Proudstar brothers Appreciation thread 2024

[red winter]

I am a big fan of Warpath & Thunderbird aka James & John Proudstar I am looking forward to seeing the two in action this year looking forward to X-Men unlimited issue 121. Hope it will be a great story that may lead to a series for Warpath & Thunderbird.

[wlfking]

Are you a fan of Thunderbird's current outfit? I like it. If I recall correctly, it was done with the assistance of Native artists?

Were you fan of the brothers from the start or was this something that happened overtime?

Do you think James hangs with the Hellions at all now that they are back?

[Phoenixx9]

Happy New Year 2024 to the Proudstar brothers!

[Thirteen]

Longer post coming, because I love my Proudstar Bros, but in the meantime bringing this over from the Monet St Croix discussion - I thought the Warpath flight issue long settled...

Does anyone remember when James Proudstar suddently could fly?

FYI, Warpath was flying as recently as 2017's Weapon X-Force

.

He's barely been used this era overall though. He was in Vita's New Mutants but largely MIA outside of that

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Are you a fan of Thunderbird's current outfit? I like it. If I recall correctly, it was done with the assistance of Native artists?

Were you fan of the brothers from the start or was this something that happened overtime?

Do you think James hangs with the Hellions at all now that they are back?

I liked John's current outfit. I knew of them but became fond on them recently.

[Thirteen]

Are you a fan of Thunderbird's current outfit? I like it. If I recall correctly, it was done with the assistance of Native artists?

A interview with the creatives behind the big return of John Proudstar and they detail the significance of some of the native details of his costume. Writer Nyla Rose and Artist David Cutler are both of American Indigenous tribes.

[Technopriest]

Finally an appreciation thread after my own heart. Big fan of both brothers.

[Technopriest]

Are you a fan of Thunderbird's current outfit? I like it. If I recall correctly, it was done with the assistance of Native artists?

Were you fan of the brothers from the start or was this something that happened overtime?

Do you think James hangs with the Hellions at all now that they are back?

-I am, and yes, it was actually completely ddesign by creators with NA ancestry. I know a lot of people have some...reservations about the design, but I like it. It combines both of John's main backgrounds, his Apache ancestry and his military service. I am a huge fan of Cockrum's, but as much as I like Thunderbird's original costume from a design point of view, I can't deny that it has some problematic imagery. I prefer the current look.

-I have been a fan of Warpath for a long, long time, since his early X-Force days (I grew up in the 90s, I eventually discovered Claremont's 70s and 80s work). John came later, I really like the potential that he had as basically proto Wolverine (I think people forget that he was Wolverine before Wolverine had his rebellious personality, and made him look like a well adjusted team player). I think he has real potential to be the next Wolverine (not necessarily in popularity, but at least in filling that place in the team). The latest issue of Unlimitedis how he should always be written, the Steves nailed his voice and personality perfectly.
-I have a feeling that he doesn't. Even though he used to lead them, James was never particularly close to any of them, and he seemed to fit better with the NM/X-Force peeps. I think he probably spends most of his time with his bro anyways right now.

[Thirteen]

-I am, and yes, it was actually completely ddesign by creators with NA ancestry. I know a lot of people have some...reservations about the design, but I like it. It combines both of John's main backgrounds, his Apache ancestry and his military service. I am a huge fan of Cockrum's, but as much as I like Thunderbird's original costume from a design point of view, I can't deny that it has some problematic imagery.

Can you elaborate on the "problematic imagery"? Is it the red headband thing from the practice of White actors portraying Native character and wearing a headband to secure the wigs?
I like the new costume and agree with both the inside and outside reasons for changing, but it uses a lot of the same motifs albeit in different colors and configuration. Wonder if I am missing something else...
I wonder if James will wear any version of the blue/red with fringe costumes from their history or if he is sticking with his less culturally influenced looks that came later.

[Technopriest]

Can you elaborate on the "problematic imagery"? Is it the red headband thing from the practice of White actors portraying Native character and wearing a headband to secure the wigs?
I like the new costume and agree with both the inside and outside reasons for changing, but it uses a lot of the same motifs albeit in different colors and configuration. Wonder if I am missing something else...
I wonder if James will wear any version of the blue/red with fringe costumes from their history or if he is sticking with his less culturally influenced looks that came later.

Yes, the red headband is a big part of it, it has nothing to do with NA headwear and is a Hollywood creation that became popularized in fiction. It was a common element in the creation of native characters at the time, regardless of tribe affiliation, from Apache Chief to Spirit Iron Knife, but the rest always came across as very "WWE type of stereotyping". The new costume actually uses colors that are important to the Apache, especially teal, so it makes more sense. It also has some military elements that also makes sense given John's background. I wish they would move away from the 'Thunderbird' motif as well as it has nothing to do with the Apache (another holdover from the past and people believing that all NA tribes were the same and that they worshipped the same deities).
For Jimmy I prefer his modern costume (not the NM one but the red and dark blue). It fits him better and it also moves him away from design elements that have nothing to do with his background.

[Thirteen]

Imagine if Dave Cockrum's first design for Thunderbird had made it to print...

"While Thunderbird was destined to die right from the start, to show the readers that superheroes were vulnerable too and anything could happen in this title, the creative team still wanted to make sure that the character would have the right look. When Dave Cockrum handed in his original costume design for Thunderbird, everybody agreed that he looked more like an Air Force pilot rather than a Native American warrior. Ironically, much later produced flashback stories would indeed reveal the character to have a military background. Back in 1975, though, Dave Cockrum found a way to combine the functionality of the traditional dress found in Native American culture with the colorfulness associated with a comic book super hero. Uncanny X-Men #193, the 100th issue of the all-new, all-different X-Men, introduced a younger brother of Thunderbird, who wore a simulacrum of this costume for quite some time."

[Phoenixx9]

Imagine if Dave Cockrum's first design for Thunderbird had made it to print...

"While Thunderbird was destined to die right from the start, to show the readers that superheroes were vulnerable too and anything could happen in this title, the creative team still wanted to make sure that the character would have the right look. When Dave Cockrum handed in his original costume design for Thunderbird, everybody agreed that he looked more like an Air Force pilot rather than a Native American warrior. Ironically, much later produced flashback stories would indeed reveal the character to have a military background. Back in 1975, though, Dave Cockrum found a way to combine the functionality of the traditional dress found in Native American culture with the colorfulness associated with a comic book super hero. Uncanny X-Men #193, the 100th issue of the all-new, all-different X-Men, introduced a younger brother of Thunderbird, who wore a simulacrum of this costume for quite some time."

Oh no!

So glad this did not happen.

He looks like a plucked chicken, lol.

[Factor]

I’m hoping John joins the main X-team in the new era. I don’t think they gave his return the importance that it deserved, so it would be great to see him get a bigger focus.

[Thirteen]

Yes, the red headband is a big part of it, it has nothing to do with NA headwear and is a Hollywood creation that became popularized in fiction. It was a common element in the creation of native characters at the time, regardless of tribe affiliation, from Apache Chief to Spirit Iron Knife, but the rest always came across as very "WWE type of stereotyping". The new costume actually uses colors that are important to the Apache, especially teal, so it makes more sense. It also has some military elements that also makes sense given John's background. I wish they would move away from the 'Thunderbird' motif as well as it has nothing to do with the Apache (another holdover from the past and people believing that all NA tribes were the same and that they worshipped the same deities).
For Jimmy I prefer his modern costume (not the NM one but the red and dark blue). It fits him better and it also moves him away from design elements that have nothing to do with his background..

I recall there was also a moment where they were moving away from both the "Warpath" and "Thunderbird" names and were edging towards calling Jimmy "Pridewalker" but that never came to fruition.

I think that Philip Tan design from "Rise and Fall of the Shi'Ar Empire" is my favorite for James as well.


Though the choker and chaps look by Pollina X-FORCE holds a special place...

[Technopriest]

Imagine if Dave Cockrum's first design for Thunderbird had made it to print...

"While Thunderbird was destined to die right from the start, to show the readers that superheroes were vulnerable too and anything could happen in this title, the creative team still wanted to make sure that the character would have the right look. When Dave Cockrum handed in his original costume design for Thunderbird, everybody agreed that he looked more like an Air Force pilot rather than a Native American warrior. Ironically, much later produced flashback stories would indeed reveal the character to have a military background. Back in 1975, though, Dave Cockrum found a way to combine the functionality of the traditional dress found in Native American culture with the colorfulness associated with a comic book super hero. Uncanny X-Men #193, the 100th issue of the all-new, all-different X-Men, introduced a younger brother of Thunderbird, who wore a simulacrum of this costume for quite some time."

This is my issue though, the costume that Cockrum eventually ended up designing is no more "traditional native american" than the original. It's just a bunch of non-native people idea of what NA dress looks like based on stereotypes of the time, as much as I love the costume from a design point of view.