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  1. #9991
    Extraordinary Member Master of Sound's Avatar
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    Now if this real Madelyne can kill-off the cheap Secret Wars version that came to the MU from Battleworld and her Bamf dragon, I would be really happy. Because that version of the Goblin Queen, just doesn't cut it
    "Burn Her. Slowly. I want her to remember how dying like this feels"- Destiny

  2. #9992
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master of Sound View Post
    Now if this real Madelyne can kill-off the cheap Secret Wars version that came to the MU from Battleworld and her Bamf dragon, I would be really happy. Because that version of the Goblin Queen, just doesn't cut it
    I wonder if Madelyne is still considered a clone or duplicate of Jean. And if so i'm actually suprised her appearance first wasn't in x-factor. Also with the consciousness and all that debate are she and jean connected in some way or because she never literally had jean consciousness she is not considered jean. That then opens the question about putting someones consciousness in the body of someone else because if someone asked that in their will and some made the duplicate argument or cloned body one could just point to madelyne. Or what if one person is missing part of the memories. Like logan for instance if he was still in a state where he didn't have his memories could he even successfully be resurrected.? Would it be logan. I'm confusing myself. lol
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  3. #9993
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    I wonder if Madelyne is still considered a clone or duplicate of Jean. And if so i'm actually suprised her appearance first wasn't in x-factor. Also with the consciousness and all that debate are she and jean connected in some way or because she never literally had jean consciousness she is not considered jean. That then opens the question about putting someones consciousness in the body of someone else because if someone asked that in their will and some made the duplicate argument or cloned body one could just point to madelyne. Or what if one person is missing part of the memories. Like logan for instance if he was still in a state where he didn't have his memories could he even successfully be resurrected.? Would it be logan. I'm confusing myself. lol
    The body she is in technically was made from someone else and magicked into looking like her old one. So she's not a clone in the sense of a literal cloned body, but she's one of the first clones Sinister made. Given that, I think it's perfectly reasonable for her not to be appearing in X-Factor, where they are dealing specifically with the resurrection process and death, and not specifically cloning.

    And yes, people can be resurrected missing key memories. It has to do with the lead telepath's choice when downloading the existing data from Cerebro into the body. See X-Force and Domino as an example. It has also been stated that Xavier has previously reloaded his brain with data to erase memories in the past.

  4. #9994
    Spectacular Member andreikes's Avatar
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    "As Arkea feared being killed by the X-Men again, she wanted powerhouses to join the Sisterhood. She first had Amora resurrect Black Queen.[46] Then using the genetic material of Jean Grey, she modified the dead body of Ana Cortes to resemble Jean Grey genetically. To complete this she had Amora summon Madelyne from beyond the grave to complete the resurrection" marvel fandom

  5. #9995
    Astonishing Member Dante Milton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    And yes, people can be resurrected missing key memories. It has to do with the lead telepath's choice when downloading the existing data from Cerebro into the body. See X-Force and Domino as an example. It has also been stated that Xavier has previously reloaded his brain with data to erase memories in the past.
    It's actually determined by the wishes of the person being resurrected. In the case of Dom, she wanted to retain her memories but the only person she informed of that wish was Colossus, the implication being that he didn't respect her choice because he thought it was best, not the telepath who performed the resurrection.

  6. #9996
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andreikes View Post
    "As Arkea feared being killed by the X-Men again, she wanted powerhouses to join the Sisterhood. She first had Amora resurrect Black Queen.[46] Then using the genetic material of Jean Grey, she modified the dead body of Ana Cortes to resemble Jean Grey genetically. To complete this she had Amora summon Madelyne from beyond the grave to complete the resurrection" marvel fandom
    Yes, thank you for that, I thought I might have misspoke. But still, not a clone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Milton View Post
    It's actually determined by the wishes of the person being resurrected. In the case of Dom, she wanted to retain her memories but the only person she informed of that wish was Colossus, the implication being that he didn't respect her choice because he thought it was best, not the telepath who performed the resurrection.
    True. But still Xavier or the telepath could make that choice as well. I would not put it past Xavier if he thought it was in his... I mean their best interest.

  7. #9997
    Spectacular Member MAR420X's Avatar
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  8. #9998
    Mighty Member Steroid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAR420X View Post
    Awesome looking cover for sure.

  9. #9999
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    I wonder if Madelyne is still considered a clone or duplicate of Jean. And if so i'm actually suprised her appearance first wasn't in x-factor. Also with the consciousness and all that debate are she and jean connected in some way or because she never literally had jean consciousness she is not considered jean. That then opens the question about putting someones consciousness in the body of someone else because if someone asked that in their will and some made the duplicate argument or cloned body one could just point to madelyne. Or what if one person is missing part of the memories. Like logan for instance if he was still in a state where he didn't have his memories could he even successfully be resurrected.? Would it be logan. I'm confusing myself. lol
    Of course she's a clone of Jean. Thats the one thing that has pretty much defined her. Not sure why she would appear in X-Factor. She has no connection to the characters there other than a very weak one to Rachel. The Maraurders, Sinister and Havok are all personally attached to her so it makes perfect sense why she would be in Hellions

    As for your last point, a person can only be resurrected with whatever memories Cerebro backed up. If it was Logan in the 90s, it would be without chunks of his memories bc Xavier was unable to scan that part of his brain. People with natural telepathic resistances are gonna be tough to backup and Id suspect they'd have to work directly with Xavier in order to let those guards down for the purposes of the backup
    Last edited by Havok83; 08-03-2020 at 07:47 PM.

  10. #10000
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Of course she's a clone of Jean. Thats the one thing that has pretty much defined her. Not sure why she would appear in X-Factor. She has no connection to the characters there other than a very weak one to Rachel. The Maraurders, Sinister and Havok are all personally attached to her so it makes perfect sense why she would be in Hellions
    X-Factor's very premise deals with mutants who may or may not be dead - but the thing about Madelyne is that I'm not sure that it's ever been made clear that she had powers. Sinister made her to be a genetic duplicate of Jean but we never saw her use telepathy or telekinesis, so her X-Gene never ignited even if it exists. She resorted to making a deal with a demon to get her abilities.

    Therefore even if Maddie is an X-Villain, she's not exactly a mutant. If she appeared anywhere other than Hellions it would've made sense for it to be X-Force.

    "I'll always love you, Jean Grey." "I'll always love you too, Scott Summers." - Scott Summers and Jean Grey

  11. #10001
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    X-Factor's very premise deals with mutants who may or may not be dead - but the thing about Madelyne is that I'm not sure that it's ever been made clear that she had powers. Sinister made her to be a genetic duplicate of Jean but we never saw her use telepathy or telekinesis, so her X-Gene never ignited even if it exists. She resorted to making a deal with a demon to get her abilities.

    Therefore even if Maddie is an X-Villain, she's not exactly a mutant. If she appeared anywhere other than Hellions it would've made sense for it to be X-Force.
    Investigate mutants who may be dead so that they can be resurrected. As a clone, there is no reason to resurrect her as her existence is redundant with Jean and they dont want dupes around. Maddie was last seen alive. Yes, she's been MIA for years but there unfortunately for her, no incentive to look for her, at least not for the purpose for which X-Factor was formed

    Maddie most definitely has powers. In Inferno, she suggests that her nascent powers had awakened when Scott fought Storm and she used her TP unwillingly to make him lose that fight. She uses TK to subdue Jean and blasts several of the X-men

    One can argue the validity since she was sort of brought back in the 90s, but she used TP/TK in X-man, Fraction's UXM and Wood's X-men. Even the Maddie clones from Gillen's run had that powerset
    Last edited by Havok83; 08-03-2020 at 08:42 PM.

  12. #10002
    Astonishing Member CGAR's Avatar
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    what comes out tomorrow?

  13. #10003
    Astonishing Member Dante Milton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGAR View Post
    what comes out tomorrow?
    Empyre: X-Men #2
    Giant Size X-Men: Fantomex #1
    and Deadpool #6, which I usually wouldn't count, but it's set on Krakoa and features the X-Men

  14. #10004
    Mighty Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Investigate mutants who may be dead so that they can be resurrected. As a clone, there is no reason to resurrect her as her existence is redundant with Jean and they dont want dupes around. Maddie was last seen alive. Yes, she's been MIA for years but there unfortunately for her, no incentive to look for her, at least not for the purpose for which X-Factor was formed

    Maddie most definitely has powers. In Inferno, she suggests that her nascent powers had awakened when Scott fought Storm and she used her TP unwillingly to make him lose that fight. She uses TK to subdue Jean and blasts several of the X-men

    One can argue the validity since she was sort of brought back in the 90s, but she used TP/TK in X-man, Fraction's UXM and Wood's X-men. Even the Maddie clones from Gillen's run had that powerset
    Laura and the Cuckoos are clones, and they’re not considered redundant. They’re as much their own individuals as identical twins are.

  15. #10005
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frobisher View Post
    Laura and the Cuckoos are clones, and they’re not considered redundant. They’re as much their own individuals as identical twins are.
    Plus I could never see Xavier seeing any mutant as "redundant."

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