I think it's really amazing that 'Batgirl' is now a priority for the DCEU.

[Punisher007]

In my experiences, most non comic reading people know more of "Batgirl" or "Robin" as a concept identity. The actual characters behind the masks, not so much. Like you can say "Robin" and they'll know who you're talking about. But say "Dick Grayson" or "Tim Drake" or whatever and you get confused looks.

[Badou]

Robin is not integral part of DC movies not because Batman and Robin was terrible, but because Robin suppose to be a child/teen. He is hard to adapt properly character (all versions of him). And honestly, I believe Nolan didn't want Robin in his universe, because with Robin half of problems that Nolanverse villains created for "I'm working alone" Batman could've been solved easily.
Nightwing's appearance in DCEU hardly would be affected by DC/WB's view on Robin.

And I disagree. I think the stigma of the Batman and Robin movies still casts a cloud over the Robin identity and DC is scared to do Robin again properly in live action because of it. It is why they felt so comfortable skipping all the Robin stuff in the DCEU right now. Dick's origin, Dick leaving, Jason's origin, and Jason's death have all been rushed over rather than get proper movies because they are nervous to do Robin again. These are the thing that should have gotten proper movies in this universe given their impact. Plus Batman has been doing so well without Robin in movie sales that I think they are scared to disrupt it too.

In my experiences, most non comic reading people know more of "Batgirl" or "Robin" as a concept identity. The actual characters behind the masks, not so much. Like you can say "Robin" and they'll know who you're talking about. But say "Dick Grayson" or "Tim Drake" or whatever and you get confused looks.

I think most know Dick Grayson as Robin. That was one of the reasons Johns voted against killing Dick in IC because he felt that even people's grandmother's know Dick Grayson. Of course I don't think he is widely known to the level of a Bruce or Clark, but I don't think he is that far behind a Diana in terms of people knowing real names.

[nightbird]

And I disagree. I think the stigma of the Batman and Robin movies still casts a cloud over the Robin identity and DC is scared to do Robin again properly in live action because of it. It is why they felt so comfortable skipping all the Robin stuff in the DCEU right now. Dick's origin, Dick leaving, Jason's origin, and Jason's death have all been rushed over rather than get proper movies because they are nervous to do Robin again. These are the thing that should have gotten proper movies in this universe given their impact. Plus Batman has been doing so well without Robin in movie sales that I think they are scared to disrupt it too.

They skipped over Robins, because they wanted older Batman. They wanted Batman with already formed rogue gallery and history, they wanted him to be alone and angry in BvS, they wanted him to be traumatized by Robin's death, they wanted to make Joker and Harley killers without showing them killing a teenager on screen (not with PG-13 raiting). To have Nightwing and Red Hood around makes much more sense in context how they started their DCEU Batverse. We will get some Robin flashbacks in solo movies or closer to UTRH adaptation.

I only see Robin happening in flashbacks. The only viable Robin I see in the future is Carrie Kelley because Afleck is a major fan of DKR and has mentioned Carrie a couple of time and I'm pretty sure Afleck is def gonna have the final say on who the potential future Robin might be. But yeah I don't see a Robin any time soon in present day.

Carrie? I don't see it happening. They would face such a strong backlash from boys fans (+maybe Steph fans too), if they ever decide to make her Robin in DCEU.

[SiegePerilous02]

Lol at the people who want this movie to fail because Babs is Batgirl over their favorite. My these grapes are sour. The others never had a snowball's chance in Hell of being in the movie. She's by far the most prolific. And you think WB or Whedon would pass up the chance to heavily feature Simmons as Gordon in another movie? He'd have no reason to even be in a movie starring Cass or Steph.

In my experiences, most non comic reading people know more of "Batgirl" or "Robin" as a concept identity. The actual characters behind the masks, not so much. Like you can say "Robin" and they'll know who you're talking about. But say "Dick Grayson" or "Tim Drake" or whatever and you get confused looks.

While this is true, I think that if a civilian name is linked to either identity, the average joe on the street is far more likely to think of Dick and Barbara over any of their inheritors.

Carrie? I don't see it happening. They would face such a strong backlash from boys fans (+maybe Steph fans too), if they ever decide to make her Robin in DCEU.

I think the backlash would be hysterical and I kind of want to see it just for that reason.

While Miller's blatant favoritism of Carrie is obnoxious, I think she has every right to be chosen as any of the boys do. Dick is the only one who can claim to overshadow her IMO. The big story she was featured in had more of an impact of the comic book industry than any comic featuring the other Robins.

[Assam]

Lol at the people who want this movie to fail because Babs is Batgirl over their favorite. My these grapes are sour. The others never had a snowball's chance in Hell of being in the movie. She's by far the most prolific.

These grapes may be sour, but the only reason they never had a "snowball's chance in Hell" is because of DC's absolute refusal to acknowledge the others in outside media so that everyone will pray at the First Church of Barabra. Jason's no where near as well known as Dick, but people still seem pretty sure Red Hood is gonna show up at some point, and that's because of the mass popularity he received thanks to an animated film. If Cass and Steph had ever been included in an animated film or series, they would have been in the exact same position.

Though frankly, if they'd ever even gotten to be an animated film or movie, I know at least some of us, myself included, who are irritated by this movie wouldn't be so annoyed. (Unless the film takes place after the events of The Killing Joke. Then I'll be as pissed as I still am with the comics.)

[atomicbattery]

These grapes may be sour, but the only reason they never had a "snowball's chance in Hell" is because of DC's absolute refusal to acknowledge the others in outside media so that everyone will pray at the First Church of Barabra.

This is factually, historically untrue.
The first three seismic events in outside media for Batman were the 1966 tv series, the 1989 movie, and the 1992 animated series. The producers of Batman:The Animated Series were given support, but no direction by the DC offices in New York. Batman was in the height of 'grim and gritty' storytelling in the early '90's, and the concept of Batgirl was, at the time, considered an embarrassing relic of the 'camp' era.
The introduction of Barbara as an ambulatory character, and ultimately Batgirl, in the animated series was entirely the impetus of the B:TAS production staff. Thus, Barbara became Batgirl to a second, enormous television generation of Batman fans- far greater than the size of comic readership. The animated series guys, by resurrecting Babsgirl, are really the ones responsible for Barbara becoming the 'iconic' version of the character. In fact, you can blame- or, I'd guess, thank- those guys for the invention of Cass. Batgirl became so popular on the animated series that DC editorial deciding to re-introduce the Batgirl concept in comics is largely attributable to Barbara's popularity on the show.
I have a magazine interview with Paul Dini somewhere from the early '90's (could be from Comics Scene, or Hero, or Wild Cartoon Kingdom, or Animation Magazine- you had to buy a lot of magazines back then, with no Internet, to find information on your favorite cartoon) where the interviewer asks Dini 'Why Batgirl?'. And Dini answered 'Because we love Batgirl'. It was very gratifying to read that answer in that era.
I think that what a great writer like Paul Dini, and now Joss Whedon, probably find appealing about Barbara as Batgirl is the inherent dramatic possibilities of her relationship to Batman (mentor) and Commissioner Gordon (father). There is no character in the Batverse, or in all of comics, quite like her. Dini exploited these powerful emotional connections in the great 'Over the Edge' episode of the animated series. I suspect Whedon is excited by all of the enormous storytelling possibilities of the character as well.

[darkseidpwns]

This is factually, historically untrue.
The first three seismic events in outside media for Batman were the 1966 tv series, the 1989 movie, and the 1992 animated series. The producers of Batman:The Animated Series were given support, but no direction by the DC offices in New York. Batman was in the height of 'grim and gritty' storytelling in the early '90's, and the concept of Batgirl was, at the time, considered an embarrassing relic of the 'camp' era.
The introduction of Barbara as an ambulatory character, and ultimately Batgirl, in the animated series was entirely the impetus of the B:TAS production staff. Thus, Barbara became Batgirl to a second, enormous television generation of Batman fans- far greater than the size of comic readership. The animated series guys, by resurrecting Babsgirl, are really the ones responsible for Barbara becoming the 'iconic' version of the character. In fact, you can blame- or, I'd guess, thank- those guys for the invention of Cass. Batgirl became so popular on the animated series that DC editorial deciding to re-introduce the Batgirl concept in comics is largely attributable to Barbara's popularity on the show.
I have a magazine interview with Paul Dini somewhere from the early '90's (could be from Comics Scene, or Hero, or Wild Cartoon Kingdom, or Animation Magazine- you had to buy a lot of magazines back then, with no Internet, to find information on your favorite cartoon) where the interviewer asks Dini 'Why Batgirl?'. And Dini answered 'Because we love Batgirl'. It was very gratifying to read that answer in that era.
I think that what a great writer like Paul Dini, and now Joss Whedon, probably find appealing about Barbara as Batgirl is the inherent dramatic possibilities of her relationship to Batman (mentor) and Commissioner Gordon (father). There is no character in the Batverse, or in all of comics, quite like her. Dini exploited these powerful emotional connections in the great 'Over the Edge' episode of the animated series. I suspect Whedon is excited by all of the enormous storytelling possibilities of the character as well.

Nuh uh, Dan Didio forced Babs girl in to Batman 60's, BTAS/DCAU, the Batman, Beware the Batman, YJ etc, its all DC editorial, they're now making a movie with her (sarcasm). I've made these points as well in the past. There is literally nothing to suggest that Cass and Steph would have any support among the people in charge of films and animation and games. This whole argument of "they need to be given a chance" rings so hollow especially when you consider the fact that Steph got her ongoing under Didio, Cass got her second book under Didio, her first book was half way through when Didio came in.
Even if they start publishing an ongoing book with them as Batgirl the movie will still be about Babs. I dont think Cass has ANY support from the different departments in WB and Steph just has BQM.

With that said maybe one day Steph might get her due, her Batgirl run might create a cult following and could influence higher ups possibly but I dont think even that is applicable to Cass.

[Assam]

The first three seismic events in outside media for Batman were the 1966 tv series, the 1989 movie, and the 1992 animated series. The producers of Batman:The Animated Series were given support, but no direction by the DC offices in New York. Batman was in the height of 'grim and gritty' storytelling in the early '90's, and the concept of Batgirl was, at the time, considered an embarrassing relic of the 'camp' era.
The introduction of Barbara as an ambulatory character, and ultimately Batgirl, in the animated series was entirely the impetus of the B:TAS production staff. Thus, Barbara became Batgirl to a second, enormous television generation of Batman fans- far greater than the size of comic readership. The animated series guys, by resurrecting Babsgirl, are really the ones responsible for Barbara becoming the 'iconic' version of the character. In fact, you can blame- or thank- those guys for the invention of Cass. Batgirl became so popular on the animated series that DC editorial deciding to re-introduce the Batgirl concept in comics is largely attributable to Barbara's popularity on the show.
I have a magazine interview with Paul Dini somewhere from the early '90's (could be from Comics Scene, or Hero, or Wild Cartoon Kingdom, or Animation Magazine- you had to buy a lot of magazines back then, with no Internet, to find information on your favorite cartoon) where the interviewer asks Dini 'Why Batgirl?'. And Dini answered 'Because we love Batgirl'. It was very gratifying to read that answer in that era.
I think that what a great writer like Paul Dini, and now Joss Whedon, probably find appealing about Barbara as Batgirl is the inherent dramatic possibilities of her relationship to Batman (mentor) and Commissioner Gordon (father). Dini exploited these powerful emotional connections in the great 'Over the Edge' episode of the animated series. I suspect Whedon is excited by all of the enormous storytelling possibilities of the character as well.

This is all true, and I can't deny any of it. Babs and Dick will always be on another level of popularity than their successors. However, it doesn't take away at all from what I said. Jason has managed to amass a massive amount of popularity through a single animated film, leading to multiple video game appearances. Likewise, Damian and Tim have gotten fairly popular thanks to their animated appearances. The Batman, Brave and the Bold, Beware the Batman, Young Justice, the straight to DVD movies; the other girls could have appeared in any of these, and become at least as popular as the non-Dick Robins, but this didn't happen because the higher-ups are obsessed with Babs. Even on the show where Babs was already Oracle, neither of the others got to appear.

Like I said, unless the movie ends up taking place post-Killing Joke, I wouldn't be mad at all about Babs being the star, if the others had ever gotten to appear in anything.

There is no character in the Batverse, or in all of comics, quite like her.

This is true for Oracle. It's also true for Cass. Completely disagree about this applying to Babsgirl. I've only few seen a few episodes of BTAS so I don't know what Babs was like there or if they managed to make her interesting, but my take on Pre-Killing Joke Babs has always been that she was a strong, intelligent,and empowering character, who was still bland as Hell.

[Punisher007]

I will say that it is annoying that DC seems loathe to acknowledge Cass or Steph in their other media. The most that we've gotten so far is a brief cameo from Steph (in her civilian persona) in one episode of Young Justice. That's it.

Heck I don't even care about them being Batgirl. They can be Orphan/Black Bat and Spoiler for all I care. Just let them show up in other stuff outside the comics, not that hard.

[Assam]

This should be fun to break down:

Nuh uh, Dan Didio forced Babs girl in to Batman 60's, BTAS/DCAU, the Batman, Beware the Batman, YJ etc, its all DC editorial, they're now making a movie with her (sarcasm).

Very mature.

There is literally nothing to suggest that Cass and Steph would have any support among the people in charge of films and animation and games. This whole argument of "they need to be given a chance" rings so hollow especially when you consider the fact that Steph got her ongoing under Didio, Cass got her second book under Didio, her first book was half way through when Didio came in.

Nothing except for the fact that their fanbases among comic readers are huge, and they're both incredibly likeable, interesting, and unique characters. Yes, Steph got her ongoing under DiDio...AFTER they chickened out on bringing back Babs at Batgirl. Yes, Cass got her 2nd book under DiDio...AND he handed it to the guy who screwed up her character in the first place. Yes, DiDio came in half way through her series...WHICH he ended up cancelling for the most ridiculous of reasons, and was at least in part at fault for EvilCass, going on to effectively mock Cass fans for years. And that's not even getting into Cass and Steph being erased from existence while all the Robins got to stay.

Even if they start publishing an ongoing book with them as Batgirl the movie will still be about Babs. I dont think Cass has ANY support from the different departments in WB and Steph just has BQM.

Yeah, your mostly right here. But only because of things I've already gone over, which your response to was mockery.

With that said maybe one day Steph might get her due, her Batgirl run might create a cult following and could influence higher ups possibly but I dont think even that is applicable to Cass.

Displayed: A 100% biased statement.

Seriously, I know you don't like Cass, but you have to be aware that both of their books have massive cult followings.

[Assam]

Heck I don't even care about them being Batgirl. They can be Orphan/Black Bat and Spoiler for all I care. Just let them show up in other stuff outside the comics, not that hard.

Agreed.

10char

[Agent Z]

Lol at the people who want this movie to fail because Babs is Batgirl over their favorite. My these grapes are sour. The others never had a snowball's chance in Hell of being in the movie. She's by far the most prolific. And you think WB or Whedon would pass up the chance to heavily feature Simmons as Gordon in another movie? He'd have no reason to even be in a movie starring Cass or Steph.



While this is true, I think that if a civilian name is linked to either identity, the average joe on the street is far more likely to think of Dick and Barbara over any of their inheritors.



I think the backlash would be hysterical and I kind of want to see it just for that reason.

While Miller's blatant favoritism of Carrie is obnoxious, I think she has every right to be chosen as any of the boys do. Dick is the only one who can claim to overshadow her IMO. The big story she was featured in had more of an impact of the comic book industry than any comic featuring the other Robins.

You think these are sour grapes you weren't around for the bashing Cass got while she was Batgirl. And unlike with Babs, Cass being Batgirl didn't stop Babs from appearing in comics or related media.

[darkseidpwns]

This should be fun to break down:



Very mature.



Nothing except for the fact that their fanbases among comic readers are huge, and they're both incredibly likeable, interesting, and unique characters. Yes, Steph got her ongoing under DiDio...AFTER they chickened out on bringing back Babs at Batgirl. Yes, Cass got her 2nd book under DiDio...AND he handed it to the guy who screwed up her character in the first place. Yes, DiDio came in half way through her series...WHICH he ended up cancelling for the most ridiculous of reasons, and was at least in part at fault for EvilCass, going on to effectively mock Cass fans for years. And that's not even getting into Cass and Steph being erased from existence while all the Robins got to stay.



Yeah, your mostly right here. But only because of things I've already gone over, which your response to was mockery.



Displayed: A 100% biased statement.

Seriously, I know you don't like Cass, but you have to be aware that both of their books have massive cult followings.

Yeah and wanting to see Babs film fail for NO reason is the height of maturity.

Just you speculating, I go with the facts.

You do realize that there is a difference between bias and "we dont give a crap" right? Cass and Steph are extension characters but they do nothing for Batman's story or his mythos. There lies the problem, its not about being good or interesting, why do you think Tim gets neglected so much? this is Batman's house.

Nah, Steph's book can potentially influence a higher up, I dont see Cassandra's run doing much influencing.

[Assam]

Yeah and wanting to see Babs film fail for NO reason is the height of maturity.

I mean, I did give a reason early on in the thread. Is it emotion based, rather than logic based? Yes. But it's still a reason.

Nah, Steph's book can potentially influence a higher up, I dont see Cassandra's run doing much influencing.

Just you speculating, I go with the facts.

I do so love it when people contradict themselves.

[darkseidpwns]

I mean, I did give a reason early on in the thread. Is it emotion based, rather than logic based? Yes. But it's still a reason.





I do so love it when people contradict themselves.

Yeah and that's not a petty reason at all.

Yeah well, an average person kind of has to speculate about the future, you guys are speculating about the past.