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[Mantis-Ray]

I honestly enjoyed this week's Avengers FoX tie-in more than X-Men, sadly. I didn't feel inspired to do a review thread of X-Men but considered doing one for Avengers.

I'm reminded McKay's X-Men emphasizes them being very moral. Carol at the start states their mission statement is to not be cops but more firefighters, with greater emphasis on the Avengers saving people. Later on after defeating the Ashen Combine Carol brings up the possibility of rehabilitation because she's not comfortable keeping them eternally jailed in stasis (even though the Combine are sadistic conquerors with no hope of redemption).

So its very antithesis to Duggan's excessively brutal X-Men where he has characters killing and killing in mass without remorse.

[Diammandis]

Heir of Apocalypse #2 Incentive Variant

[Wolverine12]

I'm reminded McKay's X-Men emphasizes them being very moral. Carol at the start states their mission statement is to not be cops but more firefighters, with greater emphasis on the Avengers saving people. Later on after defeating the Ashen Combine Carol brings up the possibility of rehabilitation because she's not comfortable keeping them eternally jailed in stasis (even though the Combine are sadistic conquerors with no hope of redemption).

So its very antithesis to Duggan's excessively brutal X-Men where he has characters killing and killing in mass without remorse.

I'm not saying that Duggan is doing a great job but this statement is leaving out a metric ton of context. They aren't just killing to kill, it's a literal war that Orchis started.

[jmc247]

I'm not saying that Duggan is doing a great job but this statement is leaving out a metric ton of context. They aren't just killing to kill, it's a literal war that Orchis started.

People are putting super hero values to a war which doesn’t make sense.

There is an error to the story and that is it having them act in the name of the X-Men and not as Krakoans.

[Wolverine12]

People are putting super hero values to a war which doesn’t make sense.

I agree with this, the X-Men haven't had a no kill rule for a long time now, I don't think that you have to have a no kill rule to be a superhero either. Thor kills, Hulk kills, even Cap killed when he was fighting WWII. I think most people would consider Thor and Cap superheroes, I can see Hulk not making the cut but he's a founding Avenger so I included him, there are a lot more Avengers that could be on this list as well.

There is an error to the story and that is it having them act in the name of the X-Men and not as Krakoans.

I don't even have a problem with it being the "X-Men" fighting the war, and in story Duggan made Krakoan/X-Men interchangeable when he had Kitty (and Cyke) tell all the mutants that could hear them "we're all X-Men now," and as I mentioned above the X-Men are not new to having to kill their opponents. This is just a personal opinion of mine, I'm not trying to argue your statement. I can clearly see why one would argue that the name "X-Men" shouldn't be used while fighting this war.

[jmc247]

I don't even have a problem with it being the "X-Men" fighting the war, and in story Duggan made Krakoan/X-Men interchangeable when he had Kitty (and Cyke) tell all the mutants that could hear them "we're all X-Men now," and as I mentioned above the X-Men are not new to having to kill their opponents. This is just a personal opinion of mine, I'm not trying to argue your statement. I can clearly see why one would argue that the name "X-Men" shouldn't be used while fighting this war.

I am not really speaking for myself. I said it because if they were doing it in the name of Krakoa it would have been easier to seperate war from super heroics for some online fans that are using 90s X-Men rules for behavior as their vantage point here.

Though at a larger level I don’t think many in the younger generation understand war as a concept. At its core it’s a state of declared hostilities that exist enabling two or more sides to kill one another until there is resolution.

[Mantis-Ray]

I'm not saying that Duggan is doing a great job but this statement is leaving out a metric ton of context. They aren't just killing to kill, it's a literal war that Orchis started.

I am aware of the context, still counting it.

The Avengers issue includes a moment where Scarlet Witch casually freezes bullets in the air and gives the shooters the mercy to surrender ending it quick.

X-Men has Polaris sick the fucking Brood on a space station and Nightcrawler teleports a guy into the vacuum of space with a huge-ass grin on his face.

Just because its a war doesn't mean you have to get off on the bloodshed.

[Icefanatic]

I am aware of the context, still counting it.

The Avengers issue includes a moment where Scarlet Witch casually freezes bullets in the air and gives the shooters the mercy to surrender ending it quick.

X-Men has Polaris sick the fucking Brood on a space station and Nightcrawler teleports a guy into the vacuum of space with a huge-ass grin on his face.

Just because its a war doesn't mean you have to get off on the bloodshed.

Exactly this!

Lorna smirking as she has the Brood devour people alive and Nightcrawler gleefully killing people is just sick sadism. Like those guys in Vietnam cutting the ears off the enemy and wearing them as necklaces. I don't think it would shock anybody, after seeing Lorna and Kurt behave like that, to see them rocking some sort of 'necklaces' of their own.

As someone who has had family and friends fight and die in REAL wars, it is offensive as hell to see people keep defending that behavior as just 'war'. Rape is often used as a weapon of war, so should we be okay with X-Men raping people as long as it's in the context of 'war'?!

I would almost be willing to bet money that someone, maybe several someones, will say: "As long as the person being raped is Orchis, Yes!"

And it is beyond disturbing that so many people who claim to be fans of heroes, and heroes like the X-Men in particular, now think like that.

[Johnrevenge]

Exactly this!

Lorna smirking as she has the Brood devour people alive and Nightcrawler gleefully killing people is just sick sadism. Like those guys in Vietnam cutting the ears off the enemy and wearing them as necklaces. I don't think it would shock anybody, after seeing Lorna and Kurt behave like that, to see them rocking some sort of 'necklaces' of their own.

As someone who has had family and friends fight and die in REAL wars, it is offensive as hell to see people keep defending that behavior as just 'war'. Rape is often used as a weapon of war, so should we be okay with X-Men raping people as long as it's in the context of 'war'?!

I would almost be willing to bet money that someone, maybe several someones, will say: "As long as the person being raped is Orchis, Yes!"

And it is beyond disturbing that so many people who claim to be fans of heroes, and heroes like the X-Men in particular, now think like that.

Yeah I agree. I feel it's extremely out of character. My problem is that it seems that the X-men are enjoying murdering people, no matter if they are Orchis or if they are at war.

[Shockingjustice]

So can anyone recommend good some modern day X-books? X-men 97' is making me want to read some books

[Factor]

So can anyone recommend good some modern day X-books? X-men 97' is making me want to read some books

The whole X-line is about to be relaunched in July, so that could be a good starting point.
There’s also the official comic book prequel to the show, they’ve already released one issue.

[Mutant X]

Exactly this!

Lorna smirking as she has the Brood devour people alive and Nightcrawler gleefully killing people is just sick sadism. Like those guys in Vietnam cutting the ears off the enemy and wearing them as necklaces. I don't think it would shock anybody, after seeing Lorna and Kurt behave like that, to see them rocking some sort of 'necklaces' of their own.

As someone who has had family and friends fight and die in REAL wars, it is offensive as hell to see people keep defending that behavior as just 'war'. Rape is often used as a weapon of war, so should we be okay with X-Men raping people as long as it's in the context of 'war'?!

I would almost be willing to bet money that someone, maybe several someones, will say: "As long as the person being raped is Orchis, Yes!"

And it is beyond disturbing that so many people who claim to be fans of heroes, and heroes like the X-Men in particular, now think like that.

On point.

I understand people like the characters and want to justify their acts in a fictional universe.
But they are embracing radicalized speeches and not even seeing it.

[Itchpfork]

Yeah I agree. I feel it's extremely out of character. My problem is that it seems that the X-men are enjoying murdering people, no matter if they are Orchis or if they are at war.

Duggan made it weird. There's really no other way of putting it. It's kind of funny because he's nominally on the polar opposite end of the political spectrum from Frank Miller, and yet this last arc of his reminds me of that part in The Dark Knight Strikes Again (the universally panned sequel to DKR) where Hawkboy smashes Luthor's head in with a flail and Batman just stands there and laughs. "HAH! THAT WAS GREAT, KID!"

Someone else already said it, but there shouldn't be any coming back from this. After this is over, Kitty's probably going to revert back to something a lot more like her classic "girl next door" characterization, and I guess everyone will have to pretend she didn't spent like six months of her life remorselessly murdering enemy operatives.

[Jackraow21]

Heir of Apocalypse #2 Incentive Variant

Nice. I dig it. Makes me even more curious as to where Bishop and Cable will end up in the new era, if anywhere. Feels like Bishop at least will land someplace, considering he's on the team in the new cartoon and is probably the most high profile black male X-man. No as sure about Cable. If he doesn't make Forge's X-Force book, he's probably sidelined for now... or possibly he's the Heir of Apocalypse... guess we'll find out soon enough.

[mugen]

Exactly this!

Lorna smirking as she has the Brood devour people alive and Nightcrawler gleefully killing people is just sick sadism. Like those guys in Vietnam cutting the ears off the enemy and wearing them as necklaces. I don't think it would shock anybody, after seeing Lorna and Kurt behave like that, to see them rocking some sort of 'necklaces' of their own.

As someone who has had family and friends fight and die in REAL wars, it is offensive as hell to see people keep defending that behavior as just 'war'. Rape is often used as a weapon of war, so should we be okay with X-Men raping people as long as it's in the context of 'war'?!

I would almost be willing to bet money that someone, maybe several someones, will say: "As long as the person being raped is Orchis, Yes!"

And it is beyond disturbing that so many people who claim to be fans of heroes, and heroes like the X-Men in particular, now think like that.

- during the Krakoa era, mutants had a law not to kill humans. As a result, humans took the opportunity to kill many mutants, capture, dissection and other horrors.

- jean gray to save the members of orchis because "the x-men are heroes they save everyone" result? orchis has to kill jean grey, kill the x-men during the gala and many innocent mutants.

- did the council vote not to kill orchis because they wanted to be lenient with the genocidal outcome? orchis destroyed krakoa, hunted, killed and deported thousands of innocent mutants all because of the "heroism" of the mutants.

How many innocent mutants have died because of the x-men who refuse to kill and play the heroes by endangering the mutants who cannot defend themselves and are the first victims of the heroism of the x-men who while the anti-mutant captures and kills civilian mutants, plays baseball proud to have played the heroes of the day while sparing those who want to exterminate them.

What should the mutants have done after the 50th extermination? arrest orchis and send them to prison so that they can escape and continue killing mutants quietly as has always been the case in each run,
it is not the x-men who are fighting but mutants from krakoa who lost their nation because of anti-mutant and because of their heroism, the x-men "died" during the gala they did not They didn't have time to play heroes.

The cliché of super heroes who don't kill and who send the bad guys to prison is so obsolete and ridiculous even more when it concerns mutants against genocidaires.

even if it's a fictional universe personally I find it disturbing for x-men fans who want to continue to see the x-men playing heroes with genocidaires knowing full well that it will end with a massacre of an innocent mutant at the end like this the genocide was not serious as long as the x-men continued to play the heroes.

I'm not sure that the civilian mutants hunting, capturing and torturing consider the X-Men and the Krakoan Council as heroes currently for letting Orchis and other anti-mutants destroy their nations and kill mutants.