Thread Drift: Is Amazing Spider-Man accessible to people who see Homecoming?

[Kevinroc]

As much as some books like Guardians are taking their cues from the movies, comic books shouldn't resemble the movies and be their own thing. Just because Homecoming is coming out, doesn't mean the current Spider Man should be reverted back to a teenager or made to coincide with the movie. They are both different timelines and universes.

In short comics should not align with the movies.

Slott shouldn't be obliged to make the book resemble the movie if it's going to derail the current story he's telling. He's done it several times in the past but there just isn't room to do so at the moment so why not let SSM pick up that particular ball?

These should be great concerns to people making the comics. Asking "Why is there not a Vulture story" when the Vulture will appear prominently in the movie should not be controversial.

I didn't say Peter needed to be back in High School. But if someone was coming in from Homecoming to check out a Spider-Man comic, would you hand them the current issue of Amazing Spider-Man? I could see recommending Spectacular. But this thread isn't about what Spectacular looks like it will be doing right. It's about ASM.

[UnknownEntity]

These should be great concerns to people making the comics. Asking "Why is there not a Vulture story" when the Vulture will appear prominently in the movie should not be controversial.

I didn't say Peter needed to be back in High School. But if someone was coming in from Homecoming to check out a Spider-Man comic, would you hand them the current issue of Amazing Spider-Man? I could see recommending Spectacular. But this thread isn't about what Spectacular looks like it will be doing right. It's about ASM.

When the first Spider Man movies came out, the story of the comics did not follow or coincide with the movies because they were all different things.

Every comic book is supposed to be an entry point to a franchise like Spider Man. They're meant to be accessible regardless of movies, tv series or video games. Each genre and platform is their own as is the story they will tell.

[Kevinroc]

When the first Spider Man movies came out, the story of the comics did not follow or coincide with the movies because they were all different things.

Every comic book is supposed to be an entry point to a franchise like Spider Man. They're meant to be accessible regardless of movies, tv series or video games. Each genre and platform is their own as is the story they will tell.

You're not answering the all important question I am asking.

But if someone was coming in from Homecoming to check out a Spider-Man comic, would you hand them the current issue of Amazing Spider-Man?

Saying you would recommend them Spectacular does not count.

(Edit: I'll add that when the first Spider-Man film had come out, JMS had been on the title for about a year. Slott, by this point, has been on ASM for considerably longer. There are a significantly larger number of back issues/trades to cover to get caught up on current ASM relative to what JMS was doing when the first Spidey film came out.)

[Prof. Warren]

You're not answering the all important question I am asking.

But if someone was coming in from Homecoming to check out a Spider-Man comic, would you hand them the current issue of Amazing Spider-Man?

Saying you would recommend them Spectacular does not count.

(Edit: I'll add that when the first Spider-Man film had come out, JMS had been on the title for about a year. Slott, by this point, has been on ASM for considerably longer. There are a significantly larger number of back issues/trades to cover to get caught up on current ASM relative to what JMS was doing when the first Spidey film came out.)

One, you could hand them the new issue. Just because it doesn't line up with the movie doesn't mean it can't be a jumping on point.

But someone coming into the the book might want to start with some trades anyhow, to catch up. Or at the very least, with an issue that began the most recent arc.

If your main determining factor in whether ASM is good or whether Slott is doing his job is whether someone who saw Homecoming could walk into a comic shop and get a comic that was just like what they just saw, I think that's a fairly silly point to judge it on.

Unless Marvel were going to de-age Peter and put him back in high school and have Tony as his mentor and bring back Ned Leeds and suddenly have him being Peter's best friend and also have him be a Korean American now rather than a white dude, that would be impossible. Having the Vulture be the villain for the sake of synergy while having everything else that people saw in the movie be different would still require people to adjust to the fact that the movie and the comic are not identical.

And that is ok. Fans have been coming to comics from other media for years and they've been able to wrap their minds around the differences between what they saw in the cartoons or the movies and what's on the page. I think most people understand that there's a difference between a movie that is a fresh introduction to a character vs a serialized narrative that's been going on for decades.

[Kevinroc]

One, you could hand them the new issue. Just because it doesn't line up with the movie doesn't mean it can't be a jumping on point.

But someone coming into the the book might want to start with some trades anyhow, to catch up. Or at the very least, with an issue that began the most recent arc.

If your main determining factor in whether ASM is good or whether Slott is doing his job is whether someone who saw Homecoming could walk into a comic shop and get a comic that was just like what they just saw, I think that's a fairly silly point to judge it on.

Unless Marvel were going to de-age Peter and put him back in high school and have Tony as his mentor and bring back Ned Leeds and suddenly have him being Peter's best friend and also have him be a Korean American now rather than a white dude, that would be impossible. Having the Vulture be the villain for the sake of synergy while having everything else that people saw in the movie be different would still require people to adjust to the fact that the movie and the comic are not identical.

And that is ok. Fans have been coming to comics from other media for years and they've been able to wrap their minds around the differences between what they saw in the cartoons or the movies and what's on the page. I think most people understand that there's a difference between a movie that is a fresh introduction to a character vs a serialized narrative that's been going on for decades.

I never said Peter needed to be de-aged and sent back to High School. But the current status quo is not something that could be recognized by someone just picking up the new issue. "That's what Spectacular will be for" is not what this thread is about. I recognize that ASM is being written for the long term fan and that can be very rewarding. But that comes with disadvantages too. And I don't see how acknowledging that can be a bad thing.

(Also, The Vulture should not have been relegated to the FCBD Spectacular story.)

[The Negative Zone]

(Also, The Vulture should not have been relegated to the FCBD Spectacular story.)

FCBD seems like the perfect time for synergy stories though.

[Kevinroc]

So what? You could say that about any of the Spider-Man movies, about any of the Captain America or Iron Man movies, for that matter, or any of the DC movies.

You can't expect comics that have been in constant publication for decades to suddenly line up with a movie that's primarily made for newcomers to the character.

If people's interest is piqued by a film, there's many, many avenues to entry into the comic book world.

It's not like Homecoming or its release completely caught Marvel off guard. They've had adequate time to prepare. And ASM doesn't appear to be doing much of anything to take advantage of it. We're not even going to see a new Vulture story. We're getting a tie-in to the big crossover with Otto yet again showing up.

Anyone can start reading ASM with any issue. It's no harder to get the gist of what's happening now jumping into the book cold than it was for people who jumped onto the book ten, twenty or thirty years ago. And the disadvantages of a long running narrative are shared by every single other Marvel and DC superhero title so that's not an ASM thing, it's a comic book thing.

It's not bad to acknowledge that starting to read a comic that's been in publication for years can be daunting for newcomers - that's a challenge that the comic industry is always aware of - but it's wrong to make it seem like ASM is somehow any more difficult to enter into as a new reader than any other long-running book.

This thread is asking about ASM. What other books do or do not do is irrelevant. If I was posting in a thread asking what the Wonder Woman comic was doing right, I would be talking about recent WW issues and trades.

My argument is the current issues of ASM are rewarding for long time readers but can be too daunting to new or lapsed fans at a time when it should be welcoming to them. I know that's why Marvel is launching Spectacular. For those new and lapsed fans to be able to pick up and jump into the world of Spider-Man. But this thread isn't about what Spectacular looks to be doing right.

[Prof. Warren]

It's not like Homecoming or its release completely caught Marvel off guard. They've had adequate time to prepare. And ASM doesn't appear to be doing much of anything to take advantage of it. We're not even going to see a new Vulture story. We're getting a tie-in to the big crossover with Otto yet again showing up.

ASM doesn't have to tie into Homecoming. There's no reason why Slott should plan his storytelling to coincide with this movie or any other. The fact that it isn't doing so doesn't count as any creative failing.

And as been noted, even if Vulture was in the book, the current status quo is so different than the high school setting of Homecoming that it wouldn't really matter from a synergy standpoint. The Lizard was in the book at the time that The Amazing Spider-Man was in theaters but the book in no way otherwise reflected the content of the movie. I mean, should Gwen have been back as Peter's love interest just because she was in the movie? No.

If people are genuinely curious about what Spider-Man's about now in the comics, they can jump into ASM with no problem.

This thread is asking about ASM. What other books do or do not do is irrelevant. If I was posting in a thread asking what the Wonder Woman comic was doing right, I would be talking about recent WW issues and trades.

My argument is the current issues of ASM are rewarding for long time readers but can be too daunting to new or lapsed fans at a time when it should be welcoming to them. I know that's why Marvel is launching Spectacular. For those new and lapsed fans to be able to pick up and jump into the world of Spider-Man. But this thread isn't about what Spectacular looks to be doing right.

Jumping into Spider-Man now is no more daunting now that it has been after any other movie, TV show or cartoon - none of which ever closely resembled what was going on in the book at the time.

Many older readers started reading Amazing because they saw the character on The Electric Company. Were they confused because Spidey wasn't fighting The Wall or The Queen Bee? I doubt it. But if they were, Marvel published Spidey Super Stories at the time.

[SpiderClops]

What is this BS about tying into Homecoming and telling a Vulture story? Don't comic book readers usually hate movie synergy?

[DanMad1977]

I dont understand it either...

[Kevinroc]

ASM doesn't have to tie into Homecoming. There's no reason why Slott should plan his storytelling to coincide with this movie or any other. The fact that it isn't doing so doesn't count as any creative failing.

And as been noted, even if Vulture was in the book, the current status quo is so different than the high school setting of Homecoming that it wouldn't really matter from a synergy standpoint. The Lizard was in the book at the time that The Amazing Spider-Man was in theaters but the book in no way otherwise reflected the content of the movie. I mean, should Gwen have been back as Peter's love interest just because she was in the movie? No.

If people are genuinely curious about what Spider-Man's about now in the comics, they can jump into ASM with no problem.

How would you feel if ASM was currently doing a Vulture story or was soon to begin a Vulture story? Would you think it was a wise decision because The Vulture will be the villain in the movie?

The Lizard being the villain of the first ASM movie played a big part in why we had a Lizard story at the time. And Electro appeared in the issues of ASM around the time the second ASM movie came out. But we are not seeing hide nor hare of Vulture around Homecoming.

I think it's a mistake that we aren't seeing a Vulture in ASM.

Jumping into Spider-Man now is no more daunting now that it has been after any other movie, TV show or cartoon - none of which ever closely resembled what was going on in the book at the time.

Many older readers started reading Amazing because they saw the character on The Electric Company. Were they confused because Spidey wasn't fighting The Wall or The Queen Bee? I doubt it. But if they were, Marvel published Spidey Super Stories at the time.

The Electric Company was before my time.

What you are arguing is against any kind of synergy. "We don't need the Vulture to appear in the flagship title just because the big movie will have him!"

Well, no, you don't. But it's silly to not want to take advantage of that type of exposure. At least I think it's silly.

Launching a new Spectacular is a fine idea. And having Vulture appear there or having Spidey teaming up with the technology clad Ironheart (Stark's situation being out of the hands of the Spider office) are good ideas. But it's not what ASM is doing. And ASM is the flagship book. So me saying "maybe the stuff Spec is doing is what ASM should be doing" should not sound like ludicrous statements.

Edit: I understand you are fully invested in the story ASM has been telling for the last several years. And there is nothing wrong with that. But it makes things more difficult for new or lapsed readers to want to jump on board.

[Prof. Warren]

How would you feel if ASM was currently doing a Vulture story or was soon to begin a Vulture story? Would you think it was a wise decision because The Vulture will be the villain in the movie?

The Lizard being the villain of the first ASM movie played a big part in why we had a Lizard story at the time. And Electro appeared in the issues of ASM around the time the second ASM movie came out. But we are not seeing hide nor hare of Vulture around Homecoming.

I think it's a mistake that we aren't seeing a Vulture in ASM.

Duly noted. And pretty much no one else gives a fig about whether the Vulture is in ASM in time for Homecoming or not.

How would I feel in Vulture was in ASM this summer? The exact same way I felt when Lizard and Electro were in ASM in time for the Andrew Garfield movies. I recognized the attempt at synergy and appreciated seeing these old foes back in the book again. But if the flow of the book dictated that those characters couldn't have appeared, I wouldn't have cared. It's not a big deal. You're trying to make it a big deal because you're worrying on behalf of other people - "what if someone sees Homecoming and then wants to read a new Spider-Man comic? What then???" when that's not really an issue. New fans will be fine whether they read ASM or Spectacular or trades or back issues, or whatever. No one who has ever become interested in a comic book character from watching a movie, TV show or cartoon has ever been able to walk into a comic store and find something that exactly reflects what got them curious in the first place.

[Prof. Warren]

Edit: I understand you are fully invested in the story ASM has been telling for the last several years. And there is nothing wrong with that. But it makes things more difficult for new or lapsed readers to want to jump on board.

It really doesn't. When I started reading ASM back in the day it was in the middle of the original clone saga with the Jackal and Gwen Stacey's clone and so on. There was a lot I didn't know but I quickly caught up. Any reader today can do the same - even easier, thanks to the internet.

The only way to make any comic equally accessible across the board for all readers is to have every issue be a new, self-contained #1 issue. Anything else involves a new reader being willing to get up to speed. And Marvel makes that very easy with recap pages.

[Kevinroc]

Duly noted. And pretty much no one else gives a fig about whether the Vulture is in ASM in time for Homecoming or not.

How would I feel in Vulture was in ASM this summer? The exact same way I felt when Lizard and Electro were in ASM in time for the Andrew Garfield movies. I recognized the attempt at synergy and appreciated seeing these old foes back in the book again. But if the flow of the book dictated that those characters couldn't have appeared, I wouldn't have cared. It's not a big deal. You're trying to make it a big deal because you're worrying on behalf of other people - "what if someone sees Homecoming and then wants to read a new Spider-Man comic? What then???" when that's not really an issue. New fans will be fine whether they read ASM or Spectacular or trades or back issues, or whatever. No one who has ever become interested in a comic book character from watching a movie, TV show or cartoon has ever been able to walk into a comic store and find something that exactly reflects what got them curious in the first place.

If Keaton's rendition of Vulture works as well in the final film as it does in the trailers, I think we could see this villain redefined. I know the Spidey writers haven't seen Homecoming yet. And comics are plotted out and written many months in advance. But thinking the Spidey writers will metaphorically be caught with their pants down on this one? I think I may just be ahead of the curve here.

It really doesn't. When I started reading ASM back in the day it was in the middle of the original clone saga with the Jackal and Gwen Stacey's clone and so on. There was a lot I didn't know but I quickly caught up. Any reader today can do the same - even easier, thanks to the internet.

The only way to make any comic equally accessible across the board for all readers is to have every issue be a new, self-contained #1 issue. Anything else involves a new reader being willing to get up to speed. And Marvel makes that very easy with recap pages.

I never said I thought they needed to send Peter back to High School. You're going to an extreme to shoot down my way of thinking that current issues of ASM are not as new reader friendly as they could be.

[Prof. Warren]

If Keaton's rendition of Vulture works as well in the final film as it does in the trailers, I think we could see this villain redefined. I know the Spidey writers haven't seen Homecoming yet. And comics are plotted out and written many months in advance. But thinking the Spidey writers will metaphorically be caught with their pants down on this one? I think I may just be ahead of the curve here.

It's clear that you think it's really, really, really, REALLY important that the Vulture be in the book. I say it's not such a big deal.

I think it's probably more exciting for ASM readers at the moment to see what's going to happen with Hydra and the Superior Octopus. And yes, new readers can absolutely jump in on that and enjoy it. And they can also pick up Spectacular Spider-Man as well. Nothing's stopping anybody from getting both books if they want to.

I never said I thought they needed to send Peter back to High School. You're going to an extreme to shoot down my way of thinking that current issues of ASM are not as new reader friendly as they could be.

It would be more confusing to a new reader, going just from what they saw in Homecoming, to find that Peter hasn't been a high schooler since the mid-'60s than it would be to see that he's fighting a different adversary than he was in the movie. If your main point is "what about new readers?!?" and hand-wringing about how confused they'll be, there's a whole host of things that a new reader would have to adjust to that have nothing to do with the Vulture. And it's not just Spider-Man in 2017 that would be confusing to these new readers - you could give them an issue from the '70s, '80s, or '90s and it wouldn't be Spider-Man as he is in Homecoming.

New readers have been entering the MU for decades and they seem to manage, no matter how the books line up or don't line up with the outside media of the time.

Did any kid in the early '80s run to the comic store after watching Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends and not have ANY idea how to start reading ASM or SSM just because Iceman and Firestar (or Ms. Lion) were nowhere to be seen?

If people have an interest in the character, they can jump in at any time and figure out what's what very easily.