I think it's really amazing that 'Batgirl' is now a priority for the DCEU.

[WonderNight]

Agreed.

10char

the thing about steph and cass showing up in outside stuff is that there are only so many characters creaters what to oue at one time and spoiler and orphan are at the back of the line.

[atomicbattery]

I will say that it is annoying that DC seems loathe to acknowledge Cass or Steph in their other media. The most that we've gotten so far is a brief cameo from Steph (in her civilian persona) in one episode of Young Justice. That's it.

Heck I don't even care about them being Batgirl. They can be Orphan/Black Bat and Spoiler for all I care. Just let them show up in other stuff outside the comics, not that hard.

My favorite character in all of comics is Barbara Gordon as Batgirl (I was devastated, as a kid, by The Killing Joke).
But I supported and enjoyed both the Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown runs as the character (guess I just love the concept).
So I empathize with Cass and Steph fans for having the same kind of anger, bitterness, and even a little grief like I had thirty years ago.
I advocated online for Cass and Steph skins for the Arkham Knight Batgirl dlc a couple years ago (not a big deal that would have brought their fanbases tons of joy), and of course that didn't happen.
My hope is that a Batgirl movie is a big hit, spawning sequels. And that a possible Bat cinematic universe is large and successful enough that it could contain a cast of characters as big as Harry Potter's. And that a few years down the road Cass and Steph fans will be able to be as excited as I was a couple of months ago when a Barbara Gordon Batgirl movie was announced.

[Confuzzled]

This is all true, and I can't deny any of it. Babs and Dick will always be on another level of popularity than their successors. However, it doesn't take away at all from what I said. Jason has managed to amass a massive amount of popularity through a single animated film, leading to multiple video game appearances. Likewise, Damian and Tim have gotten fairly popular thanks to their animated appearances.

I don't think it is a fair comparison. Robin as an identity is directly tied to Batman, the central pillar of the franchise. So it is easier to show the different Robins with the focus still being on Batman and his story. However, Barbara's successors have (when they inherited the Batgirl mantle) been mostly tied to her over Bruce Wayne. And Babs herself has been depicted as a sidekick to Batman in other media, so when you show her mantle being inherited, she should be more central to Cass and Steph's plot. Bruce is, at the most, tertiary, making the whole thing too complex to depict in features which focus on him.

This film is the first to break the pattern and show Babs as her own character central to her own journey. If anything, Cass and Steph fans should root for this movie to succeed because if it does, then there may be a chance for her successors to appear in her sequel, either inheriting her title or as Black Bat/Orphan and Spoiler. If it fails, kiss away the chances of them appearing prominently in a lot of other media, much less in the DCEU.

[Assam]

If anything, Cass and Steph fans should root for this movie to succeed because if it does, then there may be a chance for her successors to appear in her sequel, either inheriting her title or as Black Bat/Orphan and Spoiler. If it fails, kiss away the chances of them appearing prominently in a lot of other media, much less in the DCEU.

I personally don't see it that way. If the movie is a success, Babs is just going to be pushed even more in potential sequels and appearances in other films, and in the comics, any chance of Cass and Steph ever getting their times as Batgirl restored would go away.

Look, I hope I'm wrong, because odds are, the film is going to be a smash hit, and seeing the others in sequels could be great. Maybe I'll end up eating my words, but I just don't see that attitude as realistic.

[Agent Z]

Yeah and wanting to see Babs film fail for NO reason is the height of maturity.

Just you speculating, I go with the facts.

You do realize that there is a difference between bias and "we dont give a crap" right? Cass and Steph are extension characters but they do nothing for Batman's story or his mythos. There lies the problem, its not about being good or interesting, why do you think Tim gets neglected so much? this is Batman's house.

Nah, Steph's book can potentially influence a higher up, I dont see Cassandra's run doing much influencing.

Cass's run lasted 75 issues, was critically acclaimed, outsold the main Batman book at the time and is the most successful book starring a female of colour from DC. There are characters that have gotten movies or tv shows out of less.

[darkseidpwns]

Cass's run lasted 75 issues, was critically acclaimed, outsold the main Batman book at the time and is the most successful book starring a female of colour from DC. There are characters that have gotten movies or tv shows out of less.

That's good and all but you miss the fundamental point, this means squat to Batman.

[Confuzzled]

I personally don't see it that way. If the movie is a success, Babs is just going to be pushed even more in potential sequels and appearances in other films, and in the comics, any chance of Cass and Steph ever getting their times as Batgirl restored would go away.

Look, I hope I'm wrong, because odds are, the film is going to be a smash hit, and seeing the others in sequels could be great. Maybe I'll end up eating my words, but I just don't see that attitude as realistic.

If you want glass half empty, go for it fully. If the movie fails, it's most likely the entire "Batgirl" brand is going to be adversely affected, not just Barbara. She will be relegated to sidekick status again, meaning, she will take away the spot from Cass and Steph. So ultimately they suffer even more if she suffers as a solo star.

[Agent Z]

That's good and all but you miss the fundamental point, this means squat to Batman.

1) So does Steph's run

2) Supergirl's tv show means squat to Superman as well. What does it matter?

[darkseidpwns]

1) So does Steph's run

2) Supergirl's tv show means squat to Superman as well. What does it matter?

Steph run could be considered the next step in evolution to her character after War Games, there is always a chance however small of them using those.

Kara is linked to Superman, Cass might as well exist in her own universe and she doesn't fit the basic idea of what they want for Batgirl. Steph's only misfortune was that she became Batgirl too late, had she taken up the mantle in the early 90's she'd be a legit threat to Babs. Cass is like Matrix/Linda Danvers/Earth Angel or whatever that character was.

[Confuzzled]

Steph's only misfortune was that she became Batgirl too late, had she taken up the mantle in the early 90's she'd be a legit threat to Babs.

Hmm, I don't think so. Babs will always have the edge because she is Gordon's daughter. As long as Jimmy Boy continues to be crucial to the Bat mythos, Babs will always have a major advantage.

Steph and Cass are on equal footing. But if Babs is successful on her own and manages to establish Batgirl as a lucrative standalone franchise, both of them have the potential to be utilised. It's so odd, Steph and Cass fans are shooting at their own feet if they are rooting against this movie. This is the best shot they have at getting their faves in the spotlight since... ever.

[Agent Z]

Steph run could be considered the next step in evolution to her character after War Games, there is always a chance however small of them using those.

Kara is linked to Superman, Cass might as well exist in her own universe and she doesn't fit the basic idea of what they want for Batgirl. Steph's only misfortune was that she became Batgirl too late, had she taken up the mantle in the early 90's she'd be a legit threat to Babs. Cass is like Matrix/Linda Danvers/Earth Angel or whatever that character was.

Given how toxic War Games was I'll be amazed if anyone touches it with a ten foot pole.

Cass is the daughter of two characters that have been primarily associated with Batman. She was mentored by the former Batgirl and wears the Bat symbol. Terry friggin McGinnis got a tv show based on less. He wasn't even from the comics.

[Godlike13]

LoL, its the same thing every Batgirl thread around here.

[darkseidpwns]

Given how toxic War Games was I'll be amazed if anyone touches it with a ten foot pole.

Cass is the daughter of two characters that have been primarily associated with Batman. She was mentored by the former Batgirl and wears the Bat symbol. Terry friggin McGinnis got a tv show based on less. He wasn't even from the comics.

No more toxic than TKJ was for Babs or DITF was for Jason.
No, she's the daughter of a nobody and a Richard Dragon character who fights the Bat family. Terry was Dini/Timm creation coming after the success of their animated verse.

[darkseidpwns]

Hmm, I don't think so. Babs will always have the edge because she is Gordon's daughter. As long as Jimmy Boy continues to be crucial to the Bat mythos, Babs will always have a major advantage.

Steph and Cass are on equal footing. But if Babs is successful on her own and manages to establish Batgirl as a lucrative standalone franchise, both of them have the potential to be utilised. It's so odd, Steph and Cass fans are shooting at their own feet if they are rooting against this movie. This is the best shot they have at getting their faves in the spotlight since... ever.

Steph fits DC's idea of Batgirl far more than Cass does and while Gordon definitely gives an edge to Babs, especially in the last decade or so I would say he wasn't that much a trump card back in the 90's and early 2000's.

[Confuzzled]

Steph fits DC's idea of Batgirl far more than Cass does and while Gordon definitely gives an edge to Babs, especially in the last decade or so I would say he wasn't that much a trump card back in the 90's and early 2000's.

Perhaps but Nolan gave him a massive boost and now he's almost as crucial as Alfred, if not more so. That would have catapulted Babs back into the lead. I'm sure Babsgirl would have appeared on The Batman even if Steph had been Batgirl then. Also, Gail Simone always wanted to install Barbara back into her "rightful spot". Simone was to Babs what Johns was to Hal.