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  1. #10006
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frobisher View Post
    Laura and the Cuckoos are clones, and they’re not considered redundant. They’re as much their own individuals as identical twins are.
    Laura is alive, not dead and she's not actually a clone.

    The Cuckoos are redundant and yes people consider them so, but that redundancy is what makes them unique. 2 Cuckoos were resurrected and I see two possible reasons for that.

    A) Emma likely requested it as they are her "daughters" and she has leverage that would push them up the queue.

    B) They work as a hive mind and are far more powerful and in sync when they are all together. The death of the two crippled them so bringing Esme and Sophie back helped to restore that

    There is a reason why Marvel went about getting rid of most of the duplicate characters prior to Hickman's run. Maddie was last seen alive but lets say she died. Who is gonna fight to bring her back?
    There isnt anyone that logically would do that and she mentioning in Hellions that no one noticed she was back, speaks volumes to how disregarded she is within the mutant community.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Plus I could never see Xavier seeing any mutant as "redundant."
    But with over 16 million mutants to resurrect, any duplicates or clones out there, are likely at the bottom of the queue
    Last edited by Havok83; 08-04-2020 at 11:52 AM.

  2. #10007
    Mighty Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Laura is alive, not dead and she's not actually a clone.

    The Cuckoos are redundant and yes people consider them so, but that redundancy is what makes them unique. 2 Cuckoos were resurrected and I see two possible reasons for that.

    A) Emma likely requested it as they are her "daughters" and she has leverage that would push them up the queue.

    B) They work as a hive mind and are far more powerful and in sync when they are all together. The death of the two crippled them so bringing Esme and Sophie back helped to restore that

    There is a reason why Marvel went about getting rid of most of the duplicate characters prior to Hickman's run. Maddie was last seen alive but lets say she died. Who is gonna fight to bring her back?
    There isnt anyone that logically would do that and she mentioning in Hellions that no one noticed she was back, speaks volumes to how disregarded she is within the mutant community.
    But with over 16 million mutants to resurrect, any duplicates or clones out there, are likely at the bottom of the queue
    So if an identical twin died you’d just leave them dead, because you already have one person with that DNA?

  3. #10008
    BANNED misty101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frobisher View Post
    So if an identical twin died you’d just leave them dead, because you already have one person with that DNA?
    Here is how the resurrection process works:

    Does the writer/Marvel want that character in the comic?
    If yes, then bring them back and work out logic afterward.

    End of, there's literally probably no other thought that goes into this.

  4. #10009
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frobisher View Post
    So if an identical twin died you’d just leave them dead, because you already have one person with that DNA?
    Twins are not clones. You are bringing up a hypothetical thats not the basis of how the resurrection protocols work in this fictional comic

  5. #10010
    Mighty Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Twins are not clones. You are bringing up a hypothetical thats not the basis of how the resurrection protocols work in this fictional comic
    No, it’s literally the same concept, except one is an accident of birth and another of artificial means. Gabby is not the same person as Laura, nor are Martin and Gary Kemp a single mutant With two bodies. This is a hill I am prepared to die on until I get set off about something else.

  6. #10011
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    Stryfe needs a comeback

  7. #10012
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frobisher View Post
    So if an identical twin died you’d just leave them dead, because you already have one person with that DNA?
    They never said that. The closest argument you could have is that given the nature of Maddie's personality and viewpoints on many of those in Krakoan leadership, it is unlikely that anyone would invoke the Resurrection Protocols. While she is a clone of Jean, the infusion of magic through demons and her lived experiences set her apart from Jean so that she would be considered her own self. Regardless of how she was created.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Twins are not clones. You are bringing up a hypothetical thats not the basis of how the resurrection protocols work in this fictional comic
    Yes

    Quote Originally Posted by Frobisher View Post
    No, it’s literally the same concept, except one is an accident of birth and another of artificial means. Gabby is not the same person as Laura, nor are Martin and Gary Kemp a single mutant With two bodies. This is a hill I am prepared to die on until I get set off about something else.
    Are you saying that all twins are a result of accidental births? If so, who is the accident and who is not? My father is a twin, is he an accident of birth? Not every twin is identical, therefore not all are near exact duplicates of each others genome as a clone would be. As you have pointed out, one is design by nature, the other is design by science. Inherently they are not the same concept unless you are speaking about tapeworms, jellyfish, and the few other species of animals that reproduce asexually. Humans do not fall into that category (at this stage of evolution).

    The bigger argument would be how do you deal with mutants who have been copied/cloned so many times you don't know who the original is to bring back? Or can you bring back specific dupes of some characters (like some of the more autonomous dupes of Madrox)?

  8. #10013
    Mighty Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    They never said that. The closest argument you could have is that given the nature of Maddie's personality and viewpoints on many of those in Krakoan leadership, it is unlikely that anyone would invoke the Resurrection Protocols. While she is a clone of Jean, the infusion of magic through demons and her lived experiences set her apart from Jean so that she would be considered her own self. Regardless of how she was created.
    This is exactly my point. She’s not redundant or a dupe.

  9. #10014
    Fantastic Member Thundershot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Stryfe needs a comeback
    I was just coming to post this. He may be a clone, but he had a whole different life than Cable.

  10. #10015
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundershot View Post
    I was just coming to post this. He may be a clone, but he had a whole different life than Cable.
    The guy's from the future so its really alot easier to bring him back than others as he doesnt need to go through the resurrection protocols. I think a good twist in the current era would have been to have teen Stryfe around instead of Cable. The character's been underutilized in terms of his relationship with the Summer/Greys. He should have followed Cable back to present day at the end of the last X-Force series and popped up about now

  11. #10016
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    That would be great. And then they could use him as the weird kid of Scott and Jean in X-men, while Kid Cable goes back to the future to fulfill his life. Then The Five could bring back adult Cable. Win-win!

  12. #10017
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Bt with over 16 million mutants to resurrect, any duplicates or clones out there, are likely at the bottom of the queue
    And why would that be? The only thing the clones or duplicates share is their identical DNA but they’re their own people.

  13. #10018
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    I think we need to make a distinguition between "clone" and "duplicate". A duplicate would be if someone who's actually alive is resurrected. The newly-created person would actually be the same person as the original, with their memories and personality and everything, just like all of the resurrections of people who died. A clone only shares DNA, but are actually their own person with their own "souls"(in how Hickman seems to define that at least) and minds.

    Maddie might or not be more complicated, but the Cuckoos at least definetely have as much rights to be resurrected as anyone else.
    Last edited by Wiccan; 08-05-2020 at 01:56 AM.

  14. #10019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Stryfe needs a comeback
    Please no,the Summers clan is already big enough,we already have young Cable...I'd rather have a new concept say creating a physical body off Krakoa with their tech or the mole on Krakoa stealing a body from the hatchery to put in Amahl Farouk's essence.That I can back! but not another Summers

  15. #10020
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    I think we need to make a distinguition between "clone" and "duplicate". A duplicate would be if someone who's actually alive is resurrected. The newly-created person would actually be the same person as the original, with their memories and personality and everything, just like all of the resurrections of people who died. A clone only shares DNA, but are actually their own person with their own "souls"(in how Hickman seems to define that at least) and minds.

    Maddie might or not be more complicated, but the Cuckoos at least definetely have as much rights to be resurrected as anyone else.
    That is semantics but it is the exact same thing,a duplicate of a biological body is a clone.I mean on the surface I get what you mean let the duplicate be the vessel or 'sleeve' (altered carbon lingo) of a single consciousness of a mutant, while a clone should be a separate unit of different consciousness.However that in practice is just a quagmire. That's almost like saying the sleeves are a hive mind sequentially and the clones are not.It makes no real sense ultimately unless you want mutants on Krakoa to engage in duplication to create moral dilemmas and existential crises.It only works at telling a deep ethical thought not at surface level funfare
    Last edited by Rev9; 08-05-2020 at 02:34 AM.

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