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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member Prime's Avatar
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    No, not the main Superman, sorry. But if I had to change Kal-El I rather he be Hispanic, Asian or middleastern. Indian, Arabic, ect.

  2. #32
    Astonishing Member Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    One idea that I thought was interesting was something American Alien explored and that was that Kryptonians don't have a human appearance at all and he just took the form of whoever found him first. So because a white couple found him, he took the form of a white couple. Maybe later in his career he learns that he could change shape to whatever form he wants. And creates a number of personalities with different races or even genders. So he takes the form of women sometimes. He uses them for things like getting stories as Clark or for Superman to go undercover.
    No it wasn't. DC didn't allow it.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    It's certainly an interesting thing to think about, but then I also think who inspired him? Doug Fairbanks, Clark Gable, Harold Lloyd, and fictional characters like Doc Savage, John Carter, and Popeye. "Plain white" guys. Clark Kent is a white guy raised in the Midwest by two white parents. For the first few decades, to get anywhere in pop culture, he had to be, and now that's just who he has been. It certainly doesn't create much conflict in the predominant comic markets: the US, Canada, Belgium, France, Brazil, Mexico, Germany, Belgium, and Japan. Most comic readers look just like him and I think the lack of reception from fans who don't can be exaggerated.

    I don't think that's the battle to fight. Here's some things I'd rather see, if you follow: Tom King on Steel, Khary Randolph drawing Flash, and Ron Wimberly given a featured product for FCBD. Francis Manapul is a writing artist of Filipino descent, and while that doesn't have to come up, it's pretty great. And what about the big, big names? Geoff Johns likes Cyborg, put him on there with Ivan Reis for a run as long as their Aquaman.
    I don't disagree that he is who he is at that point, certainly in particular in the comics. I'll take all the expys and new characters with gladness, but Superman is Superman at this point and changing him makes him ... well, not quite Superman. But also not who the creators originally created.

    But he's totally Jewish. I mean, Kal-El is legit just Hebrew for "Star-Child", so his Kryptonian heritage is sort of subtexty for not just immigrant raised by white parents in America, but "adopted Jewish kid raised in the Bible Belt" too. Which is rife for opportunity for interesting storytelling dynamics. Superman as a teenager dealing with local Christian stuff but learning about Kryptonian religion, perhaps.
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  4. #34
    Astonishing Member FishyZombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf.B View Post
    That's a legitimate response FishyZombie. I primarily focused on African-American because of the history associated with the ethnicity and that this ethnicity has been part of Kansas agricultural economy since the Emancipation Proclamation. I'd love to read your exploration of why you feel that way though, if you feel up to it.
    thank you. All I can really add is that different minority groups have different experiences, challenges etc. The ones from the asian and hispanic communities seem to have more parallels and as a result more compatible to Superman's character and the themes surrounding his character, than african american. You know, speaking very broadly, not trying to make false equivalencies. People see a black guy walking down the street, people will at least assume he's american, can't necessarily say that for other minorities. And the thing about Superman is that he is american, he was raised there, his adoptive parents were american, but people look at him and they see an alien.

  5. #35
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    Not going to lie main continuity it has to be classic Superman I don't even like the trunks being gone. But elseworlds/The Multiverse different versions of Superman with different looking ethnicities outside of the traditional Caucasian is interesting and welcoming to me and I would mind them being explored. Superman had the most idyllic upbringing possible he was found by wonderful people, raised in a safe middle class environment, and never faced any prejudice. He grew up seeing the best of America and that informed his opinion and him believing in it's best. But other versions who didn't have that upbringing and seeing how that inform their outlook would be interesting. Like Hernan Guerra/Lor-Zod in Gods and Monster who was raised by migrant workers and grew up poor and faced prejudice and seeing how that changed his opinion of the status quo in America compared to Clark.

  6. #36
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Disclaimer: This isn't directed out anyone in particular. This is directed at the general idea. Wolf.B, this is in no way an "attack" on you or what you believe. I respect you opinion, and anyone who doesn't agree with me.

    I'm an African American male (Nigerian and Brazilian decent), and I particularly hate it when people say "Superman's white-male-privileged-ass needs to be another race." One of the reasons why I hate it is because the instant got-to is "hey, here's a smart idea: lets make him black." That is without a doubt the most offensive piece of garbage ever, to me. Being black shouldn't be the equivalent to a color swap in Street Fighter that you pick because the default looks boring. It's downright tokenism along with the "one-gay-BFF" and "wise-old-black-person" BS. Don't paint a character my or any other flavor of the month color just to feel like you're progressive. That shit does more to make the race you've just put on blast uncomfortable. Makes me feel like the dude from Get Out. You're using the change of skin color as a piggyback. It's still racist AF if you proclaim foolishness like "Clark would be less boring if he were black." What, being an alien demi god looks mundane next to a changed skin pigmentation?

    Clark's alienation has nothing to do with the color of his or anyone else's skin. His alienation comes from being a first generation Kryptonian American. It's freakin cultural, man! That's a MUCH wider net in today's climate than shamelessly belittling the REAL issues that people of color face all the time. You're literally taking those real issues and truing a famously white character into one of those other races so you can cash in on the emotional aspect. Do we REALLY not see what's wrong with that?! "Oh, white is out, so lets move on to a more sympathetic and cool race."

    THAT'S THE ACTUAL PLOT TO THE MOVIE GET OUT!!!!!!

    For the record, I LOVE President Superman. But the reason why that's not a shameless race switch with no substance to it is because of the context. President Obama famously proclaimed that he was from Krypton (in jest), and there was a very mythologized nature to his election (for a number of reasons). He was a real world figure that was positioned for loving parody with a slight bite to it. In comes President Superman. He isn't the idea of "what if Superman were black" he's the idea of "what if President Obama was secretly Superman" with all the implication (good and bad) that come with it. There's also the bonus that he's an alternate version.

    I'll also say a resounding NO to the "mixed" angle. That is the media definition of "non threatening ethnicity." You wanna have a mixed race couple in a TV show or movie? Be sure to make one of them mixed so it's not so much of a sore thumb! Media picks "mixed" characters when they want all of the sympathy of a darker skinned character but in a "less threatening" package.

    Superman is a space Jewish man, and that's okay. That's actually really, really cool. I don't have to be a Jewish guy to sympathize with, understand, like, and root for Superman. I'm not little white British boy, but I LOVE me some Potter. I'm not a white female, but Katniss is pretty cool.

    You know what hero deals with physical race inherently better than Superman? Martian Manhunter. Know what hero can be literally any race or gender he wants? Martian Manhunter. You know who'd be great in a movie? Martian Manhunter. You know who does the fresh-off-the-boat immigrant thing better than Superman? Martian Manhunter. You know who Superman doesn't need to be? Martian Manhunter.

    Side note for clarity: My hate for the obligatory race change doesn't extend to movies, some supporting characters (case by case. But it can't just be for the sake of "adding color" because f#%k that saying.), TV, alternate comic worlds (obviously), or previously not (strongly) racially defined characters (Lois' mom is an example. Thus, this allows for a slight "loophole" in her race for me personally). In regards to films specifically, I bend my rule because of an actor's ability. However, my stipulation would be that you don't play the character any differently or in a way that enforces specific preconceptions that come with whatever the changed race is (Perry White is still Perry White even if he's black). This applies to sexuality too, for me.

    Rant mode complete. Returning to your friendly neighborhood Superlad now
    Last edited by Superlad93; 06-13-2017 at 02:42 PM.
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  7. #37
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K. Jones View Post
    But he's totally Jewish. I mean, Kal-El is legit just Hebrew for "Star-Child", so his Kryptonian heritage is sort of subtexty for not just immigrant raised by white parents in America, but "adopted Jewish kid raised in the Bible Belt" too. Which is rife for opportunity for interesting storytelling dynamics. Superman as a teenager dealing with local Christian stuff but learning about Kryptonian religion, perhaps.
    "Star child" is a made up title from Maggin. The name thing is about as much Hebrew as I know because coincidentally, I'm also an "el" and get jokes about being related to Superman.

    The Clark Kent written by Siegel was not a man from one culture growing up in another culture, he was a man growing up in the only culture he knew. He had a Kryptonian origin, but no heritage. Superboy from More Fun Comics had the same deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Being black shouldn't be the equivalent to a color swap in Street Fighter that you pick because the default looks boring.
    The way they did it with Calvin Ellis was cool to me. If someone wants a black Superman, I'd love to see them build on Calvin Ellis. He was a black child taken in by a black family and raised to that life as he knew it. Clark Kent is white, but Calvin Ellis is black. Hernan is Mexican. Sure, you can have a very Latino looking alien baby land at the doorstep of some Dutch parents... but that's straining too hard. Writers shouldn't try so hard to step out from what they know, because it's usually pretty obvious.

    Media picks "mixed" characters when they want all of the sympathy of a darker skinned character but in a "less threatening" package.
    And they'll give a token spotlight to the beauty of a random, very dark skinned person on the flipside, but resign them to period pieces at best. But I still wouldn't hold that unfortunate implication against the casting of the "ethnically vague" type of person they often pursue.

    Side note for clarity: My hate for the obligatory race change doesn't extend to movies, some supporting characters (case by case. But it can't just be for the sake of "adding color" because f#%k that saying.), TV, alternate comic worlds (obviously), or previously not (strongly) racially defined characters (Lois' mom is an example. Thus, this allows for a slight "loophole" in her race for me personally). In regards to films specifically, I bend my rule because of an actor's ability. However, my stipulation would be that you don't play the character any differently or in a way that enforces specific preconceptions that come with whatever the changed race is (Perry White is still Perry White even if he's black). This applies to sexuality too, for me.
    You know, I'm still baffled over the outrage mustered for Elba as Heimdall or Cathey and Jordan as Franklin and Johnny Storm. They're great actors and did as well as anyone else could have. Marlon Wayans as Robin also sounds very, very hilarious. Based on actor merit I don't see the problem with these things, and even when cast intentionally... as a comic fan I don't get mad when the movie isn't the same thing. I get annoyed when it is the same thing. Predictable stinks.

  8. #38
    Spectacular Member Chris24601's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K. Jones View Post
    There's the science nerd in me, that's like; welllllll a dark-skinned Kryptonian would be better at absorbing solar energy.
    That would depend on whether the solar-conversion happens in his skin or in deeper tissue. If its deeper tissue then lighter skin would allow more sunlight to penetrate than darker skin. Then again the rule is just 'under a yellow sun' not necessarily sunlight so it could even be the sun's gravity (despite their size, red giant stars are actually much less dense than our sun) or neutrino emissions or such that provide the power up; in which case skin tone would be irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endsong View Post
    I recall there being some sort of scientific study that actually suggested that Superman and Supergirl and other Kryptonian's should be of a naturally darker bent than they are drawn as most of the time because Krypton was supposed to be closer to their sun and melanin and etc, etc, etc. I don't recall the specifics, but yeah.
    Even if it was closer, Red Giants are far less energetic than our sun so they tend to be dimmer and emit less of the harmful UV radiation that melanin evolved to help us deal with. Thus, despite being closer there's no guarantee that it would lead to darker skin.

    Heck, one argument for the super senses and X-ray/heat vision is that most Red Giants have a luminosity of less than 0.08 of our Sun. Which means, at best, their daylight is about as bright as when 10% or less of the sun is above our horizon at dawn and dusk. In such a dark environment they'd need exceptionally sharp senses or some type of active sensing (in this case low level EM emissions from their eyes that reflect off surfaces to allow them to perceive their surroundings... ramped up to ridiculous scales that can melt steel due to the Yellow Sun. In such case, Superman should be practically albino pale at least when he was born (provided they have melanin at all, Clark's youth before his powers emerged would have let him develop melanin in line with his life in Kansas... actually, if you wanna play up the differences he'd almost always be paler than his friends growing up so everything thinks he spends all day in doors playing video games or reading while his father was out in the fields doing real work).

    If we were to be really honest about Superman's ethnicity he really shouldn't look like ANY one particular ethnicity at all. Depending on the version he's either 100% alien or from a branch of humanity that split off from its terrestrial cousins at least 10,000 years ago. If I had to pick one human ethnicity I'd say a lighter complected (due to dim red sun) Semitic (in keeping with his creator's Jewish roots... and you could also line that ethnicity up with the ancient Egyptians if you wanted to tie in some Ancient Astronauts built the pyramids vibes into Krypton's past).

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogotazo View Post
    Superman as a man and idea is malleable enough that depicting him in another era as another race doesn't insult the mythology at all. Plus don't forget about:




    I'll add some more thoughts later.


    Ah Val Zod, literally could have been DC's Miles Morales if they didn't squander it. Never have I seen such a character of wasted potential as this. It's DC's treatment of character's like this that always makes me take Marvel over DC in the comic book world. Miles is in television shows, has his own upcoming movie, solo series and majoring in marvel's biggest events, and Val Zod is in Limbo. That's the difference between Marvel and DC.

  10. #40
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    They're great actors and did as well as anyone else could have.
    I think it's only fair to note that this is a line of reasoning Hollywood has used for years for whitewashing. Since I brought up the movie 21 earlier, basically Hollywood thought that the main character's Asian-American-ness wasn't important to the story. The book, however, actually makes a comment that the MIT gamblers thought that their race played to their advantage. They thought casino workers thought that they were spoiled kids of wealthy Asian businessmen that they didn't think twice that they were putting down thousands of dollars per hand of blackjack. Anyway, Hollywood thought that this detail didn't matter to the story and just put in Jim Sturgess and the worst ever Lois Lane in the leads, alongside the Luthor with the least actualized potential, and later cast a couple of Asian actors after a semi-controversy brewed. (I didn't pick on 21 for its Superman connections, but in retrospect it seemed to be a fitting example... Perry White is in the movie, too!). I see this movie as a counterexample for the flimsiness of many rationales saying a character's whiteness isn't important and anyone can be cast for a role.

    One of the reasons I never really cared for a show like Friends is that it's kind of silly that 1990's and 2000's New York City was being represented as nearly homogeneously white. Even if you don't think diversity in itself is a worthy goal to pursue, you might end up painting a picture of absurdity if you don't try to achieve it. I think it's at best laughable, and at worst infuriating, that there are so few Asian male doctors in hospital dramas. What a joke. Seriously, visit a med school one day and tell me what you see. It would be like if you made a movie about Major League Baseball and there were no Latinos in the movie. Without sensitivity to diversity, your movie or TV show will lack verisimilitude.

    Yet, I'm not entirely comfortable once you start justifying why iconic, white-looking characters should start looking otherwise. Diversity matters. And if you don't care about social impact, then at least consider the financial impact of making sure the cast list isn't monotonically white. But stunt casting (and I don't think the casting of Johnny Storm in the last movie counts as anything less than stunt casting) justified by saying the character's whiteness doesn't matter probably will not sit well with me. You'd be better off doing what the JL cartoon did and swap out the established, white GL with an established black GL.

  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    No it wasn't. DC didn't allow it.
    Which I think is odd because it's an elseworld. Landis implied this was something he wanted to do but never went so far as to actually do it (at least not directly. If you read the first issue, it's kind of obvious he found a way to slip it in there).
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Disclaimer: This isn't directed out anyone in particular. This is directed at the general idea. Wolf.B, this is in no way an "attack" on you or what you believe. I respect you opinion, and anyone who doesn't agree with me.

    I'm an African American male (Nigerian and Brazilian decent), and I particularly hate it when people say "Superman's white-male-privileged-ass needs to be another race." One of the reasons why I hate it is because the instant got-to is "hey, he's a smart idea: lets make him black." That is without a doubt the most offensive piece of garbage ever, to me. Being black shouldn't be the equivalent to a color swap in Street Fighter that you pick because the default looks boring. It's downright tokenism with the "one-gay-BFF" and "wise-old-black-person" BS. Don't paint a character my or any other flavor of the month color just to feel like you're progressive. That shit does more to make the race you've just put on blast uncomfortable. Makes me feel like the dude from Get Out. You're using the change of skin color as a piggy back. It's still racist AF if you say proclaim foolishness like "Clark would be less boring if he were black." What, being an alien demi god looks mundane next to a changed skin pigmentation?

    Clark's alienation has nothing to do with the color of his or anyone else's skin. His alienation comes from being a first generation Kryptonian American. It's freakin cultural, man! That's a MUCH wider net in today's climate than shamelessly belittling the REAL issues that people of color face all the time. You're literally taking those real issues and truing a famously white character into one of those other races so you can cash in on the emotional aspect. Do we REALLY not see what's wrong with that?! "Oh, white is out, so lets move on to a more sympathetic and cool race."

    THAT'S THE ACTUAL PLOT TO THE MOVIE GET OUT!!!!!!

    For the record, I LOVE President Superman. But the reason why that's not a shameless race switch with no substance to it is because of the context. President Obama famously proclaimed that he was from Krypton (in jest), and there was a very mythologized nature to his election. He was a real world figure that was position for loving parody with a slight bite to it. In comes President Superman. He isn't the idea of "what if Superman were black" he's the idea of "what if President Obama was secretly Superman" with all the implication (good and bad) that come with it. There's also the bonus that he's an alternate version.

    I'll so say a resounding NO to the "mixed" angle. That is the media definition of "non threatening ethnicity." You wanna have a mixed race couple in a TV show or movie? Be sure to make one of them mixed so it's not so much of a sore thumb! Media picks "mixed" characters when they want all of the sympathy of a darker skinned character but in a "less threatening" package.

    Superman is a space Jewish man, and that's okay. That's actually really, really cool. I don't have to be a Jewish guy to sympathize with, understand, like, and root for Superman. I'm not little white British boy, but I LOVE me some Potter. I'm not a white female, but Katniss is pretty cool.

    You know what hero deals with physical race inhently better than Superman? Martian Manhunter. Know what hero can be literally any race or gender he wants? Martian Manhunter. You know who'd be great in a movie? Martian Manhunter. You know who does the fresh-off-the-boat immigrant thing better than Superman? Martian Manhunter. You know who Superman doesn't need to be? Martian Manhunter.

    Side note for clarity: My hate for the obligatory race change doesn't extend to movies, some supporting characters (case by case. But it can't just be for the sake of "adding color" because f#%k that saying.), TV, alternate comic worlds (obviously), or previously not (strongly) racially defined characters (Lois' mom is an example. Thus, this allows for a slight "loophole" in her race for me personally). In regards to films specifically, I bend my rule because of an actor's ability. However, my stipulation would be that you don't play the character any differently or in a way that enforces specific preconceptions that come with whatever the changed race is (Perry White is still Perry White even if he's black). This applies to sexuality too, for me.

    Rant mode complete. Returning to your friendly neighborhood Superlad now

    This is a GOOD rant and I'm so glad you made it.

    For what it's worth, I would really like to see DC embrace Lois as a woman of color going forward. She's been portrayed as Indian, Asian (in American Alien) and she's a Cuban American immigrant in the Bombshell series. She was played by a black Woman in the last revival of the musical. I think there a desire to see her portrayed as a woman of color and I think it has a lot of value.

    I love Amy Adams (and she's certainly gotten her share of abuse since she was cast because of the cross section of sexism and ageism that plagues us culturally) but I'm really rooting for Supergirl to honor DC Bombshells by introducing Lois as a woman of color. I think it's vital that we see a woman of color valued and beloved and both able to save herself but worth saving. I think Lois has long represented a powerful message to a LOT of women I know about valuing a woman with a strong mind who is career oriented but NOT cutting her off from love and I would like to see an actress of color get that chance now.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    This is a GOOD rant and I'm so glad you made it.

    For what it's worth, I would really like to see DC embrace Lois as a woman of color going forward. She's been portrayed as Indian, Asian (in American Alien) and she's a Cuban American immigrant in the Bombshell series. She was played by a black Woman in the last revival of the musical. I think there a desire to see her portrayed as a woman of color and I think it has a lot of value.

    I love Amy Adams (and she's certainly gotten her share of abuse since she was cast because of the cross section of sexism and ageism that plagues us culturally) but I'm really rooting for Supergirl to honor DC Bombshells by introducing Lois as a woman of color. I think it's vital that we see a woman of color valued and beloved and both able to save herself but worth saving. I think Lois has long represented a powerful message to a LOT of women I know about valuing a woman with a strong mind who is career oriented but NOT cutting her off from love and I would like to see an actress of color get that chance now.
    There's certainly something to be said for an ethnically ambiguous Superman. But there's something to be said for something more standard white (protagonists are much more sensitive to their race/ethnicity impacting the stories that are told). And having supporting characters have plausibly non-WASP backgrounds is OK for me, too (I was thinking Dick Grayson having Native American parents would have been interesting, but, of course, his having Romany heritage is kinda natural).

    I think elseworlds and TV/movies (same thing, actually) are absolutely free to reinterpret a character's race to see if it brings out another aspect---I don't get the complaint about race/sexuality/gender changes here. The whole point of alternative universes is to be free to explore such changes. If it's done well, it's something added to the toy box....and having new in the toy box is always welcome.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    "Star child" is a made up title from Maggin. The name thing is about as much Hebrew as I know because coincidentally, I'm also an "el" and get jokes about being related to Superman.

    The Clark Kent written by Siegel was not a man from one culture growing up in another culture, he was a man growing up in the only culture he knew. He had a Kryptonian origin, but no heritage. Superboy from More Fun Comics had the same deal.


    The way they did it with Calvin Ellis was cool to me. If someone wants a black Superman, I'd love to see them build on Calvin Ellis. He was a black child taken in by a black family and raised to that life as he knew it. Clark Kent is white, but Calvin Ellis is black. Hernan is Mexican. Sure, you can have a very Latino looking alien baby land at the doorstep of some Dutch parents... but that's straining too hard. Writers shouldn't try so hard to step out from what they know, because it's usually pretty obvious.



    And they'll give a token spotlight to the beauty of a random, very dark skinned person on the flipside, but resign them to period pieces at best. But I still wouldn't hold that unfortunate implication against the casting of the "ethnically vague" type of person they often pursue.



    You know, I'm still baffled over the outrage mustered for Elba as Heimdall or Cathey and Jordan as Franklin and Johnny Storm. They're great actors and did as well as anyone else could have. Marlon Wayans as Robin also sounds very, very hilarious. Based on actor merit I don't see the problem with these things, and even when cast intentionally... as a comic fan I don't get mad when the movie isn't the same thing. I get annoyed when it is the same thing. Predictable stinks.
    Fair play, I actually forgot that was a comics/books based thing and that Kal-El real world is "Voice of God". Anyway, Superman being Space-Jewish to me is as important as you know, Spock being Space-Jewish. Which is to say, kind of pulpy and not the best allegory in canon but in creator intent, massively important. Anyway, I just found this fun article which I though this would be a cool place to share:

    http://forward.com/culture/178454/10...really-jewish/
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Disclaimer: This isn't directed out anyone in particular. This is directed at the general idea. Wolf.B, this is in no way an "attack" on you or what you believe. I respect you opinion, and anyone who doesn't agree with me.

    I'm an African American male (Nigerian and Brazilian decent), and I particularly hate it when people say "Superman's white-male-privileged-ass needs to be another race." One of the reasons why I hate it is because the instant got-to is "hey, here's a smart idea: lets make him black." That is without a doubt the most offensive piece of garbage ever, to me. Being black shouldn't be the equivalent to a color swap in Street Fighter that you pick because the default looks boring. It's downright tokenism along with the "one-gay-BFF" and "wise-old-black-person" BS. Don't paint a character my or any other flavor of the month color just to feel like you're progressive. That shit does more to make the race you've just put on blast uncomfortable. Makes me feel like the dude from Get Out. You're using the change of skin color as a piggyback. It's still racist AF if you proclaim foolishness like "Clark would be less boring if he were black." What, being an alien demi god looks mundane next to a changed skin pigmentation?

    Clark's alienation has nothing to do with the color of his or anyone else's skin. His alienation comes from being a first generation Kryptonian American. It's freakin cultural, man! That's a MUCH wider net in today's climate than shamelessly belittling the REAL issues that people of color face all the time. You're literally taking those real issues and truing a famously white character into one of those other races so you can cash in on the emotional aspect. Do we REALLY not see what's wrong with that?! "Oh, white is out, so lets move on to a more sympathetic and cool race."

    THAT'S THE ACTUAL PLOT TO THE MOVIE GET OUT!!!!!!

    For the record, I LOVE President Superman. But the reason why that's not a shameless race switch with no substance to it is because of the context. President Obama famously proclaimed that he was from Krypton (in jest), and there was a very mythologized nature to his election (for a number of reasons). He was a real world figure that was positioned for loving parody with a slight bite to it. In comes President Superman. He isn't the idea of "what if Superman were black" he's the idea of "what if President Obama was secretly Superman" with all the implication (good and bad) that come with it. There's also the bonus that he's an alternate version.

    I'll also say a resounding NO to the "mixed" angle. That is the media definition of "non threatening ethnicity." You wanna have a mixed race couple in a TV show or movie? Be sure to make one of them mixed so it's not so much of a sore thumb! Media picks "mixed" characters when they want all of the sympathy of a darker skinned character but in a "less threatening" package.

    Superman is a space Jewish man, and that's okay. That's actually really, really cool. I don't have to be a Jewish guy to sympathize with, understand, like, and root for Superman. I'm not little white British boy, but I LOVE me some Potter. I'm not a white female, but Katniss is pretty cool.

    You know what hero deals with physical race inherently better than Superman? Martian Manhunter. Know what hero can be literally any race or gender he wants? Martian Manhunter. You know who'd be great in a movie? Martian Manhunter. You know who does the fresh-off-the-boat immigrant thing better than Superman? Martian Manhunter. You know who Superman doesn't need to be? Martian Manhunter.

    Side note for clarity: My hate for the obligatory race change doesn't extend to movies, some supporting characters (case by case. But it can't just be for the sake of "adding color" because f#%k that saying.), TV, alternate comic worlds (obviously), or previously not (strongly) racially defined characters (Lois' mom is an example. Thus, this allows for a slight "loophole" in her race for me personally). In regards to films specifically, I bend my rule because of an actor's ability. However, my stipulation would be that you don't play the character any differently or in a way that enforces specific preconceptions that come with whatever the changed race is (Perry White is still Perry White even if he's black). This applies to sexuality too, for me.

    Rant mode complete. Returning to your friendly neighborhood Superlad now
    This is very similar to the Denys Cowan argument against frivolous token race-lifting for superficial diversification instead of good creators crafting good minority characters in good stories that have lasting power instead of riding on the legacies of 'iconic' characters that O.G. fans will never let go of, and I agree pretty wholeheartedly. I mean there's always exceptions. There's cool, diverse new sidekicks rolling in the shadow of their mentors. There's the occasional legacy that proves superior or more popular than the original (or at least equally popular) like a Miles Morales. There's related, but quite different legacies, like Steel relates to Superman by being his own, different kind of Superman. And there's the occasional switch in artistic style that makes logical sense and simultaneously diversifies, like darkening up Helena Bertinelli to look Mediterranean, or darkening Damian Wayne's tan so he looks Middle-Eastern (or even how they somehow miraculously (yet rather shamelessly) turned around the Wally West situation). But these novel occasions are not a game-plan for how to reverse-engineer original characters into something hip for "today's crowd", that thing that smacks of the corporate heads wanting to jump on a bandwagon for money's sake and bad editors allowing it.

    We need good, new characters of color. Or perhaps even more importantly ... we need really good writers and artists to tackle good characters of color that already exist! I'd kill for a Steel book right now - especially with his new status quo with Lana, or a Black Lightning book. I'm thrilled about more focus on Bumblebee and Vixen and Ryan Choi in their team titles. I wish Green Lanterns was better. I wish Cyborg's solo was better ... and that Justice League was better, because that's the other title where you can find him.
    Retro315 no more. Anonymity is so 2005.
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