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[Ambaryerno]

Pak hasn't done anything grey since he started destroying Sabretooth last year. He just flip flops around with no idea how to balance anything. The closest he got was chapter 18, and that was the ONLY time or good chapter he did.

But he can do whatever now, because Creed x Mystique being back together was an instant repellent for me. Whenever they're together, they're never anything less than a psycho couple who hates Logan. The entire basis for writers putting them together it seems, which has been stale as old bread. I doubt they brought her in for this book to not be about villains. She's not written with much depth beyond being a psycho these days, and I don't think it's a coincidence they threw her in here, with the other characters who aren't being taken seriously either.

So yeah. To me, this is a villain team, and I won't be reading to see otherwise. Not any point -for me.

My Headcanon
Creed is still an anti-hero on Magneto's team with Monet, Angel, and Psylocke/ Weapon X never happened, and Creed wants nothing to do with Mystique. Bunn said she & Creed weren't on good terms. Good, they never should be. But someone at Marvel has an erection for this bland / abusive ass pairing. Haven't hated a pairing this much since Buffy x Spike...

After Wolverines I can't imagine why Creed WOULD want anything to do with her.

[Silver Fang]

After Wolverines I can't imagine why Creed WOULD want anything to do with her.

Well they still had him following & taking orders from her after she shot him in the head. Then she's also sold him out, lied to him to make use of him, poisoned him, etc. Then seduced him under false identity, and got pregnant with a baby she didn't tell him about. But he was still with her up to Axis. Their first meeting being retconned in Axis, when they sweetly reminisce about how they almost killed each other, then had sex.

Apparently Creed is now a cuck that likes being abused by his girlfriend, who tells him to his face that she's gonna sleep around and to get used to smelling other men on her.

We can't forget Creed almost killing Mystique twice in X-Factor, and in his solo mini. His brutal attack & murder of Destiny's family, and endangerment of her grandson, Chase. And his murder & selling out of numerous mutants, whom Mystique used to care about helping. But since she's got him p-whipped now, I guess it's ok.

Mystique & Creed have NO reason to want anything to do with each other. The pairing is contrived as Hell. Creed was good with Bonnie, Holly, Monet, or even Ruth & Momma. Meanwhile, Mystique was better with Destiny or even Azazel. I don't know where the latter is, but bring him back & put Mystique with him. Stop throwing her to Sabretooth. She's almost been thrown with him longer than she's been with Destiny.

[anyajenkins]

Ambaryerno speaks truth. This so-called "Fresh Start" has been nothing but resetting everything.

*Jean is alive again
*Logan is alive again
*Madrox is alive again
*Laura is X-23 again
*Sabretooth, Magneto, and Emma are mostly villains again
*Rogue x Gambit are together again (better than Kitty & Col, but still eh)
*Sabretooth x Mystique are together again, and on a villain team like before AXIS
*Deadpool is closer to Waypool again in his solo

The only book I am keeping up with now is Exiles, and it's ok but still finding itself right now. I doubt anything is coming for me in Oct. that I am gonna care much about, considering where we are now, with no end in sight.

Laura is x-23 only in name, her character hasn't regressed.
Emma's stepped back from full villian status, and magneto is rather cyclical.
Deadpool is likely reflecting movie synergy and thus not the fault of nostalgia.
R+G moving past the angst and getting married is actually character growth, we'll see how it goes...
Jean is the one comic character who literally shouldn't stay dead , it's in her name for crying out loud! (kinda Wolverine too.)

[Kurolegacy]

Well they still had him following & taking orders from her after she shot him in the head. Then she's also sold him out, lied to him to make use of him, poisoned him, etc. Then seduced him under false identity, and got pregnant with a baby she didn't tell him about. But he was still with her up to Axis. Their first meeting being retconned in Axis, when they sweetly reminisce about how they almost killed each other, then had sex.

Apparently Creed is now a cuck that likes being abused by his girlfriend, who tells him to his face that she's gonna sleep around and to get used to smelling other men on her.

We can't forget Creed almost killing Mystique twice in X-Factor, and in his solo mini. His brutal attack & murder of Destiny's family, and endangerment of her grandson, Chase. And his murder & selling out of numerous mutants, whom Mystique used to care about helping. But since she's got him p-whipped now, I guess it's ok.

Mystique & Creed have NO reason to want anything to do with each other. The pairing is contrived as Hell. Creed was good with Bonnie, Holly, Monet, or even Ruth & Momma. Meanwhile, Mystique was better with Destiny or even Azazel. I don't know where the latter is, but bring him back & put Mystique with him. Stop throwing her to Sabretooth. She's almost been thrown with him longer than she's been with Destiny.

Weird thing is that last time we saw Azazel was Mystique helping him escape after Nightcrawler captured him after defeating him in Amazing X-Men. We never got any follow-up to this even in Nightcrawler's solo.

[PsychoEFrost]

SabretoothxMystique and Waypool are the only flaws in this for me, the rest is fine for me as long as is handled well, especially regarding Logan's resurrection (for me at least) he deserves a good run after having his charachter neutered and destroyed in the last 13 years.

Regarding the coming back to villany, i think that with Wolverine coming back Creed could be a genuine threat again, too soon to tell but Marvel seems to really rebuild him giving a worthy nemesis should take a part on that, Magneto can work in a noble demon role even if that make an antagonist again, not sure about Emma thougth.

Neutered? Wolverine was worshipped for the last 15 years. At the very least he was going to win every battle unless plot reasons, even against opponents he shouldn't be able to win against, and if Jason Aaron was writing, he was a god who could do no wrong and everyone should bow to worship his awesome might and facial hair.

Schism? Gets the Xavier treatment and regarded in universe as being completely 100% correct regardless of what he was doing or what he was saying.

AvX? His rival gets written into going crazy while he gets to work with the Avengers, save the day, and give a eulogy for Charles despite HIM CAUSING THE EVENT TO EVEN HAPPEN

Uncanny/All-New? Written to be entirely in the right and infallible.

[Jopi]

Neutered? Wolverine was worshipped for the last 15 years. At the very least he was going to win every battle unless plot reasons, even against opponents he shouldn't be able to win against, and if Jason Aaron was writing, he was a god who could do no wrong and everyone should bow to worship his awesome might and facial hair.

Schism? Gets the Xavier treatment and regarded in universe as being completely 100% correct regardless of what he was doing or what he was saying.

AvX? His rival gets written into going crazy while he gets to work with the Avengers, save the day, and give a eulogy for Charles despite HIM CAUSING THE EVENT TO EVEN HAPPEN

Uncanny/All-New? Written to be entirely in the right and infallible.

Sounds like Wolverine has become Marvel's Gary Stu.

[PsychoEFrost]

Sounds like Wolverine has become Marvel's Gary Stu.

Just on certain writers. But he does have his own trope "Wolverine Publicity". He's the most popular X-Men character by a wide margin, so he's gonna be in a ton of stuff, and naturally the good guy has to win most of the time.

[TheCape]

Neutered? Wolverine was worshipped for the last 15 years. At the very least he was going to win every battle unless plot reasons, even against opponents he shouldn't be able to win against, and if Jason Aaron was writing, he was a god who could do no wrong and everyone should bow to worship his awesome might and facial hair.

Schism? Gets the Xavier treatment and regarded in universe as being completely 100% correct regardless of what he was doing or what he was saying.

AvX? His rival gets written into going crazy while he gets to work with the Avengers, save the day, and give a eulogy for Charles despite HIM CAUSING THE EVENT TO EVEN HAPPEN

Uncanny/All-New? Written to be entirely in the right and infallible.

Yeah, all that you mention and the treatment in universe, it wasn't good,turning him into.the new Xavier and being put in the morally right position took away a lot of depth for the characther and the "Wolverine Publicity" turned against him considering that his solo has been selling worse last time.

Hell the period from 2006 to 2014 was downright awfull (with some good blips here and there) Way and Loeb destroyed Logan's characther with Orgins and all that ridiculous Lupine stuff, Aaron did some interesting and fun stuff at the beginning but his run was really uneven and he gave us Schism wicht failed so hard in justifying Woverine side that nobody except his biggest fanboys took it (to be honest now i could see why he did it, bjt the story never adressed it properly) th Bunn was bad, Cornell was awfull and wrote him immensely OCC, WaTX started as fun comedy series and then lost any quality after AvX, Orgins ll by Gillen was awfull, ditto with with AvX, regardless of the In-Universe treatment, Wolverine pretty much lost what make him likable or interesting.

But please, keep telling me that he wasn't.

[Hush]

Neutered? Wolverine was worshipped for the last 15 years. At the very least he was going to win every battle unless plot reasons, even against opponents he shouldn't be able to win against, and if Jason Aaron was writing, he was a god who could do no wrong and everyone should bow to worship his awesome might and facial hair.

Schism? Gets the Xavier treatment and regarded in universe as being completely 100% correct regardless of what he was doing or what he was saying.

AvX? His rival gets written into going crazy while he gets to work with the Avengers, save the day, and give a eulogy for Charles despite HIM CAUSING THE EVENT TO EVEN HAPPEN

Uncanny/All-New? Written to be entirely in the right and infallible.

He wasn't neutered ?! He wasn't neutered ?! HE WASN'T NEUTERED ?!!! Please tell me you're joking because during 2001-2014 everything that made Wolverine a badass was basically removed, the character was just domesticated and became a pale shadow of his former self to make him the new Xavier. Only things worthwile during this era were the Tieri, Rucka and Millar runs.

Starting in 2001, Jemas, Jenkins and Quesada basically remove the mystery surrounding Wolverine backstory and gave him one of the most cliché origin story where they gave him another ridiculous name (everyone calling him James afterwards never made any sense). Removing Logan's mysterious past was a big mistake and it didn't do the character any good he just became another hero who got his powers after a terrible family tragedy yeah so original...

Then Way and Loeb completely missed the point about the character and turn him into a war criminal who allied with nazi, adbucted children and turn them into psychopaths and made sure some japanese's prisoners during WWII were tortured and experimented while their kids were killed. Hell it was also revealed he was the big boss of the Weapon X project, you know the thing that enslaved mutants, experimented on them, killed them and the thing that almost detroyed him.

Remember Weapon X by BWS? Logan was a man who had to let go of his humanity if he wanted to survive the Weapon X experiment, that despite the scientist's will to turn him into a weapon he said "fuck this I'm a man not an animal" well guess what he was just an animal, a killer, a war criminal without any honor all along. Remember how it was hard to control him? Nope it was a joke he was mindcontrolled all of his life by a Sabretooth ripoff, even Xavier mindwiped him but yeah those last 15 years are still great for Logan.

Remember when Logan joined the X-Men because he believed in Xavier's dream? Nope it was revealed by Way and Carey he just wanted kill him. Logan just became the cliché of the anti hero who now wants to do some good actions to make up for his terrible and convoluted past, that's so great and original...

But the fun doesn't stop here, the guy who is basically an anti hero who doesn't care about authority became Scott's lapdog post House Of M and then Captain America's lapdog post AVX, yeah so far so good right?
He joined the Avengers and became the definition of a punching bag who got his ass kicked most of the time. During Uncanny Avengers after Cap learned some part of what happened during Uncanny X-Force he began threatening Wolverine but Logan said nothing he didn't want to hit Cap because "muh respect". After all that I'm sorry but Logan just became a domesticated pet of both the X-Men and the Avengers at this point.

Cornell was the last one on the line to make sure everything people loved about Wolverine was destroyed. He made him a joke, strip him of his powers and made him act like a fool. Yeah that was so great seeing Logan affraid of crossing a street or shaving because he doesn't have an healing factor anymore and being lectured by Sabretooth of all people.

And then his death, while he was written well in this mini it was just a rushed job to quickly kill Logan and replace him with the "made in taiwan" copies of him (not Laura of course, she's the only one worth a damn) that just proved to be beyond useless.

And again since when Aaron's Wolverine is a god? He was tricked into killing his children by the Red Right Hand and Daken, he had a nervous breakdown, he was outsmarted by Sabretooth during the back in Japan storyline, got his ass kicked by Dog Logan (another terrible character), even Raze of all character kicked his ass lol and everybody made fun of him during WatX/Amazing X-Men. His biggest feat was dying and becoming an host of the Phoenix Force just before Schism, but thanks to Spider-Man he again said "fuck this" to ultimate power which is in line with what Logan did years ago during Uncanny X-Men Annual #11.

And lol at saying Wolverine is responsible for AVX, if anyone is responsible it's the writers and the editors for making Steve and Scott act like dumbass and by making another rehash of the same argument Wolverine and Cap had during the first Secret Wars.

He even admit he was an hypocrite during Uncanny Avengers and honestly if becoming the headmaster of a school and the successor of Xavier is not being neutered I'm not sure what more proof do you want.

[WeaponX]

He wasn't neutered ?! He wasn't neutered ?! HE WASN'T NEUTERED ?!!! Please tell me you're joking because during 2001-2014 everything that made Wolverine a badass was basically removed, the character was just domesticated and became a pale shadow of his former self to make him the new Xavier. Only things worthwile during this era were the Tieri, Rucka and Millar runs.

Starting in 2001, Jemas, Jenkins and Quesada basically remove the mystery surrounding Wolverine backstory and gave him one of the most cliché origin story where they gave him another ridiculous name (everyone calling him James afterwards never made any sense). Removing Logan's mysterious past was a big mistake and it didn't do the character any good he just became another hero who got his powers after a terrible family tragedy yeah so original...

Then Way and Loeb completely missed the point about the character and turn him into a war criminal who allied with nazi, adbucted children and turn them into psychopaths and made sure some japanese's prisoners during WWII were tortured and experimented while their kids were killed. Hell it was also revealed he was the big boss of the Weapon X project, you know the thing that enslaved mutants, experimented on them, killed them and the thing that almost detroyed him.

Remember Weapon X by BWS? Logan was a man who had to let go of his humanity if he wanted to survive the Weapon X experiment, that despite the scientist's will to turn him into a weapon he said "fuck this I'm a man not an animal" well guess what he was just an animal, a killer, a war criminal without any honor all along. Remember how it was hard to control him? Nope it was a joke he was mindcontrolled all of his life by a Sabretooth ripoff, even Xavier mindwiped him but yeah those last 15 years are still great for Logan.

Remember when Logan joined the X-Men because he believed in Xavier's dream? Nope it was revealed by Way and Carey he just wanted kill him. Logan just became the cliché of the anti hero who now wants to do some good actions to make up for his terrible and convoluted past, that's so great and original...

But the fun doesn't stop here, the guy who is basically an anti hero who doesn't care about authority became Scott's lapdog post House Of M and then Captain America's lapdog post AVX, yeah so far so good right?
He joined the Avengers and became the definition of a punching bag who got his ass kicked most of the time. During Uncanny Avengers after Cap learned some part of what happened during Uncanny X-Force he began threatening Wolverine but Logan said nothing he didn't want to hit Cap because "muh respect". After all that I'm sorry but Logan just became a domesticated pet of both the X-Men and the Avengers at this point.

Cornell was the last one on the line to make sure everything people loved about Wolverine was destroyed. He made him a joke, strip him of his powers and made him act like a fool. Yeah that was so great seeing Logan affraid of crossing a street or shaving because he doesn't have an healing factor anymore and being lectured by Sabretooth of all people.

And then his death, while he was written well in this mini it was just a rushed job to quickly kill Logan and replace him with the "made in taiwan" copies of him (not Laura of course, she's the only one worth a damn) that just proved to be beyond useless.

And again since when Aaron's Wolverine is a god? He was tricked into killing his children by the Red Right Hand and Daken, he had a nervous breakdown, he was outsmarted by Sabretooth during the back in Japan storyline, got his ass kicked by Dog Logan (another terrible character), even Raze of all character kicked his ass lol and everybody made fun of him during WatX/Amazing X-Men. His biggest feat was dying and becoming an host of the Phoenix Force just before Schism, but thanks to Spider-Man he again said "fuck this" to ultimate power which is in line with what Logan did years ago during Uncanny X-Men Annual #11.

And lol at saying Wolverine is responsible for AVX, if anyone is responsible it's the writers and the editors for making Steve and Scott act like dumbass and by making another rehash of the same argument Wolverine and Cap had during the first Secret Wars.

He even admit he was an hypocrite during Uncanny Avengers and honestly if becoming the headmaster of a school and the successor of Xavier is not being neutered I'm not sure what more proof do you want.

I fully support this message. Origin and the subsequent telling of Wolverine’s past was the worst thing to happen to the character. Logan not being part of his actual name was monumentally stupid. There was a good story to tell there and I understand why marvel did it but they couldn’t have dropped the ball worse if they tried. Way it seems always wanted Logan to just be Sabertooth.

[WeaponX]

And another thing how hilariously bad was it that in the beginning of the Wolverine Orgins ongoing word gets out Wolverine knows his past and all these government officials start committing suicide because Logan knows what they did to him then when it’s all said and done no government agencies are at fault or even involved for that matter in turning Logan into Wolverine.

[Hush]

I fully support this message. Origin and the subsequent telling of Wolverine’s past was the worst thing to happen to the character. Logan not being part of his actual name was monumentally stupid. There was a good story to tell there and I understand why marvel did it but they couldn’t have dropped the ball worse if they tried. Way it seems always wanted Logan to just be Sabertooth.

Thanks, I agree it could have been a good story to tell but Marvel completely dropped the ball and in the end it just damaged the character. It might be an unpopular opinion but I think some stories are better left untold.

I dunno what's the deal with Way but the fact that Marvel let him and Loeb wrote that nonsense was just mindblowing for me. Well to be honest after what Marvel did to Gwen with Sins Past and to Xavier with Deadly Genesis I shouldn't be so suprised lol.

And another thing how hilariously bad was it that in the beginning of the Wolverine Orgins ongoing word gets out Wolverine knows his past and all these government officials start committing suicide because Logan knows what they did to him then when it’s all said and done no government agencies are at fault or even involved for that matter in turning Logan into Wolverine.

Yeah I agree that scene never made any sense and there were no consequences in the end, another proof that Way didn't have any clue of what he was doing lol.

[WeaponX]

Thanks, I agree it could have been a good story to tell but Marvel completely dropped the ball and in the end it just damaged the character. It might be an unpopular opinion but I think some stories are better left untold.

I dunno what's the deal with Way but the fact that Marvel let him and Loeb wrote that nonsense was just mindblowing for me. Well to be honest after what Marvel did to Gwen with Sins Past and to Xavier with Deadly Genesis I shouldn't be so suprised lol.




Yeah I agree that scene never made any sense and there were no consequences in the end, another proof that Way didn't have any clue of what he was doing lol.

Agreed those were horrible stories. For all the hype he gets I think Joe Quesada is one of the worst EiCs Marvel has had because all his successes ie the Ultimate Line was Jemas and he’s okayed some really terrible projects like Origin OMD Sins Past Deadly Genesis.

[King_Thor13]

[B]This so-called "Fresh Start" has been nothing but resetting everything.

*Jean is alive again
*Logan is alive again
*Madrox is alive again
*Laura is X-23 again
*Sabretooth, Magneto, and Emma are mostly villains again
*Rogue x Gambit are together again (better than Kitty & Col, but still eh)
*Sabretooth x Mystique are together again, and on a villain team like before AXIS

Seems like the fresh start is a lot like hitting the reset button.

I could have done without Logan for a little longer, and I hope once Hunt for Wolverine/Dead Ends/Return are done he doesn't jump right back onto a team of X-Men. I'll be disappointed if he's on one (or more) team books in the upcoming relaunch when there's such a wide range of characters available, and a great many that haven't been in use for a while now.

Very pleased Jean + Madrox are back, especially the former. When I began to read comics Jean had already been dead a number of years, but I was a fast fan when I read back and learned of her lives and death(s).

I could've done with a Cyke return whilst Jean, Logan, Madrox, Rhodey, Widow + Hulk made a comeback.

I wouldn't mind the X-23 codename IF Taylor hadn't taken that trajectory with Laura & putting her past behind her. That whole speech about being more than what Weapon X defined her as, now feels rather empty, in knowing it's undone so soon. I suppose it makes sense for branding and merchandising but its backtracking on an already established narrative, and a recent one too.

Sabretooth as a villain is fine by me, as I never really wanted him to be a white knight anyways. His physicality and aggression don't make for a great hero, and his past is far bloodier than Logans. The malice in that man is unbelievable and I really struggle to see why M, Magneto etc. would willingly choose to ally with him. I really really don't want Mags and Emma as villains after the years spent redeeming them and proving their worth as X-Men- I don't mind the occasional dark deed for the greater good, but they should be more than simple antagonists; their multifaceted characters make them that much more enjoyable.

I'm psyched about R+G and I'm glad to see a happy healthy relationship (for now) flourish- it's a comicbook rarity. I wouldn't have it any other way, as they're two of my faves. If I had to nitpick, I do wish that Gambits assumed bisexuality had been addressed before he'd been wed, not that Marvel would have chosen that path anyway.

Mystique works best alone I think. She seems to inevitably betray everyone. Hell, I wish her wifey Destiny was back.

[RAWRlrus]

I thought the X-men’s fresh start begain in September or October? Most of the things on the list are from Resurrexion or earlier.