Should heroes in serious relationships ALWAYS reveal their secret IDs ASAP?

[Spidercide]

Encountered this post and whilst I disagree with it and think they are going way too sociology 101 over it I wanted to discuss it nevertheless

Separate though tangentially-related issue: I am also in no way a fan of the “I MUST LIE TO PROTECT MY FRAGILE GIRLFRIEND” trope. It’s sexist, patriarchal, and condescending. Mary Jane deserves the right to make an informed decision about dating Peter, a superhero, and all that entails.

Basically are superheroes like Spider-Man immoral for not being upfront about their double lives with the people they date?

My thoughts:

First of all the poster is ignoring ever example of female heroes like Spider-Girl and some versions of Wonder Woman who've done this exact same thing when they are dating men.

Second of all statistically someone will have multiple relationships and most of those won't work out, thereby meaning a lot of potential security leaks might be created by a hero telling even the people they are serious about romantically.

Yeah you are letting this one person understand the risks they are getting into and might be exposed to. On the other hand if through them your identity is compromised it's a guarantee EVERYONE you know will be targets. Keeping the circle small keeps people safe.

I'm not saying if a hero wants to marry someone they should keep their identities a secret. But being in a serious relationship doesn't guarantee anything. They could get serious but be over within the year. And even serious relationships doesn't obligate anyone divulging their most intimate darkest secrets immediately. Trust is built up over time and there are usually layers of emotional intimacy between people in a relationship.

Given a hero's identity is literally a life or death secret it's not something that should be given away lightly. If marriage isn't something someone should propose unless they are very certain of their own feelings and the chances of the other person's agreement, then surely something as serious as this should carry at least the same amount of weight.

That is to say no hero should divulge their secret identity unless they are fairly confident that their confidant will be able to keep it, even if their relationship doesn't work out.

After all in theory a hero's love interest could become ill tempered towards them during or after their relationship and choose to use their secret against them. This almost happened when Jessica Carradine learned Ben Reilly's secret identity.

[UnknownEntity]

I concur with your assessment. While its true that when in a serious relationship, the two participants should be honest and open with each other, the revelation of such an important secret needs to be done when the hero or heroine has a certainty that his or her partner will not divulge it. A bad breakup might lead to a vengeful ex to get payback by means of divulging one's identity. But even a normal no hard feelings breakup might make that ex a target if the hero or heroine's enemies learn that she knows who the hero is. Batman had a love interest such as this where she was killed for knowing who he really was.

In many ways, if the hero or heroine reveals their secret identity to their partner, then they are making an unofficial life long commitment or pact.

In fact, the best example I can think of is this: Miles Morales Ultimate Spider Man #4 (MJ telling Miles about her and Peter and the secret identity dilemma)

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...7b98b4c07c.jpg

[Spidercide]

I concur with your assessment. While its true that when in a serious relationship, the two participants should be honest and open with each other, the revelation of such an important secret needs to be done when the hero or heroine has a certainty that his or her partner will not divulge it. A bad breakup might lead to a vengeful ex to get payback by means of divulging one's identity. But even a normal no hard feelings breakup might make that ex a target if the hero or heroine's enemies learn that she knows who the hero is. Batman had a love interest such as this where she was killed for knowing who he really was.

In many ways, if the hero or heroine reveals their secret identity to their partner, then they are making an unofficial life long commitment or pact.

In fact, the best example I can think of is this: Miles Morales Ultimate Spider Man #4 (MJ telling Miles about her and Peter and the secret identity dilemma)

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...7b98b4c07c.jpg

Excellent point.

For all the poster's bemoaning over how 'sexist' it is for a hero to lie (but female heroes get a pass I guess) divulging that secret is a massive burden they have to bear forever and might not want to.

[UnknownEntity]

Excellent point.

For all the poster's bemoaning over how 'sexist' it is for a hero to lie (but female heroes get a pass I guess) divulging that secret is a massive burden they have to bear forever and might not want to.

Well, I don't know about the poster where you got that quote from, but all I am doing is responding to your post. Its a double edged sword the deal with secret identities and with many more aspects of life.

[Inversed]

In fact, the best example I can think of is this: Miles Morales Ultimate Spider Man #4 (MJ telling Miles about her and Peter and the secret identity dilemma)

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...7b98b4c07c.jpg

Especially considering how that turned out for Miles in the end...

[Spidercide]

For the record the poster has other weird ass beliefs about Spider-Man too. Like how he's an example of 'toxic masculinity' because he picked a fight with the Avengers and FF in the silver age (when every marvel hero was a jerk to one another) and pushed Wolverine out a window on JMS' run (when he was literally calling him and his wife stupid)

[Grim Ghost]

If you choose to put many superhero concepts under the microscope you are going to find things that you don't care for. Superhero ideas just don't fly in real life no matter how hard people want to push that. Roll with the tropes or move on to other stuff is my suggestion.

BTW I wasn't trying to be a jerk in my response, I just really believe that. You are trying to look for something deep in a somewhat shallow pool.

[murderousjohnny]

I would just ignore it. I've experienced views like that with evangelion(anime) fandom...people like that seem incapable of turning off their sociology lens so they use it inappropriately. By inappropriate I mean they misuse it or use it for the wrong thing so it makes them unconsciously stupid and you won't change their minds. It's like people who do this willfully ignore context of a story and common sense for the sake of maintaining their view which IMO is very bizarre but it's more common then you'd imagine. That being said I'd just respond with that Miles Morales link and leave it at that.

[UnknownEntity]

For the record the poster has other weird ass beliefs about Spider-Man too. Like how he's an example of 'toxic masculinity' because he picked a fight with the Avengers and FF in the silver age (when every marvel hero was a jerk to one another) and pushed Wolverine out a window on JMS' run (when he was literally calling him and his wife stupid)

I loved that scene. Made Peter look like a certified badass.

Peter Badass.jpg

[SpiderClops]

Separate though tangentially-related issue: I am also in no way a fan of the “I MUST LIE TO PROTECT MY FRAGILE GIRLFRIEND” trope. It’s sexist, patriarchal, and condescending. Mary Jane deserves the right to make an informed decision about dating Peter, a superhero, and all that entails.

Sexist? SEXIST?! Whatever my feelings on this topic, Peter not revealing his secret identity to his girlfriends is in no way sexist. That statement is so ignorant that I'm not even going to say why it's not sexist.

I loved that scene. Made Peter look like a certified badass.

Peter Badass.jpg

Pushing Logan through a window is never NOT justified.

[WebLurker]

I concur with your assessment. While its true that when in a serious relationship, the two participants should be honest and open with each other, the revelation of such an important secret needs to be done when the hero or heroine has a certainty that his or her partner will not divulge it. A bad breakup might lead to a vengeful ex to get payback by means of divulging one's identity. But even a normal no hard feelings breakup might make that ex a target if the hero or heroine's enemies learn that she knows who the hero is. Batman had a love interest such as this where she was killed for knowing who he really was.

In many ways, if the hero or heroine reveals their secret identity to their partner, then they are making an unofficial life long commitment or pact.

In fact, the best example I can think of is this: Miles Morales Ultimate Spider Man #4 (MJ telling Miles about her and Peter and the secret identity dilemma)

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...7b98b4c07c.jpg

Actually, that USM comic was one of the first things that I though of when seeing the original post. In fact, I think the USM series as a whole showed how letting a significant other in on the secret could be the best thing they could've done (Peter's case) and their worst mistake (Miles' case). It's also pretty interesting that both of them weren't really thinking of the long-term ramifications in the first place and kind of did it impulsively (although since Peter and Mary Jane had been close most of their lives, I see why he'd think it'd be safe to trust her; I kinda thought that Miles was really jumping the gun with Katie Bishop, even if his wish to be honest is admirable in its own way).

Also, taking things from a out-of-universe perspective, you tend to get different kinds of stories depending on whether the significant other knows the secret or not (compare the first couple Spider-Man movies with the USM comic in how Mary Jane factors into those stories). I think either can be good story-telling fodder, but the more serious the relationship is intended to be, the harder it is to leave one party in the dark.

[UnknownEntity]

Actually, that USM comic was one of the first things that I though of when seeing the original post. In fact, I think the USM series as a whole showed how letting a significant other in on the secret could be the best thing they could've done (Peter's case) and their worst mistake (Miles' case). It's also pretty interesting that both of them weren't really thinking of the long-term ramifications in the first place and kind of did it impulsively (although since Peter and Mary Jane had been close most of their lives, I see why he'd think it'd be safe to trust her; I kinda thought that Miles was really jumping the gun with Katie Bishop, even if his wish to be honest is admirable in its own way).

Also, taking things from a out-of-universe perspective, you tend to get different kinds of stories depending on whether the significant other knows the secret or not (compare the first couple Spider-Man movies with the USM comic in how Mary Jane factors into those stories). I think either can be good story-telling fodder, but the more serious the relationship is intended to be, the harder it is to leave one party in the dark.

Great post! Indeed its very possible Bendis' USM before Miles Morales is the best characterization of Spider Man in any medium.

Peter and MJ in USM not thinking of the long term ramifications is indicative and characteristic of the fact that they're still kids/teenagers and thus haven't thought things through with the near countless possibilities but like you said, the two had known each other forever for them to think so and even with that, they were very mature for their age.

[Spidercide]

Great post! Indeed its very possible Bendis' USM before Miles Morales is the best characterization of Spider Man in any medium.

Peter and MJ in USM not thinking of the long term ramifications is indicative and characteristic of the fact that they're still kids/teenagers and thus haven't thought things through with the near countless possibilities but like you said, the two had known each other forever for them to think so and even with that, they were very mature for their age.

If we're taking every version in and of itself (so 616 would have to lose points for OOC crap) then the Spec cartoon is easily the best characterization of Spider-Man ever.

[UnknownEntity]

If we're taking every version in and of itself (so 616 would have to lose points for OOC crap) then the Spec cartoon is easily the best characterization of Spider-Man ever.

Spectacular Spider Man cartoon was nigh perfect in its characterization of Peter Parker and most importantly Spider Man AND his insanely hilarious quips.

Spider Man TAS from the 90's was also a nigh perfect characterization with deep and faithful roots into its source material but without some of the nonsense of Earth 616.

Spider Man 1, the first movie was an awesome characterization of Peter Parker but was inferior in its portrayal of a funny Spider Man.

[WebLurker]

Great post! Indeed its very possible Bendis' USM before Miles Morales is the best characterization of Spider Man in any medium.

Peter and MJ in USM not thinking of the long term ramifications is indicative and characteristic of the fact that they're still kids/teenagers and thus haven't thought things through with the near countless possibilities but like you said, the two had known each other forever for them to think so and even with that, they were very mature for their age.

Thanks.

If we're taking every version in and of itself (so 616 would have to lose points for OOC crap) then the Spec cartoon is easily the best characterization of Spider-Man ever.

Maybe. It was a good cartoon, at any rate.