Superman killing

[kingmyth]

Its out of character for the Man of Steel, Has Superman ever killed a homicidal villain in the comics. Something like a last resort if nothing else can be done to stop the killer.

[Sacred Knight]

In the beginning he killed, or at the very least, didn't always save villains from themselves in situations that led to their death. That didn't last long though. Infamously, Byrne had him kill a pocket universe version of General Zod and his followers with Kryptonite. And of course he's killed Doomsday to the extent the creature can be killed a few times.

[kingmyth]

In the beginning he killed, or at the very least, didn't always save villains from themselves in situations that led to their death. That didn't last long though. Infamously, Byrne had him kill a pocket universe version of General Zod and his followers with Kryptonite. And of course he's killed Doomsday to the extent the creature can be killed a few times.

Interesting, So superman had what it takes to kill his enemies. Did he regret it?.

[Sacred Knight]

In the Byrne story, he regretted it immensely. He had such trouble with it he exiled himself to space for a period to deal with it. He doesn't enjoy killing Doomsday, but with that creature he realizes there is just no other course of action, as he's never encountered a means to incarcerate him long-term. Prisons don't work, the Phantom Zone doesn't work anymore, etc. Mr. Oz has his contained right now but I doubt that will last.

[Adekis]

Interesting, So superman had what it takes to kill his enemies. Did he regret it?.

Originally? No. In the 1930s and early '40s, Superman killed bad guys the way Atomic Robo kills bad guys. No blood, no guts, no second thoughts about it. There's a strip where the Man of Steel swims across the Atlantic and sees a U-Boat. Naturally, he plows right through it, ripping a huge hole in it and presumably killing the entire crew. As he swims away, Superman quips "That's my good deed for the day!"

It's not meant to be morally problematic. It's just a hero killing villains. Stand-ins for Nazis, in fact. Personally, while I understand why Superman's moral code developed how it did, a part of me will always wish it'd stayed as simple as in the beginning.

Now we go on to the mid '40s through the mid '80s, we start to get into the Code Against Killing, the solemn vow that Superman will never kill, and if he ever does he will give up his powers forever! Obviously this only applies to the pre-Crisis, Earth 1 Kal-El. The most interesting thing about the Code Against Killing, at least to me, is the number of times he fudged it, especially as Superboy. There's two big examples I always cite. The first is Bizarro, a being who clearly has comparable intelligence to a robot, and agency of its own to match. Superboy (rather callously) kills him, and then remarks that the creature was never really alive in the first place. Obviously false, since we just spent a full issue reading Bizarro's thought balloons. Later, the post-Crisis Superman would argue to Phantom Stranger that the ability to think defines life, but the pre-Crisis Superboy made no such distinction. The second big kill is Luthor's protoplasm, which he accidentally blows flaming chemicals onto. Again, he excuses himself with "it's not really alive", but again, post-Crisis retcons change the dynamic with a more mature approach to the issue. See, in the post-Crisis Pocket Universe based on the Silver Age Superboy's world, Kal-El died fighting the Time Trapper before he could meet Luthor and inadvertently turn his biggest fan into his biggest foe. As a result, the protoplasm was never killed, the chemical fire being put out with a simple extinguisher. In this timeline, the protoplasm grew up to be Matrix, the '90s Supergirl. Thus, not only did pre-Crisis Superboy kill an intelligent being in its infancy, but a fellow super-hero as well!

Of course, the "not really alive" excuse would be used time and time again throughout the Silver and Bronze ages far beyond those two stories, and even into the post-Flashpoint era to a limited extent (fighting Lexus the Devourer of Life. Who felt the need to haggle over killing Lexus the Devourer of Life!? But at least he killed Doomsday "Rip and Tear" style and barely broke a sweat until he learned he was infected.), but it mostly stopped during the post-Crisis period. I want to point out that in Moore's Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow, Kal does kill Mxyzptlk and face up to it without haggling. I argue that killing Mxy was an unequivocal good (and indeed the Legion considers it "his supreme hour") but Kal still gives up his powers in what I consider an act of self-indulgent foolishness. What if Mongul comes back from that black hole next week and slaughters the League because Superman isn't there! But I digress.

Post-Crisis, Clark executes the powerless General Zod, Zaora and Quex-Ul for murdering the entire planet Earth (in the Pocket Universe) as already mentioned in SacredKnight's post. However, though Clark regrets his decision he tries to carry on. Well, until he eventually decides to leave Earth over it in the Exile arc! Even though he has to delay leaving to help with the Invasion! crossover he still doesn't get the hint that Earth needs him. Anyway, while he's in space he swears to never kill again! But then he kills Doomsday more or less without hesitating, and intended to kill Hank Henshaw as well, the fact that it didn't work being more an unfortunate development than anything else. He also kills the Pokolistani General Zod as well as Imperiex, DC's Galactus stand-in. He doesn't enjoy it, he doesn't kill as a first resort, but he'll do it if he really needs to, if he really doesn't see another way to stop a threat and protect the people. That's the way he did it post-Crisis, and that's more or less the way he does it today.

[Knight]

Actually, Superman never killed the Pokolistan Zod. That Zod was killed when the sun turned back to yellow as he rushed towards Superman. Imperiex also wasn't killed, but rather his consciousness was used to re-create the universe which is what he wanted in the first place. It's explained in the comic. And no, he doesn't operate that way today. He has kept his no kill rule pretty well since vowing he'd never kill again. Doomsday gets a pass since he's a mindless killing machine. That'd be like me killing a very dangerous Grizzly bear.

[Last Son]

I'm perfectly fine with Superman killing if there's no other way to stop the villain from taking more lives or destroying the world/universe. I don't get the whole "there's always another way, but while I'm thinking of that way, more and more people are murdered" line of thinking.

[beetee]

The problem that I have with Superman killing is the issue of escalation. "If Superman kills X why doesn't he kill Y?". The tendency in comics (and movies) is to keep amping up villains psychopathology and their power sets. It starts to make killing restraints seem ridiculous. That's why The Joker stopped working for me. He's so Murder Crazy, Batman seems like an idiot for not snapping his neck and ending it all. (At least Gotham seems pretty unbelievable for not having the Death Penalty at this point).

[Ra-El]

I don't have any problem with Superman killing, I mean, I don't want him to goes on The Punisher level, hell not even on Green Arrow level, but sometimes the most heroic thing he could do is kill the villain. If he is put in a situation of killing some villain or let someone die, if he choose to let a innocent die for some code I would be disapointed with the character.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

As has been pointed out by several posters above, Superman has killed on several occasions, but as his powers grew to their more god-like levels, that stopped. Since then, he's only killed on a handful of times, against foes that were so immensely powerful, they not only didn't stay dead, they often returned even stronger.

Morrison even had Superman point this out during his last JLA story, stating matter of factly that in their line of work, death was rarely a solution and that the various forms of elaborate prisons they had to concoct were often more effective than simply executing them.

[Agent Z]

As has been pointed out by several posters above, Superman has killed on several occasions, but as his powers grew to their more god-like levels, that stopped. Since then, he's only killed on a handful of times, against foes that were so immensely powerful, they not only didn't stay dead, they often returned even stronger.

Morrison even had Superman point this out during his last JLA story, stating matter of factly that in their line of work, death was rarely a solution and that the various forms of elaborate prisons they had to concoct were often more effective than simply executing them.

Except they weren't. In fact, death is a lot harder to escape from than prison in the DC universe. Going with that, it's no big deal if the villains are killed.

Oh and not everyone killed by Superman came back.

[Adekis]

Actually, Superman never killed the Pokolistan Zod. That Zod was killed when the sun turned back to yellow as he rushed towards Superman. Imperiex also wasn't killed, but rather his consciousness was used to re-create the universe which is what he wanted in the first place. It's explained in the comic. And no, he doesn't operate that way today. He has kept his no kill rule pretty well since vowing he'd never kill again. Doomsday gets a pass since he's a mindless killing machine. That'd be like me killing a very dangerous Grizzly bear.

Zod wasn't killed right when the sun turned to yellow, he was killed when Superman elbowed him in the guts as he rushed him! Imperiex did in fact get caught up in the big bang and thus start the universe learning that he himself was the impurity he always sought to eliminate. Nothing about that statement includes or implies "Imperiex did not die when Superman sent him back in time"! Superman sent Imperiex back in time to die in the big bang and he died in the big bang. Everything else is fun philosophizing for comic book cosmology.

Kal also still tried to kill Hank Henshaw like I said, and again, Henshaw's villainous survival doesn't let Kal off the hook for totally intending to kill him-- nor is there a hook to be let off of for trying to kill a man to stop him from destroying the world!

Killing Doomsday still counts as killing- no amount of analyzing Doomsday's biology or psychology changes the naked simplicity of the situation.

Superman is a killer. He's not a murderer who kills unarmed people unprovoked, and he's not someone who kills when it's the easiest way, and he's not someone who kills for sport, but he's a killer. And that's not a bad thing when you look at who he's killed!

[_Feely_]

I'm not a fan of Superman being a killer.

I like him as the embodiment of, "There's always another way". Plus, it's fictional, so there is always actually another way.

But, hey, it takes all sorts...

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Except they weren't. In fact, death is a lot harder to escape from than prison in the DC universe. Going with that, it's no big deal if the villains are killed.

Oh and not everyone killed by Superman came back.

The various gangsters and Nazis the early rough n' tumble Superman killed certainly haven't come back, but Bizarro, Mxy, Zod and Doomsday have all returned from the dead.

Morrison wasn't referring to simple prisons like Blackgate, Arkham or Bellerive, that are essentially rovolving doors for super-villains. He was talking about the elaborate prisons they've had to concoct over the years to imprison the super-powerful baddies, like Krona, the Time Trapper and others. Killing someone Krona won't do much. He'll just come right back in a few years.

Morrison's point, thru Superman, was that killing didn't actually solve the problem of eliminating the threat, but does have a profoundly negative effect upon the heroes performing the executions, which is why it shouldn't be done. Every time you take a life, it takes its toll.

[JBatmanFan05]

I'm not a fan of Superman being a killer.

I like him as the embodiment of, "There's always another way". Plus, it's fictional, so there is always actually another way.

Yes, Superman is no killer for me. And shouldn't be. Always another way, and so well put that the genre always can provide other ways.