Who falls to a competent assassin?

[JackDaw]

A rare posting for me over on the Marvel thread about the Punisher, got me wondering how many of DC's super heroes would fall to a top quality non powered assassin...say somebody who would be employed by likes of Lex Luthor to take out a troublesome foe. Professional, big fee, access to good quality weaponry, but no access to really, really outlandish technology. (Lex willing to pay a big fee, but not willing to supply weapons in case attack traced back to him.)

I take it as an article of faith that such an assassin could take out any member of the Bat family...up to and including Batman himself. If that can't be done...then let's stop pretence that such characters really are "normal" humans. Obviously same would go for likes of Green Arrow.

At other extreme...I ddon't think a non powered assassin, without outlandish technology, could take out one of the power houses.

Yes, right at top of the tree Superman has weaknesses...but he also has extra-ordinary senses to forewarn him...and most of the weaknesses such as kryptonite are usually shown as not readily available. Any GL...with way ring is usually written (as sensing danger automatically and throwing up force field)...ought to be proof against such an assassin. Flash? Not sure...if you took him by surprise...when out of speed trance...perhaps he'd fall. Could go on...but personal gut feeling is that the true power houses can't be taken down in this hypothetical scenario.

But the mid tier guys? The likes of Hawkman and Atom? I think a really skilled assassin would take them.

[murderousjohnny]

I saw video talking about the current wonder woman. Apparently she isn"t bullet proof and took a round from sniper straight threw her stomach area I think. So I guess she could be taken out. I thinks it weird for her to be that vulnerable but I guess they decided to nerf her.

[JackDaw]

I saw video talking about the current wonder woman. Apparently she isn"t bullet proof and took a round from sniper straight threw her stomach area I think. So I guess she could be taken out. I thinks it weird for her to be that vulnerable but I guess they decided to nerf her.

With the long term characters, especially one shown in all sorts of media, you see all sorts of inconsistent feats/ power levels over the years. In the wonderful Bob Haney Brave and the Bold issues, for example, I've seen the Flash in one issue unable to chase down a motorbike (he had a bad cold!!), while in other issues he ran to sun and back.

And...of course.. Wonder Woman has been shown at all sorts of different power levels over the years. But the way she's typically written in current comics I think she's immune to my hypothetical assassin...maybe more so than Superman. (I lose track with how Superman's weakness to red light is being written. But if it's currently something that de-powers him just about instantly, assassin could flood area with red light then shoot him.)

[Caivu]

I take it as an article of faith that such an assassin could take out any member of the Bat family...up to and including Batman himself. If that can't be done...then let's stop pretence that such characters really are "normal" humans. Obviously same would go for likes of Green Arrow.

If this means the assassin tracks them down in their civilian personas and kills them then, sure. Otherwise... eh. Far less likely. I don't think anyone would claim that the characters you mention are "normal" except in the sense of being unpowered. They're all peak humans by the standards of the DCU.

[JackDaw]

If this means the assassin tracks them down in their civilian personas and kills them then, sure. Otherwise... eh. Far less likely. I don't think anyone would claim that the characters you mention are "normal" except in the sense of being unpowered. They're all peak humans by the standards of the DCU.

So a competent assassin armed with something like a high powered rifle with telescopic sights can't take out somebody like Nightwing or Huntress because they are wearing a close fitting uniform??

LOL.

[dan12456]

So a competent assassin armed with something like a high powered rifle with telescopic sights can't take out somebody like Nightwing or Huntress because they are wearing a close fitting uniform??

LOL.

These characters have survived the most powerful assassins in the DCU. No way a merely "competent" assassin would take them out. Every bat family member have feats of surviving way more skilled foes. Street levellers are all way above the level of a normal peak human.

Nightwing frequently goes up against Deathstroke, the most skilled assassin probably in the DCU who is enhanced beyond peak human. And sometimes he beats him.

[Caivu]

So a competent assassin armed with something like a high powered rifle with telescopic sights can't take out somebody like Nightwing or Huntress because they are wearing a close fitting uniform??

LOL.

I think you're underestimating just how bullet-resistant a lot of those close-fitting uniforms are. Impossible by real-life standards, but not by DCU standards. Plus, like I said, they all have physical capabilities that would be superhuman in this world, but aren't in theirs. That includes things like reaction speed, durability, etc.

I never said it would be impossible, just very difficult. Your hypothetical assassin would be going after some of the top-tier unpowered humans on the planet in terms of physical abilities.

[JackDaw]

These characters have survived the most powerful assassins in the DCU. No way a merely "competent" assassin would take them out. Every bat family member have feats of surviving way more skilled foes. Street levellers are all way above the level of a normal peak human.

Nightwing frequently goes up against Deathstroke, the most skilled assassin probably in the DCU who is enhanced beyond peak human. And sometimes he beats him.

If Deathjoke shoots Nightwing with a high powered rifle...taking a headshot say...just how does Nightwing survive??

I'm "talking here" about taking the characters purported power sets at face value, rather than going by the time honoured DC storytelling convention that no villain however powerful or competent can ever kill an hero capable of selling a few thousand solo comics.

[dan12456]

If Deathjoke shoots Nightwing with a high powered rifle...taking a headshot say...just how does Nightwing survive??

I'm "talking here" about taking the characters purported power sets at face value, rather than going by the time honoured DC storytelling convention that no villain however powerful or competent can ever kill an hero capable of selling a few thousand solo comics.

Sure but Nightwing is trained to spot assassins and can dodge bullets. If the bullet hits him in the head he dies. But 9/10 I'd bet on Nightwing not to get hit.

And I have no idea how to separate the power set from the feats. We only learn about power sets from feats. Nightwing has bullet dodging feats and incredible speed feats beyond that of a realistic peak human. So that's his power set.

[JackDaw]

Sure but Nightwing is trained to spot assassins and can dodge bullets. If the bullet hits him in the head he dies. But 9/10 I'd bet on Nightwing not to get hit.

And I have no idea how to separate the power set from the feats. We only learn about power sets from feats. Nightwing has bullet dodging feats and incredible speed feats beyond that of a realistic peak human. So that's his power set.

So aren't the stated origins, and in story claims a valid way to deduce a poweset?

Apart from bullet dodging...at close range...which I always (however wrongly) put down as cobblers writing when done by a non-supe what "incredible speed feat" has a non powered human done in DC?

And we haven't got onto poison, car sabotage, and bombs yet....

[Caivu]

If Deathjoke shoots Nightwing with a high powered rifle...taking a headshot say...just how does Nightwing survive??

He probably doesn't survive.

But at the same time, even some real-world people have taken such headshots and not only survived, but almost fully recovered.

Simo Häyhä. Shot in the jaw with an explosive round in WWII. Recovered, died in 2002.

Alistair McKinney. Survived a sniper shot clear through his brain. Needed extensive therapy, and will need constant care for the rest of his life, but his speech recovered and his personality remained intact.

That's just a couple of examples, again from real people who don't have the kind of superhuman physical stats of a DCU peak human.

Apart from bullet dodging...at close range...which I always (however wrongly) put down as cobblers writing when done by a non-supe what "incredible speed feat" has a non powered human done in DC?

One example off the top of my head: Batwoman has a 0.05-second reaction time, or 50 milliseconds. That's six to eight times faster than a human can blink, and from what I gather about three to five times faster than what's possible in reality as far as human reaction times go. And that's probably not even a particularly outstanding example.

Cassandra Cain had a feat where she moved so fast she was able to strike through a force field.

[dan12456]

So aren't the stated origins, and in story claims a valid way to deduce a poweset?

Apart from bullet dodging...at close range...which I always (however wrongly) put down as cobblers writing when done by a non-supe what "incredible speed feat" has a non powered human done in DC?

And we haven't got onto poison, car sabotage, and bombs yet....

Most in story claims are done through feats... Not to mention saying "peak human" in story would be in context of "peak human" being way higher in the universe the person says it in then in ours. Considering how many non-supes bullet dodge at close range, its obviously something perfectly doable in their universe, even if it isn't in ours. It's not bad writing when dozens of non-powered characters can do it, the power level in that universe is just higher than ours.

All crazy nightwing speedfeats. Including dodging a jesse quick super speed kick.
http://i.imgur.com/nreoI06.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/EkMbl5q.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/F4HffXE.jpg
http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/...LmpwZw==/?ref=
http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/...LmpwZw==/?ref=

And sure if they manage to poison him he dies. But I have no doubt Grayson is smarter than an average assassin and will detect the poison, notice the guy trying to poison him, etc before he is poisoned.

[Carabas]

A rare posting for me over on the Marvel thread about the Punisher, got me wondering how many of DC's super heroes would fall to a top quality non powered assassin...say somebody who would be employed by likes of Lex Luthor to take out a troublesome foe. Professional, big fee, access to good quality weaponry, but no access to really, really outlandish technology. (Lex willing to pay a big fee, but not willing to supply weapons in case attack traced back to him.)

Without plot armour? Almost all of them, including Superman.

[Shadowedeyes]

Realistically? Any human ones, maybe some of the mid range guys. But most of them are just too ridiculous to deal with realistically. Superman pretty much has to be dealt with by kryptonite, and if we "realistically" apply his super senses and speed, that's still going to be hard. Same with most of the heavy hitters, if they intelligently use their powers, it doesn't really matter how competent you are because you just can't hurt them with conventional ways.