider marriage, said element also enhanced ASM and left a massive impression upon fans as you can tell by the incessantly non stop demands of the pro marriage crowd. Just imagine the spider marriage status quo without the opposition against it in this more controlled and less crazy scenario. It would've been great. The current Spider Man run and status quo is pretty average with more style and flash than depth and substance and no long term development introduced or lasting given the climate of Marvel constantly changing things up for the sake of being different.

[TheCape]

The writing since JMS has been more consistent, it seems, with a more controlled environment and less craziness. I'll say that much about it.

Eh, beyond the whole "Totem" thing i don't remenber much crazyness in that period (2001-2005). For the most part is what you would expect from Spider-Man, who just happened to be married.
As for the last 10 years, yeah it has been consistent, but we have the same writer for Amazing Spiderman for the last 7 years, so that is not unexpected. I still remenber how in the BND era, we have stuff like The Gauntlet that was just Peter doing his usual thing against his villains without any conective tissue beetween those encounters and the supporting cast was reduce to almost nothing.

[Carabas]

...because who wants to read stories about a super hero that keeps being in the same Status Quo forever?Not me.

So you do not mind bringing back an older status quo?

[Miles To Go]

The writing since JMS has been more consistent, it seems, with a more controlled environment and less craziness. I'll say that much about it.

Not sure if serious...

To many writers, it seems that the marriage was too much of a wild card for them to get behind like they needed to in order to create good stories. Also, it seems like the establishment at Marvel was continually fighting that status quo. Both of those factors lead to, at best, a more inconsistent product than when everyone is on the same page.

People say there were bad stories...but never elaborate what those ''bad stories'' were. MJ smoking? Sublime bit of drama that added tension and had a touching bittersweet pay off. The bickering during the Mackie/Byrne relaunch? Led eventually to the JMS seperation storyline that, again, showed an adult and layered side to the characters as they grew from the experience.


Many would argue the good outweighed the bad, DeMatties, DeFalco, Peter David, JMS, etc, some of the most memorable Spidey writers of all time, and they all developed strong stories that made fantastic use of the marriage, hence the popularity of it today ten years on, and why some writers have continued to use it even when confined to their own little corners.

Just imagine the spider marriage status quo without the opposition against it nt.

I don't have to imagine it. The newspapers and RYV are exactly this.

[UnknownEntity]

I don't have to imagine it. The newspapers and RYV are exactly this.

Well I already know how you feel about it. But that was for the other guy I was replying to.

[Metamorphosis]

Many would argue the good outweighed the bad, DeMatties, DeFalco, Peter David, JMS, etc, some of the most memorable Spidey writers of all time, and they all developed strong stories that made fantastic use of the marriage, hence the popularity of it today ten years on, and why some writers have continued to use it even when confined to their own little corners.

I think people are misremembering this era, and blaming some particularly bad storylines on the marriage.

Up to around ASM #365, the anniversary issue, the Peter / Mary Jane / Spider-Man status quo was strong and stable. But at the end of #365, it was teased that Peter's parents were returning. This marked the start of some desperately garish storylines in Spider-Man that were to come (the Robot parents crap, "Maximum Carnage", the "I Am Spider" stuff).

Then came the 90's Clone Saga and wrecked the books for years. It led people to overlook the late 90's, pre-Mackie / Byrne era, which was relatively stable but just generally unmemorable though solid era for Spider-Man.

Plenty of writers were doing good work with the marriage, as you point out: DeMatties, DeFalco, even Dezago over in Sensational, and Mackie himself wasn't half bad with it pre-99' reboot.

JMS, PAD, Sacassa, Millar, Hudlin and Fraction all proved the marriage could work resoundingly well in its final years, after JMS had finally reunited Peter & MJ during his run (Jenkins, though, wrote it terribly overall in his run I have to say).

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Yes,it was well worth it.
Creatively speaking the stories of Amazing Spider-Man have not been this good in many years.
But i would say it is obvious that a change of status quo that was lasting for over twenty years could not be anything else that a improvement over the stories.
Because who wants to read stories about a super hero that keeps being in the same Status Quo forever?Not me.

Because so many people think that Peter should be playing Tony Stark?

And erasing Peter's marriage kinda doomed him to being stuck in the same status quo: chasing after a flavor of the month. Plus, do you really think marriage is just one status quo of "happiness forever"? People don't stay in the same place in their life just because they're married. Being married only means you have a partner with whom to go through your life.

OMD wasn't worth the paper it was printed on.

[Scott Taylor]

Eh, beyond the whole "Totem" thing i don't remenber much crazyness in that period (2001-2005). For the most part is what you would expect from Spider-Man, who just happened to be married.
As for the last 10 years, yeah it has been consistent, but we have the same writer for Amazing Spiderman for the last 7 years, so that is not unexpected. I still remenber how in the BND era, we have stuff like The Gauntlet that was just Peter doing his usual thing against his villains without any conective tissue beetween those encounters and the supporting cast was reduce to almost nothing.

Consistency is sometimes overrated. I didn't say it was a definitively good thing to have consistency. Personally I am enjoying Scarlet Spider and looking forward to Spectacular, because they represent something different and good.

[Mister Mets]

Not sure if serious...



People say there were bad stories...but never elaborate what those ''bad stories'' were. MJ smoking? Sublime bit of drama that added tension and had a touching bittersweet pay off. The bickering during the Mackie/Byrne relaunch? Led eventually to the JMS seperation storyline that, again, showed an adult and layered side to the characters as they grew from the experience.


Many would argue the good outweighed the bad, DeMatties, DeFalco, Peter David, JMS, etc, some of the most memorable Spidey writers of all time, and they all developed strong stories that made fantastic use of the marriage, hence the popularity of it today ten years on, and why some writers have continued to use it even when confined to their own little corners.



I don't have to imagine it. The newspapers and RYV are exactly this.

People have been specific about the bad stories during the marriage.

Kavanagh's Web of Spider-Man.
The last year of Michelinie.
Maximum Carnage.
The Clone Saga.
The Mackie/ Byrne relaunch.
Reginald Hudlin's Marvel Knights Spider-Man.

There's more that was just meh.

[Metamorphosis]

People have been specific about the bad stories during the marriage.

Kavanagh's Web of Spider-Man.
The last year of Michelinie.
Maximum Carnage.
The Clone Saga.
The Mackie/ Byrne relaunch.
Reginald Hudlin's Marvel Knights Spider-Man.

There's more that was just meh.

But it wasn't the marriage that made these stories bad. You're conflating here.

Kavanagh--'nuff said there. Was anything he wrote good?

Last year of Michelinie: saddled with the editor's robot parents crap.

Maximum Carnage is what it is.

The Clone Saga was a mess.

Mackie / Bryne was a mess.

Hudlin's chapters of The Other were fine. He only did one arc besides that, which was indeed bad, but which had nothing to do with MJ or the marriage.

Plenty of meh post-OMD as well. In fact, there's an abundance of it.