Upcoming X-books art teases

[Vishop]

That is not a collection of objective data, just more opinions. And while I do not consider 'comic book critics' as being objective, you should at least use the resources of something like comicbookroundup, and there were quite a few 'low' reviews for issues of Lives/Deaths among them. Based on that it has not been a 'critical bomb' but it also has not been 'critically acclaimed'.

The avg critics rating was 8.6 on that link that you have shared. The latest issue has 9.1 gathering all the links in that issue. Not sure where you are getting at
https://comicbookroundup.com/comic-b...erine-(2022)/5

Also this was the same website that critically rated return of wolverine.

https://comicbookroundup.com/comic-b...n-of-wolverine

[Jackraow21]

That is not a collection of objective data, just more opinions. And while I do not consider 'comic book critics' as being objective, you should at least use the resources of something like comicbookroundup, and there were quite a few 'low' reviews for issues of Lives/Deaths among them. Based on that it has not been a 'critical bomb' but it also has not been 'critically acclaimed'.

Thanks…

https://comicbookroundup.com/comic-b...erine-(2022)/5

Currently XLoW #5 is sitting at a 9.1, which is the highest of any book this week. Not sure what your definition of “critically acclaimed” is, but it seems mileage may vary on that depending on whether you personally want to like something or you don’t. Seems a tad subjective to me, but whatever. Using your own data source it looks like critics do indeed like this book.

The avg critics rating was 8.6 on that link that you have shared. The latest issue has 9.1 gathering all the links in that issue. Not sure where you are getting at
https://comicbookroundup.com/comic-b...erine-(2022)/5

Exactly. LOL. The series is popular and selling well. Wolverine haters gonna hate tho…

[sunofdarkchild]

The problems with XLDOW are manifold and go beyond the writing. Many of us suffered event burnout by the time this event was first announced. Onslaught, Trial of Magneto, and Inferno were all going on at the same time, and then this started immediately afterwards. That would be ridiculous even if all of those stories were great. Unfortunately even Inferno was disappointing by Hickman's usual standards and it was the best of the lot.

In addition, the concept of an event that determines the future of mutantkind that focuses solely on Wolverine does not work in this era. The X-Men have formed a nation of hundreds of thousands of people. The writers and the characters have to act like it. A nation does not solve existential crisis by throwing one person at it, especially when in-universe that person doesn't really make sense. If Krakoa faces a threat to its existence as a nation, that threat must be faced as a nation. A nation has resources, and those are not being used. This failure to write Krakoa as a nation or country can be seen in Inferno when they kept sending X-Force on the same suicide mission over and over again. No one thought to use any of the vast resources at their disposal for any other kind of plan. Right now it looks like Lives isn't as important as advertised and Deaths is focusing on Moira instead of Wolverine, and that makes a lot more sense given she is responsible for the creation of the nation. Wolverine, as important as he is in the real world, doesn't have the in-universe importance to justify the kind of of story which was advertised. And it looks like the marketing was misleading, which is another problem and one of my big peeves with Marvel as a whole.

These are the problems this story had before the first issue came out. The writing has it's own problems, from Moira's heel turn to Mikhail not being a compelling villain.

[Vishop]

The problems with XLDOW are manifold and go beyond the writing. Many of us suffered event burnout by the time this event was first announced. Onslaught, Trial of Magneto, and Inferno were all going on at the same time, and then this started immediately afterwards. That would be ridiculous even if all of those stories were great. Unfortunately even Inferno was disappointing by Hickman's usual standards and it was the best of the lot.

In addition, the concept of an event that determines the future of mutantkind that focuses solely on Wolverine does not work in this era. The X-Men have formed a nation of hundreds of thousands of people. The writers and the characters have to act like it. A nation does not solve existential crisis by throwing one person at it, especially when in-universe that person doesn't really make sense. If Krakoa faces a threat to its existence as a nation, that threat must be faced as a nation. A nation has resources, and those are not being used. This failure to write Krakoa as a nation or country can be seen in Inferno when they kept sending X-Force on the same suicide mission over and over again. No one thought to use any of the vast resources at their disposal for any other kind of plan. Right now it looks like Lives isn't as important as advertised and Deaths is focusing on Moira instead of Wolverine, and that makes a lot more sense given she is responsible for the creation of the nation. Wolverine, as important as he is in the real world, doesn't have the in-universe importance to justify the kind of of story which was advertised. And it looks like the marketing was misleading, which is another problem and one of my big peeves with Marvel as a whole.

These are the problems this story had before the first issue came out. The writing has it's own problems, from Moira's heel turn to Mikhail not being a compelling villain.

So your only critic is that "why its only wolverine" and not the writing itself. Figures.

[sunofdarkchild]

I covered this with the second sentence in my post you quoted. “It’s not quality if it makes money but nobody likes it.” This would cover your twilight, transformers etc. And saying Sharknado is a masterpiece based on my statement? C’mon now let’s not get crazy here.

Do you really believe no one liked the Transformers movies? Have you never heard of Twilight fans? Yes. Millions of people really like those despite them being objectively bad.

[Jackraow21]

The problems with XLDOW are manifold and go beyond the writing. Many of us suffered event burnout by the time this event was first announced. Onslaught, Trial of Magneto, and Inferno were all going on at the same time, and then this started immediately afterwards. That would be ridiculous even if all of those stories were great. Unfortunately even Inferno was disappointing by Hickman's usual standards and it was the best of the lot.

In addition, the concept of an event that determines the future of mutantkind that focuses solely on Wolverine does not work in this era. The X-Men have formed a nation of hundreds of thousands of people. The writers and the characters have to act like it. A nation does not solve existential crisis by throwing one person at it, especially when in-universe that person doesn't really make sense. If Krakoa faces a threat to its existence as a nation, that threat must be faced as a nation. A nation has resources, and those are not being used. This failure to write Krakoa as a nation or country can be seen in Inferno when they kept sending X-Force on the same suicide mission over and over again. No one thought to use any of the vast resources at their disposal for any other kind of plan. Right now it looks like Lives isn't as important as advertised and Deaths is focusing on Moira instead of Wolverine, and that makes a lot more sense given she is responsible for the creation of the nation. Wolverine, as important as he is in the real world, doesn't have the in-universe importance to justify the kind of of story which was advertised. And it looks like the marketing was misleading, which is another problem and one of my big peeves with Marvel as a whole.

These are the problems this story had before the first issue came out. The writing has it's own problems, from Moira's heel turn to Mikhail not being a compelling villain.

These are broader comic book problems. I mean, you could make the same complaint about X-men books pre Hickman. They had omega level mutants on the team (Xavier, Storm, Jean, etc.) so most of the threats they faced in the past could’ve easily been taken care of by the more powerful mutants in the X-men’s ranks, and all wrapped up before breakfast. But that wouldn’t make for very exciting stories. Same with the Avengers, Justice League, etc. The characters basically have to be incompetent in terms of using all resources at their disposal otherwise there wouldn’t be room for any drama or actual stakes in these funny books.

And as for Wolverine’s importance, have to disagree there. He’s been shown to be very important to the X-men and the broader Marvel U. He’s woven through its very fabric, having interacted with so many other heroes and villains throughout his long life. He was basically groomed by Romulus… possibly with Apocalypse acting behind him, to be the ultimate assassin and then he was weaponized with adamantium so that he could be a killer of super soldiers as we entered the superhuman age. Apocalypse again took him and made him his Horseman of Death, giving him his adamantium back after he lost it to Magneto. Why would he do this if Logan was just another mutant scrub and not at all important? Hell, he has a one in a billion blood type even, Type E for eternal. Recently established, but still. He’s pretty special and unique, the “best there is at what he does” (i.e., Xavier’s greatest asset/soldier), and very important to the mythos. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on that.

[sunofdarkchild]

So your only critic is that "why its only wolverine" and not the writing itself. Figures.

Even assuming you would dismiss the entire second paragraph 'why only Wolverine' instead of taking a second to consider the argument, you do see that I have 2 other paragraphs which contain 3 other criticisms, right?

[Vishop]

These are broader comic book problems. I mean, you could make the same complaint about X-men books pre Hickman. They had omega level mutants on the team (Xavier, Storm, Jean, etc.) so most of the threats they faced in the past could’ve easily been taken care of by the more powerful mutants in the X-men’s ranks, and all wrapped up before breakfast. But that wouldn’t make for very exciting stories. Same with the Avengers, Justice League, etc. The characters basically have to be incompetent in terms of using all resources at their disposal otherwise there wouldn’t be room for any drama or actual stakes in these funny books.

And as for Wolverine’s importance, have to disagree there. He’s been shown to be very important to the X-men and the broader Marvel U. He’s woven through its very fabric, having interacted with so many other heroes and villains throughout his long life. He was basically groomed by Romulus… possibly with Apocalypse acting behind him, to be the ultimate assassin and then he was weaponized with adamantium so that he could be a killer of super soldiers as we entered the superhuman age. Apocalypse again took him and made him his Horseman of Death, giving him his adamantium back after he lost it to Magneto. Why would he do this if Logan was just another mutant scrub and not at all important? Hell, he has a one in a billion blood type even, Type E for eternal. Recently established, but still. He’s pretty special and unique, the “best there is at what he does” (i.e., Xavier’s greatest asset/soldier), and very important to the mythos. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on that.

I mean he was one of the major characters during House of X and Powers of X. The only characters that were more important were Destiny, Mystique, Charles, Moira and Mags.

[Vishop]

Even assuming you would dismiss the entire second paragraph 'why only Wolverine' instead of taking a second to consider the argument, you do see that I have 2 other paragraphs which contain 3 other criticisms, right?

I mean your only criticism is ineffectual with respect to "writing" of these two books. The only thing that felt relevant was why its only Wolverine in this era.

[Jackraow21]

I mean he was one of the major characters during House of X and Powers of X. The only characters that were more important were Destiny, Mystique, Charles, Moira and Mags.

Saying Wolverine isn’t important enough to have a dedicated story about him like this is truly burying your head in the sand and just wishing things aren’t the way they are. I get the Wolverine hate from some quarters. I truly do. Fans of other characters feel that he’s taking away screen/panel time that their favorites might otherwise get if he just did not exist (which I don’t believe, rather I believe the X-men would just be less popular honestly).

So while it may be misguided, I get why some folks are so eager to prove that no one likes this series, it is objectively bad, and Marvel just forced it on us because they hate us. Unfortunately it’s hard to prove that which is patently false. Ha.

[sunofdarkchild]

Saying Wolverine isn’t important enough to have a dedicated story about him like this is truly burying your head in the sand and just wishing things aren’t the way they are. I get the Wolverine hate from some quarters. I truly do. Fans of other characters feel that he’s taking away screen/panel time that their favorites might otherwise get if he just did not exist (which I don’t believe, rather I believe the X-men would just be less popular honestly). So while it may be misguided, I get why some folks are so eager to prove that no one likes this series, it is objectively bad, and Marvel just forced it on us because they hate us. Unfortunately it’s hard to prove that which is patently false. Ha.

Having a dedicated story to Wolverine is one thing. Having an event is one thing. Have the biggest Wolverine event in the world is fine. Don't have a big X-Men event that changes everything for mutantkind forever just be Wolverine. I think it takes a certain amount of burying of one's head in the sand not to see the difference between those things and the problem with the latter and why people can have legitimate problems with that. If this was advertised as the big Wolverine event instead of the big X-Men event that wouldn't be a problem. The problems with the event fatigue and the writing would remain. Moira's actions and motivations would still not make sense. Mikhail would still be a bad villain. The meaningless pretentious monologues would still be there. But it would be a Wolverine event, and not an X-Men event. That would silence many of the complaints

The fact that writers, even Hickman, struggle in making it seem like Krakoa is a nation is a writing problem, and a big one. It's something that permeates much of the X-books right now. That the central premise of this era is something that isn't taken advantage of and is often not shown in the books is a very serious problem.

[cranger]

(edit: yeah, back to the art please)

[Rufio]

Really loving these art teases, guys.

[Jackraow21]

Having a dedicated story to Wolverine is one thing. Having an event is one thing. Have the biggest Wolverine event in the world is fine. Don't have a big X-Men event that changes everything for mutantkind forever just be Wolverine. I think it takes a certain amount of burying of one's head in the sand not to see the difference between those things and the problem with the latter and why people can have legitimate problems with that. If this was advertised as the big Wolverine event instead of the big X-Men event that wouldn't be a problem. The problems with the event fatigue and the writing would remain. Moira's actions and motivations would still not make sense. Mikhail would still be a bad villain. The meaningless pretentious monologues would still be there. But it would be a Wolverine event, and not an X-Men event. That would silence many of the complaints.

The title of the damn event was X Lives of Wolverine / X Deaths of Wolverine. I’d say that makes it a Wolverine event, even if it has broader implications for the X-line. Sorry if you felt it wasn’t marketed appropriately and expected more X-men in it, but I think most folks understood from the title who would be front and center in this.

Really loving these art teases, guys.

Point taken. I’m done with the above discussion. It’s devolved into a round and round circular argument.

[Vishop]

I gave a link that collected reviews for all of the issues. The most recent issue only has 4 reviews in so far, and even if some of the people who have given previous issue lower ratings like this issue more, it does not mean that some of the issues have not had low scores. Several of the sites that did not care for the first issue have either not reviewed the rest of the issues or are not having their reviews collected, but it is very likely that if they had continued reviewing the series that the overall ratings would be lower.

Again, I showed a whole set of data, so one issue with incomplete data is not going to make the other data irrelevant.

I have explictly mentioned that the series has avg critic rating of 8.6 and i dont know what else to say. This topics are too irrelevant for this thread so I am gonna leave it here.