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[Snoop Dogg]

when did feats become characterization

[H-E-D]

when did feats become characterization

Too many comics fans value feats above practically all else. It's bizarre because I don't even think "feats" are a thing, but they talk about them like its a stat in baseball or something

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

when did feats become characterization

House of X #4 (2019)

[Silver Fang]

Agree. Many times characters are written OOC one time and it completely destroys them. Look for Hank Pym, a slap derailed his character forever

Yep. All it takes if one quack's depiction to ruin a character forever..Or predominantly.

Daniel Way is an example. Took Deadpool from a dangerous, unhinged legit character to a loony toon. Now a joke character is all he's known as. And the so-called "Fourth Wall Breaking", which was hardly something he did back in the 90's up to early 2000's.

Nowadays, outside of Bunn & Duggan, he's eye-roll worthy & annoying as fuck. A worse version of Jar Jar Binks. So far, I have no faith in Kelly Thompson doing any better. But maybe i'll be surprised.

[Tycon]

I know this is reopening that HOX4 Jean wound but like......I’m still not getting what was wrong besides maybe not having an escape plan ready. She had a role in connecting everyone to Xavier (which will probably be essential down the line) and it’s not like she went out like a chump. She was just reeling from feeling the deaths of the entire team and was then blindsided by like nine giant ass Sentinels in the open vacuum of space.

Plus, if we’re doing feats.....it’s not like Jean beats Cassandra through pure skill. The very next time we see those two after that clash:

[powerpax]

Too many comics fans value feats above practically all else. It's bizarre because I don't even think "feats" are a thing, but they talk about them like its a stat in baseball or something

This was not a thing when I used to be more involved in comics fandom. The idea that people are obsessed with it or panel time now is ridiculous to me.

Taylor clearly hates Jean to let her get jobbed so a little girl can finish her fight, so OOC

[lurkerforyears]

I didnt like Xmen Red for many reasons, one of them that we are still owed an explanation or a story about "the return of Cassandra Nova"
It's a bit of a continuity problem. Morrison had her completely defeated, she was tricked into becoming Ernst. Whedon had her body disappear, the Cassandra of his story was a telepathic illusion of Emma, while dying she had implanted that into Emma's mind. Austen had her possess the son of nurse Annie while they were leaving the school.

she hadnt been used at all since Morrison, except for an AU Cassandra Nova from the future, so it doesnt apply.

[H-E-D]

I didnt like Xmen Red for many reasons, one of them that we are still owed an explanation or a story about "the return of Cassandra Nova"
It's a bit of a continuity problem. Morrison had her completely defeated, she was tricked into becoming Ernst. Whedon had her body disappear, the Cassandra of his story was a telepathic illusion of Emma, while dying she had implanted that into Emma's mind. Austen had her possess the son of nurse Annie while they were leaving the school.

she hadnt been used at all since Morrison, except for an AU Cassandra Nova from the future, so it doesnt apply.

I thought Nova was in Stuff before Red.

RCO023.jpg

She was in Stuff, Kitty took it out, and then they all got beamed into space and sorta just never talked about Cassandra Nova again.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I know this is reopening that HOX4 Jean wound but like......I’m still not getting what was wrong besides maybe not having an escape plan ready. She had a role in connecting everyone to Xavier (which will probably be essential down the line) and it’s not like she went out like a chump. She was just reeling from feeling the deaths of the entire team and was then blindsided by like nine giant ass Sentinels in the open vacuum of space.

Plus, if we’re doing feats.....it’s not like Jean beats Cassandra through pure skill. The very next time we see those two after that clash:

I think the root of the chagrin is that she was a chump in the two issues. She got dressed down by Wolverine, Mr. Boring, and Monet for not understanding what needed to done, called out helplessly a couple of times because she's such the damsel needing direction and motivation, and then put up not a hint of a brave face while the others were solemn with duty. People are being very disingenuous about this on this board, yet the consensus seems to be that she was weak-willed at best, and useless if you're brutally honest.

About the Tom Taylor book, that's the point. No one is mad that Jean Grey was defeated.

[phoenixzero23]

I think the root of the chagrin is that she was a chump in the two issues. She got dressed down by Wolverine, Mr. Boring, and Monet for not understanding what needed to done, called out helplessly a couple of times because she's such the damsel needing direction and motivation, and then put up not a hint of a brave face while the others were solemn with duty. People are being very disingenuous about this on this board, yet the consensus seems to be that she was weak-willed at best, and useless if you're brutally honest.

You sound familiar, like certain poster of old.
hmmm

Not that you're wrong, I agree with many of your points.

[Paul Newell]

That roster is kinda random. Its almost the TAS with Piotr and Blink swapped in for Gambit and Jubilee

Wonder if they were going for a generational thing

Giant Size era - Storm, Cyclops
Early 90s - Colossus, Rogue
AoA - Wolverine, Blink
New X-men - Beast, Jean
House of X - Xavier and Magneto

Yeah, gotta assume it's a generational thing, due to Morrison!Jean and AOA!Wolvie.

It's the "seminal moments" thing Hickman was talking about before the series started.

Giant size X-Men#1, X-Men #1, Age of Apocalypse & New X-Men #114. Only one missing is (Uncanny) X-Men #1.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

You sound familiar, like certain poster of old.
hmmm

Not that you're wrong, I agree with many of your points.

I am glad! Mother always tells me how perceptive I am and I can only hope that extends to critiques of the arts. But one never knows for sure, so it's good to have confirmation that I am making sense.

[powerpax]

She got dressed down by Wolverine, Mr. Boring

This, of course, never happened, and I am happy to link the panel again if you like. You are projecting based on Wolverine opining re: Orchis' motivations and disagreeing with Scott, not Jean, and calling that an insult to Jean because she holds another opinion, because apparently no one can be allowed to do that even in a passive way when talking to someone else. Unfortunately it is not 1993 anymore and Jean's role in the franchise has evolved beyond untouchable voice of truth.

People are being very disingenuous about this on this board, yet the consensus seems to be that she was weak-willed at best, and useless if you're brutally honest.

We are not being 'disingenuous'. We are simply disagreeing with you. As for useless: Not according to Xavier and the mission parameters. Sorry she did not manifest the Phoenix and end the mission, but that is not what she was there for.

[AHRNIHAL]

Where is the art teases??Where???

[GSman]

Where is the art teases??Where???

Yeah, this thread isn't really living up to it's name. Though, art teases are sparse, so it wouldn't really be that active either way. But still, no need to have a discussion here, instead of an appropriate thread.