Editor Nick Lowe discusses Superior Octopus

[Mister Mets]

He starred as the main villain in ASM #600.

He was the background villain during all of Big Time, running up to Ends Of The Earth, where he was the big bad.

Superior was the start of Otto-Palooza, during which he also starred in Avenging.

He played a pretty major role in Spider-Verse, including down to being the one to give the big motivational speech to Uncle Ben of that universe.

He's been the background baddie for much of Vol 4, as we've seen him scheming in the Living Brain. There was even a whole issue devoted to him during Clonespiracy in ASM.

He was the one that helped stop the zombie-frequency-outbreak-whatever-the-crap in Clonespiracy.

Now we're getting another entire arc devoted to him, and one tied into a big Marvel event at that.

We can't go 20 issues without getting some kind of Ock story now.

I think even you have to admit that's a whole lot of Otto. Again, Norman was the big bad of the entire Marvel U and didn't get nearly this amount of attention in the pages of Spider-Man.

If you want to go with ASM 600 on. He popped up in an anniversary issue.

He was one of the main villains in a story involving a lot of other bad guys (ASM 642-647.) So he took a breather for 40+ issues.

He made a few intermittent appearances as a member of the Sinister Six (ASM 648, 659-660, 676) before the big clash in Ends of the Earth (682-687.) During those times, he always shared the stage with other villains. That part wasn't all that unusual, especially in the context of big bads (Look at how many issues Jackal popped up in from ASM 129-149, or Harry Osborn in Spectacular 176-200.)

Norman made a lot of appearances after the Clone Saga.

When he was the big bad of the Marvel U, his appearances were more restricted since it requires coordinating continuity with other titles. And his appearances wouldn't be as special given his role in other books (I think what Marvel did during Brand New Day with Norman worked pretty well in making his appearances in Spider-Man a bigger deal than would otherwise be the case.)

The major issue with Ock isn't how often he appears in terms of issue percentages, but how long the story's been going on (or how they shift from one story to another without permanent defeats.) But the reception seems positive.

[Metamorphosis]

If you want to go with ASM 600 on. He popped up in an anniversary issue.

No, he was the main villain of an anniversary issue. Just like he was in #700.

He made a few intermittent appearances as a member of the Sinister Six (ASM 648, 659-660, 676) before the big clash in Ends of the Earth (682-687.) During those times, he always shared the stage with other villains. That part wasn't all that unusual, especially in the context of big bads (Look at how many issues Jackal popped up in from ASM 129-149, or Harry Osborn in Spectacular 176-200.)

Uh--he was the leader of the Sinister Six, and got more page time than any other villain.

Just like he's unquestionably gotten more page time than any other "villain" for the last eight years.

Jackal and Harry Osborn's stories had a defined ending. This is just open-ended to the point where Ock is a second protagonist (and one the writer would clearly rather be writing over Peter Parker).

The major issue with Ock isn't how often he appears in terms of issue percentages, but how long the story's been going on (or how they shift from one story to another without permanent defeats.) But the reception seems positive.

All the more reason to shift him, and Slott, to an Otto title.

[Lee]

Doctor Octopus had been under-utilised for years. Rebuilding him as Spider-Man's arch-enemy is one of the best things Dan Slott has done with the Spider-Man series.

[Metamorphosis]

Doctor Octopus had been under-utilised for years. Rebuilding him as Spider-Man's arch-enemy is one of the best things Dan Slott has done with the Spider-Man series.

Was he? He starred in a ton of arcs during Spider-Man 2 the movie, even had his own miniseries then, a couple of them.

JMS & Jenkins both gave him pretty high profile arcs during their runs.

If anything, he got lost in the embargo on all existing villains post-OMD.

There's been no shortage of classic Ock stories.

Does he have to basically be the only classic villain that gets any page time now?

[Frontier]

Was he? He starred in a ton of arcs during Spider-Man 2 the movie, even had his own miniseries then, a couple of them.

JMS & Jenkins both gave him pretty high profile arcs during their runs.

If anything, he got lost in the embargo on all existing villains post-OMD.

There's been no shortage of classic Ock stories.

Does he have to basically be the only classic villain that gets any page time now?

Not to mention he's a major villain in most Spider-Man cartoons, if obviously never exactly on the same level of the Goblin.

[Lee]

Was he? He starred in a ton of arcs during Spider-Man 2 the movie, even had his own miniseries then, a couple of them.

They were mostly disposable and didn't have any impact on the ongoing story of Spider-Man's life.

JMS & Jenkins both gave him pretty high profile arcs during their runs.

He barely even did anything in JMS's story. That was more about the other villain who stole his technology.

There's been no shortage of classic Ock stories.

1995 - 2008 he wasn't being used to his full potential.

[comicscollector]

The Alex Ross covers of Amazing Spider-Man are all kinds of awesome.
So i am looking forward reading about Doctor Octopus with the Hydra now.
The costume is cool.
Have been interesting that Doctor Octopus have been a major villain in so many stories now,Green Goblin is a great classic villain as well but it is nice to see Doctor Octopus being the main villain of the stories.

[Metamorphosis]

They were mostly disposable and didn't have any impact on the ongoing story of Spider-Man's life.

He barely even did anything in JMS's story. That was more about the other villain who stole his technology.

1995 - 2008 he wasn't being used to his full potential.

The Negative Exposure miniseries was a pretty good read. There was a Year One-styled story about Otto's formative years as well at that time.

The whole point of the JMS arc was that Carlyle stole Otto's schtick. Jenkins used him in couple arcs, actually.

Whether he was being used to his full potential is debatable in that time frame. He spent some of those years dead, but not for long.

I'd say now he's outlasted a lot of his usefulness at this point and could use a break for awhile. Just my take.

[Pav]

Pav, you seem a little more reasonable than some around here. You'll have to excuse some of us that are sick of having Otto be the de-facto deuteragonist of the Spider-Man book for well over five years now and counting. It's overdone, and by now wearing more than a little thin. Precious few other villains get even any focus. If Slott seems so intent on writing Otto, than having him star in his own book seems like a fair compromise. Otherwise, Otto needs a break. Not even when they brought Norman back did he drive the narrative to this insane extent. I don't expect you to agree, but I am trying to explain where some of us are coming from.

Nothing is more overdone than the negativity about Slott from you and others. How many posts have I read declaring Slott to be the absolute worst? And how many were mostly just rants? Too many. I've excused it, but I'm getting tired of it. Maybe you can identify with reading something so bothersome.

Your opinion that Slott's overused Ock is only that: your opinion. And your logic isn't always as strong as you might think it is. For example, saying "few other villains...get any focus" is just not true. One of the things I love best about Slott's work is his use of so many characters from so many eras. And I could list all the villains who Slott has used - Lizard, the Jackal... he made Alistair Smythe interesting for glob's sake! But why would I? I could go through my trades and list every villain Slott has used, and you'd just say, "Yeah, but none got used as much as Ock!" Based on what I've read in past posts, you'd just keep arguing, and eventually the argument would become about something else, and then something else, and now there's nothing worthwhile in the conversation because it's just a bunch of posts going back and forth arguing without any real purpose.

And I'm HAPPY that Ock actually feels like a huge threat now. Slott's Ock is the VERY FIRST TIME in my two decades of reading Spidey comics that Ock actually feels like he could give Osborn a run for his money as the premier Spidey villain. And when Norman was brought back after the Clone Saga, he DID drive the narrative just as much as Ock does now - if not more! The post-CS/pre-reboot was FULL of Osborn! It's just that, back then, there were four Spidey titles, and each could do their own thing! But Osborn was in all of them at some point. Spider-Hunt? Identity Crisis? Right? Now the question is, are you going to argue that point? How important is it to you?

This is a public forum I'm allowed to complain if I want to.

I hope you're a young person, because this is a juvenile response. If you're an adult, you have the freedom to smoke a pack and drink a bottle of Jack as soon as you wake up - but that doesn't mean you should do it.

Maybe you could consider that other people don't want to read the rantings of an unfriendly poster.

a lot of you (not all) become unreasonable, and extremely nasty, when you perceive an attack on your Otto fanfiction.

Does this strike you as an overtly friendly post to a fellow member of these boards? You seemingly have a need to put down what other people really enjoy. Why is it so necessary that other people know how much you hate Slott's Spidey work?

Whether you believe me or not, you aren't as reasonable as you might think; and you can be nasty as well. I only point it out because, sometimes, you provide interesting analysis. I WANT you to post your thoughts and feelings. You often have interesting takes. I just wish you could be a better member of the community.

It's not fun to read negative posts that essentially say the same thing, day after day.

-Pav, who wishes people would provide constructive criticism more often...