Civil War I, Eleven Years Later: Who was Right?

[marhawkman]

they were all already registered through the 198 database. Stark came to ask them for help and they were like nah and that was it.

that's not the same as voluntarily signing up...

i didnt say " that was all they were going to do." I said they showed up ask him. They probably had a bunch of other things to do because, if you remember, when midnight hit a bunch of people were doing a Luke and acting stupid all over the place as shown in other books. They were probably doing a sweep of the area and didnt just come for Luke.

Do cops leave all their equipment home when they go to any house to question some one?

Cops don't bring a dozen friends unless they're expecting trouble.

[Sighphi]

Clearly it's NOT just a formality, if they're going to arrest him if he's not in compliance with the law 2 seconds after it goes into effect while he's doing nothing more than sitting on his living room coach.

He needed to give an answer which he did not, instead he decided to attack.
This is all on Luke Cage. He did not say yes i will sign up or no i will no longer be a hero for hire.
That's all that needed to be said. I dont see how anyone can read this in anyway other than Luke Cage making an idiotic decision.

If people are getting locked up in the negative zone and being drafted into service, then it's not just a formality.

If you dont follow a law you should just be ignored, then? BTW, no one was drafted.
People with a powers allowed license were at best reserves for big things like helping people to safety through a Hulk rampage.

One of the many many problems with the SHRA is that it does far more than just having heroes surrender their name (which in and of itself is a problem from a constitutional stand point).

If you dont want to be a hero but still want to use your powers that's all that happens. After some training that shows that you wont cause an accident while flying around town.

Luke had no reason to attack if was just a friendly curtesy call. The inference was they were coming to arrest him, and they were prepared for that, not a curtesy call.

Why are people putting all sorts of words to this very clear post?
Never said it was friendly courtesy, never said "that was all they were going to do".

Iron Man asking to sign up and Luke WOULD NOT give him a YES or NO answer. He said to come at midnight. So they came and when asked to come to the door he attacked. That's the event. Why are you all trying to reframe what happened?

You dont like that super cops were sent out a midnight to sweep up people that were not following the law? Ok, that's nice. How else were SHIELD supposed to do it?

And as far as i know Luke is not a mind reader or has any sort of power to tell him who was outside. Imagine if it was just two normal cops and this dude charge out at them? Then we would've had two cop dead because Luke wanted to be stupid and not provide an answer.

that's not the same as voluntarily signing up...Cops don't bring a dozen friends unless they're expecting trouble.

The mutant conversation was about how bad it was for them cause they are born with powers. And it just told you how it wasnt bad because they were already registered and when Iron Man came to ask for help they said no and nothing happened.

Of course, Cap already acted out and was forming up a rebellion. So SHIELD was prepared just in case, and guess what? They were right. Luke didnt provide an answer, he was just making a spectacle of things.

[XPac]

He needed to give an answer which he did not, instead he decided to attack.
This is all on Luke Cage. He did not say yes i will sign up or no i will no longer be a hero for hire.
That's all that needed to be said. I dont see how anyone can read this in anyway other than Luke Cage making an idiotic decision.



If you dont follow a law you should just be ignored, then? BTW, no one was drafted.
People with a powers allowed license were at best reserves for big things like helping people to safety through a Hulk rampage.



If you dont want to be a hero but still want to use your powers that's all that happens. After some training that shows that you wont cause an accident while flying around town.



Why are people putting all sorts of words to this very clear post?
Never said it was friendly courtesy, never said "that was all they were going to do".

Iron Man asking to sign up and Luke WOULD NOT give him a YES or NO answer. He said to come at midnight. So they came and when asked to come to the door he attacked. That's the event. Why are you all trying to reframe what happened?

You dont like that super cops were sent out a midnight to sweep up people that were not following the law? Ok, that's nice. How else were SHIELD supposed to do it?

And as far as i know Luke is not a mind reader or has any sort of power to tell him who was outside. Imagine if it was just two normal cops and this dude charge out at them? Then we would've had two cop dead because Luke wanted to be stupid and not provide an answer.




The mutant conversation was about how bad it was for them cause they are born with powers. And it just told you how it wasnt bad because they were already registered and when Iron Man came to ask for help they said no and nothing happened.

Of course, Cap already acted out and was forming up a rebellion. So SHIELD was prepared just in case, and guess what? They were right. Luke didnt provide an answer, he was just making a spectacle of things.

Cage didn't say come at midnight. He said Stark would find out at midnight. If Cage wasn't registered by then Stark would know that Cage didn't want to register.

He didn't need to send an army to ask Cage if he was registered or not. He didn't need to ask at all. If he registered, Stark and the goverment would know because he would have registered. If he didn't then they have their answer there too.

Because Cage up to that point had done absolutely NOTHING I would expect SHIELD in this specific situation to do absolutely nothing. They don't need to show up to his door armed... they don't need to do anything at all because absolutely nothing needed to be done. But clearly Stark and SHIELD felt differently. And that's why the SHRA is no longer with us today. They constantly overstep their bounds, and after a point even the government itself realized that.

[Sighphi]

Cage didn't say come at midnight. He said Stark would find out at midnight. If Cage wasn't registered by then Stark would know that Cage didn't want to register.

How do you know what Stark would know?

He didn't need to send an army to ask Cage if he was registered or not. He didn't need to ask at all. If he registered, Stark and the goverment would know because he would have registered. If he didn't then they have their answer there too.

let me play this fanfiction game, too.

Stark is such a good guy that he probably thought that Luke couldn't get out because of the baby so he sent SHIELD to his house to make it easier on poor Luke. Stark is such a good guy.

Because Cage up to that point had done absolutely NOTHING I would expect SHIELD in this specific situation to do absolutely nothing. They don't need to show up to his door armed... they don't need to do anything at all because absolutely nothing needed to be done.

Because SHIELD sent mind readers? Is this what you are going for?

But clearly Stark and SHIELD felt differently.

Maybe cause they didnt have mind readers available. So they needed that old fashioned sound communication.

And that's why the SHRA is no longer with us today. They constantly overstep their bounds, and after a point even the government itself realized that.

SHRA is no longer with us today because Marvel moves from event to event.

So it 'overstepped" because they went to a hero's house to ask a question? That's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much over the line.

[Dabrikishaw]

Trying to turn cartoon characters into something they aren't didn't end well for anyone? Shock. Because seriously, that's the problem with Civil War. It was trying to answer a question that was forced into the narrative of the Marvel Universe to begin with. Literally everyone knows superhero realities are unrealistic nonsense where radiation can let you gain physics defying abilities. So I vote Cap, because his side wasn't the representation of my disinterests in superhero comics.

[XPac]

How do you know what Stark would know?



let me play this fanfiction game, too.

Stark is such a good guy that he probably thought that Luke couldn't get out because of the baby so he sent SHIELD to his house to make it easier on poor Luke. Stark is such a good guy.



Because SHIELD sent mind readers? Is this what you are going for?



Maybe cause they didnt have mind readers available. So they needed that old fashioned sound communication.



SHRA is no longer with us today because Marvel moves from event to event.

So it 'overstepped" because they went to a hero's house to ask a question? That's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much over the line.

If the government and SHIELD have no means of knowing who did and didn't register them ito probably would be hard to go around arresting people for not registering wouldn't it.

Bottom line is if they had no intention of arresting Cage why send an army to his doorstep? He was literally sitting on his couch doing nothing, which is what SHIELD should have been doing in that situation because nothing needed to be done.

[jackolover]

He needed to give an answer which he did not, instead he decided to attack.
This is all on Luke Cage. He did not say yes i will sign up or no i will no longer be a hero for hire.
That's all that needed to be said. I dont see how anyone can read this in anyway other than Luke Cage making an idiotic decision.



If you dont follow a law you should just be ignored, then? BTW, no one was drafted.
People with a powers allowed license were at best reserves for big things like helping people to safety through a Hulk rampage.



If you dont want to be a hero but still want to use your powers that's all that happens. After some training that shows that you wont cause an accident while flying around town.



Why are people putting all sorts of words to this very clear post?
Never said it was friendly courtesy, never said "that was all they were going to do".

Iron Man asking to sign up and Luke WOULD NOT give him a YES or NO answer. He said to come at midnight. So they came and when asked to come to the door he attacked. That's the event. Why are you all trying to reframe what happened?

You dont like that super cops were sent out a midnight to sweep up people that were not following the law? Ok, that's nice. How else were SHIELD supposed to do it?

And as far as i know Luke is not a mind reader or has any sort of power to tell him who was outside. Imagine if it was just two normal cops and this dude charge out at them? Then we would've had two cop dead because Luke wanted to be stupid and not provide an answer.




The mutant conversation was about how bad it was for them cause they are born with powers. And it just told you how it wasnt bad because they were already registered and when Iron Man came to ask for help they said no and nothing happened.

Of course, Cap already acted out and was forming up a rebellion. So SHIELD was prepared just in case, and guess what? They were right. Luke didnt provide an answer, he was just making a spectacle of things.

It really does go to the point that Tony Stark expected Luke Cage to join Captain Americas resistance, so Tony didn't want one more resistance fighter to build up the numbers. That's what I think this was about. No, Luke shouldn't have thrown a couch through the door. But no, SHIELD shouldn't have come to eliminate him as another member of Caps army. But there you have it. Tony guessed right, that Luke was going to join up with Cap. I think that was good tactics by Tony, it's just that the arrest failed.

[jackolover]

Trying to turn cartoon characters into something they aren't didn't end well for anyone? Shock. Because seriously, that's the problem with Civil War. It was trying to answer a question that was forced into the narrative of the Marvel Universe to begin with. Literally everyone knows superhero realities are unrealistic nonsense where radiation can let you gain physics defying abilities. So I vote Cap, because his side wasn't the representation of my disinterests in superhero comics.

It's an interesting point. Cap represents the suspension of disbelief of comicbooks. Tony Starks side represents the nonfiction stance of the real world. It's the Civil War of suspension of disbelief vs real world.

[Sighphi]

If the government and SHIELD have no means of knowing who did and didn't register them ito probably would be hard to go around arresting people for not registering wouldn't it.

You said they should've known Luke's answer without Luke giving an answer. That makes no sense and puts them in a bad spot when it comes to the law.

The reason SHIELD needed an answer from him is to have it on record. They cant just go cowboy guns blazing based on assumptions. The actions SHIELD takes are based on what Luke does and we saw what he did.

Bottom line is if they had no intention of arresting Cage why send an army to his doorstep?

So they shouldn't have come prepare for all outcomes? SHIELD should've sent a couple unprepared agents to die?
Luke at this point is basically a standard Asgardian, in your head the right way to handle this is to come in as if nothing going to happen?

He was literally sitting on his couch doing nothing, which is what SHIELD should have been doing in that situation because nothing needed to be done.

Luke needed to provide an answer, that's what had to be done. Why should SHIELD do nothing? It's their job. They need to catalog super people and what they were going to do. Become hero, get a powers license, state they will not hero or use powers.

That's the law. Luke would've been left alone in his house if he said no i will not be a hero so SHIELD has that on record.

It really does go to the point that Tony Stark expected Luke Cage to join Captain Americas resistance, so Tony didn't want one more resistance fighter to build up the numbers. That's what I think this was about. No, Luke shouldn't have thrown a couch through the door. But no, SHIELD shouldn't have come to eliminate him as another member of Caps army. But there you have it. Tony guessed right, that Luke was going to join up with Cap. I think that was good tactics by Tony, it's just that the arrest failed.

I dont know how people can say that they shouldn't have come prepare against Asgardian equivalent. And he is probably better than a standard Asgardian cause of the skin. That would be a suicide mission.

[XPac]

2

You said they should've known Luke's answer without Luke giving an answer. That makes no sense and puts them in a bad spot when it comes to the law.

The reason SHIELD needed an answer from him is to have it on record. They cant just go cowboy guns blazing based on assumptions. The actions SHIELD takes are based on what Luke does and we saw what he did.



So they shouldn't have come prepare for all outcomes? SHIELD should've sent a couple unprepared agents to die?
Luke at this point is basically a standard Asgardian, in your head the right way to handle this is to come in as if nothing going to happen?




Luke needed to provide an answer, that's what had to be done. Why should SHIELD do nothing? It's their job. They need to catalog super people and what they were going to do. Become hero, get a powers license, state they will not hero or use powers.

That's the law. Luke would've been left alone in his house if he said no i will not be a hero so SHIELD has that on record.



I dont know how people can say that they shouldn't have come prepare against Asgardian equivalent. And he is probably better than a standard Asgardian cause of the skin. That would be a suicide mission.

If he registers then they have it on record that he registers. If he doesn't register then they have it on record that he'should not registered. Either way there'a no reason to show up at his door without an army unless they plan on arresting him.

Given that Cage was literally doing nothing, SHIELD in turn had literally nothing to do here.

If it's like a fun license then I don't have to tell the government I'm not going to register and they certainly don't need to send an army to my dor to ask. Me registerin or not registering is my answer.

[Sighphi]

2

If he registers then they have it on record that he registers. If he doesn't register then they have it on record that he'should not registered. Either way there'a no reason to show up at his door without an army unless they plan on arresting him.

Given that Cage was literally doing nothing, SHIELD in turn had literally nothing to do here.

this a law and the law enforcement are not going to put into practice based on assumptions.

Luke needs to state what he is going do to.

Why are you putting it on the people whose job is to make sure everything is happens within the law in a position that ignores the law?

Why are you not putting anything on Luke who all he needed to do is provide an answer.

tell me, what exactly is Luke accomplishing by not stating his position and then attacking?

If it's like a fun license then I don't have to tell the government I'm not going to register and they certainly don't need to send an army to my dor to ask.

Dont really know where you are getting this idea that if you dont provide proper info it's all cool.

BTW, again, Luke is on the same level as an asgardian. And sending people prepared was proven right.

Me registerin or not registering is my answer.

There are 3 types of solutions, Hero, powers license, and not using powers. How exactly do you know what Luke is going to do by not providing an answer?

That's not how enacting a law works. You complain that this law is unconstitutional while at the same time saying the law enforcement you make up answers for people and act like they want. This makes no sense.

[XPac]

this a law and the law enforcement are not going to put into practice based on assumptions.

Luke needs to state what he is going do to.

Why are you putting it on the people whose job is to make sure everything is happens within the law in a position that ignores the law?

Why are you not putting anything on Luke who all he needed to do is provide an answer.

tell me, what exactly is Luke accomplishing by not stating his position and then attacking?



Dont really know where you are getting this idea that if you dont provide proper info it's all cool.

BTW, again, Luke is on the same level as an asgardian. And sending people prepared was proven right.




There are 3 types of solutions, Hero, powers license, and not using powers. How exactly do you know what Luke is going to do by not providing an answer?

That's not how enacting a law works. You complain that this law is unconstitutional while at the same time saying the law enforcement you make up answers for people and act like they want. This makes no sense.

I'm not saying law makes up answers ... I'm saying if Luke didn't register by the time the law had passed then they had his answer. He'said not registering. The fact that they sent an army after him for not registering tells you all you need to know about the law.

And that why everyone including Stark and the government in hindsight called it a mistake. They overstepped their bounds and everyone ended up paying the price for it.

[marhawkman]

I'm not saying law makes up answers ... I'm saying if Luke didn't register by the time the law had passed then they had his answer. He'said not registering. The fact that they sent an army after him for not registering tells you all you need to know about the law.

And that why everyone including Stark and the government in hindsight called it a mistake. They overstepped their bounds and everyone ended up paying the price for it.

Yeah, It wasn't justice, not for anyone. and in that regard it was a terrible thing to have as a law.

[HaveAtThee]

No one was right. Trying to tell a Watchmen-esque story and applying it to greater Marvel sucked as a concept, IMHO.

[XPac]

No one was right. Trying to tell a Watchmen-esque story and applying it to greater Marvel sucked as a concept, IMHO.

Perhaps the fact that the SHRA ended up failing miserably in the end was their way of saying you can't apply Watchmen esque ideas to the greater marvel.