OMD, 10 Years Later--Was It Worth It?

[Tuck]

But like you say, the old books are there with digitization & easy to access, now more than ever. Shouldn't be a problem for fans to dive or even wade into continuity.

It's out of date, and that much continuity is a high barrier of entry. It's probably a good chunk of why only a few notable incidents are "written in ink" as it were.

I think if the continuity is viewed as confining and stifling to storytelling, get better storytellers. Period.

They need to - as best they can - not retread old ideas and old stories (hence Superior and Parker Industries, etc.). Even with the soft reboot of OMD, BND covered a lot of the same ground - albeit in an updated way - as the Lee/Romita era.

As more and more events pile themselves into the continuity (with more and more falling into the "written in ink" category), it becomes like an old hard drive, more and more fragmented as time goes on and more and more unwieldy.

[WeirdSpider]

But Harry? FFS, what was the goddamned point of even bringing him back (or even Kraven for that matter)??

What was really weird about bring Harry back is that the writers seemed to base "Bland New Day" Harry off of the Sam Raimi version of Harry with him hating Spider-Man. Only this made no sense. Raimi Harry hated Spider-Man cause he thought that Spider-Man murdered his father, but in the BND verse Harry's Dad is alive so Harry really had no reason to hate Spider-Man.

[Metamorphosis]

It's out of date, and that much continuity is a high barrier of entry. It's probably a good chunk of why only a few notable incidents are "written in ink" as it were.

I came into it with around 25 years of stories ahead of my reading. There was no Marvel Unlimited, no comic shops around me then for back issues, no Wiki summaries and not much in the way of trades or OGN's. I was lucky to score a Marvel Tales here and there alongside ASM, Spec & Web. But filling in that missing continuity was a big part of the fun.

They need to - as best they can - not retread old ideas and old stories (hence Superior and Parker Industries, etc.). Even with the soft reboot of OMD, BND covered a lot of the same ground - albeit in an updated way - as the Lee/Romita era.

But one could say Superior was simply the plot of Kraven's Last Hunt (or even more modernly, the Red Headed Stranger arc of BND) drawn out to the nth degree. Horizon Labs was just the Tri-Corp Research Foundation from the Mackie era with more attention and time given to it, and Parker Industries was the same but with Iron Man plots glommed into it.

As more and more events pile themselves into the continuity (with more and more falling into the "written in ink" category), it becomes like an old hard drive, more and more fragmented as time goes on and more and more unwieldy.

Read Grant Morrison's Batman run and tell me continuity can't be used in a fun and insanely creative way, almost like a character onto itself.

[WebLurker]

What do you mean by Ultimate Spider-Man being one of the most anti-OMD comics? I thought the goal of OMD was to get rid of the marriage to make Peter seem younger, and Ultimate Spidey was still in high school. Hell, I always figured OMD would have returned Peter to a high school kid if editorial thought it was at all possible.

You're missing the trees for the forest here.

Why is USM anti-OMD? Think about how it handles Mary Jane. In Ultimate, she's Peter Parker's primary girlfriend and it's not-so subtly suggested that she's the only woman Peter's in love with "for real" (romantically speaking). It's also notable that of the three girlfriends Peter had, MJ was the only one that he ever rekindled the flame (more than once in fact) and that the breakups with the other two had the other parties come to the conclusion that no one was ever taking MJ's place in Peter's heart. Heck, at the end, she and Peter basically elope.

On top of that, she's one of the most important supporting characters through the series and arguably being one of the primary two people that anchor Spider-Man to the real world. Compare that to the post-OMD comics, which tore the relationship apart and phased MJ out of Peter's circle, eventually exiling her to the Iron Man comics.

So, yeah, USM may have a younger Spider-Man, but in many ways, he has more in common with his married counterparts then with the version being used in current ASM.

He [Dan Slott] penned the Secret Wars 2015 era mini, in a time when Marvel was revisiting all of their major past status quos. Big deal, it was a no-brainer for Marvel to do something like that at that time.

According to Dan Slott himself, it was a story he wanted to tell and he had to make the case to his bosses to do it. Now, the exact percentage of hyperbole in his suggestions that he had to traverse a minefield make it happen, I'm not sure. However, there's been nothing to suggest that Marvel would've commissioned the story or one like it anyways, so, unless any additional information comes up, I don't see any reason to disbelieve Slott when he says that the miniseries was his baby.

As far as it becoming an ongoing series like it has, he seemed virulently opposed to that.

The only time I've seen him actually comment on the series was in the context of an OMD/marriage debate and then only to say that his critics should be thanking him for the part he played in making it happen (given that the ongoing had a new team and it reimagined the series, I'm not sure how much credit Slott deserves, but whatever). To be totally honest, I've gotten the impression he's indifferent to it, at worse (and sales-wise, it's not like it's a threat to his series or anything).

Do you have a source for believing that Slott was against RYV becoming a regular series or are you just guessing?

[Miles To Go]

No. The fans have pretty much made themselves a laughing stock at this point.

Certainly the people on the pro-OMD side have regularly proven themselves to be a laughing stock with their juvenile and condescending behavior towards others. The very writer of the book is included among them.

[Bor]

Again, all those stories you mentioned could've been done easily with a married Peter Parker. Not a good reason to have him make a pact with Mephisto.



He penned the Secret Wars 2015 era mini, in a time when Marvel was revisiting all of their major past status quos. Big deal, it was a no-brainer for Marvel to do something like that at that time.

As far as it becoming an ongoing series like it has, he seemed virulently opposed to that.

Yeah when you make a statement like that I agree with other posters here who want an actual example to support a statement like that.
All I have ever seen Slott do is support that title and the creative team on it. Do you have actual evidence to the contrary or if this just another example of "lets hate on Slott and claim things all we want to because we dont like the current direction for Spider-man" ? I have never seen Slott even be slightly against RYW as a ongoing. If anything he has seemed quite happy about it.

[Prof. Warren]

Certainly the people on the pro-OMD side have regularly proven themselves to be a laughing stock with their juvenile and condescending behavior towards others. The very writer of the book is included among them.

Oh God, here we go again. What a surprise!

I guess the anti-OMD, pro-marriage crowd feel that living in denial, spreading misinformation, twisting facts, being openly rude to creators and other fans and making claims to being "real" fans don't quality as "juvenile and condescending." And nothing says "laughing stock" like being constantly wrong, right? Still waiting for the restoration of the marriage that some want to claim is just around the corner because "the writing's on the wall."

There really should be a ban on these boards for further OMD threads. There's more than enough of them, none of them ever go well, and all that needs to be said on the subject has been well-discussed by now. Anything further should just go into pre-existing threads. Just my opinion.

I'll abstain from any more OMD comments myself until at least the 15 year mark.

[UnknownEntity]

I don't know the specifics behind the creation of RYV, both the Secret Wars tie in and the current ongoing, but I do know that, obviously, every writer up at Marvel has to promote and shed positive light upon other books. Its a common business action. So Slott complementing the currently ongoing RYV is nothing out of the ordinary and quite expected. Just as Conway complemented Slott's ASM when he was doing an interview for the release of RYV.

[The Mary Janes]

No. The fans have pretty much made themselves a laughing stock at this point.

The classic "it's been almost a decade, let it go!" argument, I see.
Poor writing and putting characters out of their personality is mark of a poor writer (or writers) or at least poor decision making from the whole team. I can let the marriage go, sure, having Peter fool around with Bobbi or Felicia would be fun (oh, I forgot they also butchered Black Cat's character), but no one's forgetting the trainwreck.

[Miles To Go]

The marriage having never been out of print all decade means that letting go is pretty much an impossibility.

[Metamorphosis]

According to Dan Slott himself, it was a story he wanted to tell and he had to make the case to his bosses to do it. Now, the exact percentage of hyperbole in his suggestions that he had to traverse a minefield make it happen, I'm not sure. However, there's been nothing to suggest that Marvel would've commissioned the story or one like it anyways, so, unless any additional information comes up, I don't see any reason to disbelieve Slott when he says that the miniseries was his baby.

Not at all disputing that the RYV miniseries was "his baby". But the attitude by the writer that "you should get on your knees and thank me for doing the series" is preposterous to me, as it was sure to be a big seller and there was no risk for Marvel to do it at the time--alt U, tie-in to major company crossover, no other Spider-Man comic options at the time, and the sheer amount of hype generated by the promo image about 9 months ahead of time.

The only time I've seen him actually comment on the series was in the context of an OMD/marriage debate and then only to say that his critics should be thanking him for the part he played in making it happen (given that the ongoing had a new team and it reimagined the series, I'm not sure how much credit Slott deserves, but whatever). To be totally honest, I've gotten the impression he's indifferent to it, at worse (and sales-wise, it's not like it's a threat to his series or anything).

Do you have a source for believing that Slott was against RYV becoming a regular series or are you just guessing?

I remembered something along the lines of "the miniseries is all you're ever getting, be happy with that" type-statements by him, around the time of ASM Vol. 4 coming out, but I currently can't find the post.

[The Mary Janes]

Not at all disputing that the RYV miniseries was "his baby". But the attitude by the writer that "you should get on your knees and thank me for doing the series" is preposterous to me, as it was sure to be a big seller and there was no risk for Marvel to do it at the time--alt U, tie-in to major company crossover, no other Spider-Man comic options at the time, and the sheer amount of hype generated by the promo image about 9 months ahead of time.



I remembered something along the lines of "the miniseries is all you're ever getting, be happy with that" type-statements by him, around the time of ASM Vol. 4 coming out, but I currently can't find the post.

I think you're mentioning this post? https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/03...ays-dan-slott/

[Metamorphosis]

I think you're mentioning this post? https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/03...ays-dan-slott/

Well no, that was his pretty recent tirade about the marriage "never--Never---NEVAHHHHHH" coming back. Him saying the 2015 RYV was a one-off, and not to expect a follow-up or ongoing would've been from 2015 at best. I did a search but I don't have time to dig deeper right now.

[plasticman101]

"you should get on your knees and thank me for doing the series" posted by metamorphosis

wow so this is the juvenile reason why this thread and many others exist....so you take offense to the tone DAN SLOTT took, & is taking on RYV's ! there was no constructive discussion at all in this thread...if you are pissed be pissed but this makes you look 10 or Damien Waynes age! if I had a pic of him sulking I'd post it! lol

[WebLurker]

Not at all disputing that the RYV miniseries was "his baby". But the attitude by the writer that "you should get on your knees and thank me for doing the series" is preposterous to me...

Slott did seem to be banking on the premise that he had a hard time getting the story approved in the first place with that. I could buy that he may have had to work hard to make the story happen (not so much the hints that he was risking his job or incurring the wrath of the Powers That Be by pitching an idea in the first place, but whatever). However, since the main context of what I recall him saying that was in the midst of a debate over OMD/married Spider-man/if Slott "understood" Spider-Man or was a good Spider-Man character/other related facets of the whole Marvel vs. fans fiasco on this issue, I think it was Slott primarily trying to deflect criticism for his non-RYV ASM work. While I do have a dim view if his interpretation of the mythos and opinions on what makes "good" Spider-Man stories and his online manners, I also think that he does get crap from some of his critics.

...as it was sure to be a big seller and there was no risk for Marvel to do it at the time--alt U, tie-in to major company crossover, no other Spider-Man comic options at the time, and the sheer amount of hype generated by the promo image about 9 months ahead of time.

Was it a logical place to tell this kind of story? Of course. It wasn't the only Spider-Man comic, though (Spider-Island and Web Warriors were also things). However, there's no such thing as a guaranteed sale. It's also very easy for the fanbase to get an inaccurate reading of how much influence they carry in the fanbase or how much demand there is for the stuff they prize. I've seen it firsthand with the Star Wars Legends movement. Heck, I've caught myself doing it.

I'm also not sure about the marketing. While the first issue did turn out to be the most-preordered of the bunch (and the series as a whole being the best-selling Spider-Man comic of 2015), I recall seeing most people seeing the teaser poster and thinking: "I don't trust Marvel not to pull a bait-and-switch or be using that as OMD propaganda." It seems like it wasn't until a description was provided and the issue actually dropped that it began to pick up supporters.

So, it's very possible that Marvel might not've chosen to tell the story without Slott asking to do it. It's something they've tried to move on from, there are other kinds of stories that could be told, there are multiple eras and setups for Spider-Man besides being married that have their influence and iconic material.

(I do find it interesting that it sold so well with marketing plan that basically boiled down to: "Peter Parker and Mary Jane are married again! Oh, yeah, there a kid and other stuff, but married!")

I remembered something along the lines of "the miniseries is all you're ever getting, be happy with that" type-statements by him, around the time of ASM Vol. 4 coming out, but I currently can't find the post.

That's not the same things as saying: "The series should not continue." Also, if that was made before the series continuation was announced, it would make sense that he wouldn't mention it.

"you should get on your knees and thank me for doing the series" posted by metamorphosis

wow so this is the juvenile reason why this thread and many others exist....so you take offense to the tone DAN SLOTT took, & is taking on RYV's ! there was no constructive discussion at all in this thread...if you are pissed be pissed but this makes you look 10 or Damien Waynes age! if I had a pic of him sulking I'd post it! lol

I think it is human nature to wonder about the "what ifs" and if decisions made had a better outcome than other possibilities do. However, I will concede that this topic does seem to bring out the worst in everyone, the consumers and professionals alike.