Darks Days: The Forge #1 Spoilers/Discussion

[Assam]

I disagree. Who do you think is better?

Well, for the first part, any half-way decent time or cosmic character.

For the others, the 'detective' category is where I feel he has more superiors. Wesley Dodds, Ralph Dibney, and Vic Sage are all better in my eyes, and Detective Chimp and Pre-Flashpoint Tim (As Red Robin) I see as just as good. As for the 'strategist' category, his only clear superiors that I see are Lex Luthor and, counting the ENTIRE DCU, Braniac 5. There are others though that we know are as smart or smarter than Bruce though who we just haven't seen as strategists that much , such as Ted Kord and Michael Holt.

[Assam]

The 10th Doctor is the best!

He may have been the first Doctor I knew, but he's still the worst. Far too human, a coward, and a sanctimonious ponce.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

This was a pretty awful beginning. It came off as just sloppily written and rushed through the story. There's also the fact that it basically just read as Scott Snyder just trying to tell us "look how awesome Batman is, guys! Everyone in the DC Universe listens to him and bends over backwards for him." I mean, seriously? Scott just leaves because Bruce told him to?? Clark not only followed Bruce's orders to keep a secret room in his Fortress that he was never to look into, but then also never even questioned Bruce as to what he was doing?? That's just.....so stupid.

I get that Snyder is "all Batman, all the time" but that kind of ruins Batman. Batman is supposed to be a regular human guy. It kind of negates that whole aspect of him when you have him running around telling everyone else in the DCU (many of whom are vastly more powerful than he is) what to do and treating them like his employees. I say that as someone who loves Batman. But I love the real Batman, not this weird Batgod concept. Please, please DC, find someone else to head up your Batbooks.

[Sacred Knight]

Zeeguy, we often, very often disagree. On this we 100% agree.

[AlexanderLuthor]

This was a pretty awful beginning. It came off as just sloppily written and rushed through the story. There's also the fact that it basically just read as Scott Snyder just trying to tell us "look how awesome Batman is, guys! Everyone in the DC Universe listens to him and bends over backwards for him." I mean, seriously? Scott just leaves because Bruce told him to?? Clark not only followed Bruce's orders to keep a secret room in his Fortress that he was never to look into, but then also never even questioned Bruce as to what he was doing?? That's just.....so stupid.

I get that Snyder is "all Batman, all the time" but that kind of ruins Batman. Batman is supposed to be a regular human guy. It kind of negates that whole aspect of him when you have him running around telling everyone else in the DCU (many of whom are vastly more powerful than he is) what to do and treating them like his employees. I say that as someone who loves Batman. But I love the real Batman, not this weird Batgod concept. Please, please DC, find someone else to head up your Batbooks.

I hear all of your complaints and agree to some degree. I just think Batman is a very problematic character in a shared universe of powerful beings. On the one hand, he's far and away DC's most popular character, sells books, and many seem to like the BatGod. On the other hand, he really serves zero utility on a team featuring demi-gods. He can't even really fill the "Oracle role" since Cyborg is a living computer. It's like writing Sherlock Holmes into a battle of the gods, it makes no sense. Although this made a lot more sense than when Tomasi had Batman and his Hellsuit invade Apokolips and kick Darkseid's a**

[C-Dot]

The 10th Doctor is the best!

Fourth laughs at that notion.

[skyvolt2000]

This was a pretty awful beginning. It came off as just sloppily written and rushed through the story. There's also the fact that it basically just read as Scott Snyder just trying to tell us "look how awesome Batman is, guys! Everyone in the DC Universe listens to him and bends over backwards for him." I mean, seriously? Scott just leaves because Bruce told him to?? Clark not only followed Bruce's orders to keep a secret room in his Fortress that he was never to look into, but then also never even questioned Bruce as to what he was doing?? That's just.....so stupid.

I get that Snyder is "all Batman, all the time" but that kind of ruins Batman. Batman is supposed to be a regular human guy. It kind of negates that whole aspect of him when you have him running around telling everyone else in the DCU (many of whom are vastly more powerful than he is) what to do and treating them like his employees. I say that as someone who loves Batman. But I love the real Batman, not this weird Batgod concept. Please, please DC, find someone else to head up your Batbooks.

This has been going on for years before Snyder. This is nothing new and it's a consequence of a character that no matter how bad the story could be-no dares not order it in large numbers. It's going to sell and get plenty of reprints as Batman 24 is doing.

What you just pointed out is a complaint MANY have screamed about. Including store owners who can only sell the book because you got folks buying it.

That book was too damn busy. You need 10 different books.

If Scott Free knew what he was hiding-he wouldn't have left. Nor would Batman have a lock that only a New God could open-especially with Cyborg running around with Mother Box tech in him.

If Batman didn't want Superman looking-wouldn't he put up some lead lining on the door or room to make sure? In fact wouldn't somebody notice that thing coming to Earth? Especially guys like Dr Fate? Spectre?

Doesn't Duke have a father? And Mom is some immortal? Where was that power when Joker gave her the gas?

Hal's ring acting like that to the Joker was odd and why does Batman records have Hal's weakness as yellow when it hasn't been that for years?

When did Michael Holt become Dr Who? If he could bounce between worlds-where was that in Earth 2?

I can see why folks are not happy. It like they are trying to solve too many things at once. Stuff that a Duke, Outsiders, Mr Miracle, Hawkman and even GL book could start with and explain and then lead to Dark Forge.

[Maxi]

Overall I liked the issue a lot, I feel like this has the potential to be the best DC event in a long time.

Though I don't know if I like the idea of Fate's helmet, Aquaman's trident and Wonder Woman's bracelets being made of the same metal as Hawkman? Wouldn't that take away what makes Hawkman special?

Also, DC continuity is a hot mess right now, some things are canon (Superman's history) others aren't (the Outsiders don't seem to have existed before this). Superman seems to have been active for like 15 years but Batman and Wonder Woman less, and the Titans are still in his early 20s. It just makes me real sad that there's no real effort by DC to make a coherent continuity again. How can you expect your readers to take your comics seriously when you as a company don't? DC's past is just a big blank right now.

They've just given up.

[skyvolt2000]

I hear all of your complaints and agree to some degree. I just think Batman is a very problematic character in a shared universe of powerful beings. On the one hand, he's far and away DC's most popular character, sells books, and many seem to like the BatGod. On the other hand, he really serves zero utility on a team featuring demi-gods. He can't even really fill the "Oracle role" since Cyborg is a living computer. It's like writing Sherlock Holmes into a battle of the gods, it makes no sense. Although this made a lot more sense than when Tomasi had Batman and his Hellsuit invade Apokolips and kick Darkseid's a**

He is still HUMAN and like Daredevil and so many others have to rely on other ways to win.

Writers fail to understand that because they write Batman fan fiction. You get someone like Priest - you get a Batman not written by fanboys playing with the keys to the bank. Which is why we get so many Batman is God stories.

A real writer could show you how valuable Batman is along with his collection of kids, villains and Outsiders. Nor would we be in year two of what is Duke's name.

[Desean101101]

This has been going on for years before Snyder. This is nothing new and it's a consequence of a character that no matter how bad the story could be-no dares not order it in large numbers. It's going to sell and get plenty of reprints as Batman 24 is doing.

What you just pointed out is a complaint MANY have screamed about. Including store owners who can only sell the book because you got folks buying it.

That book was too damn busy. You need 10 different books.

If Scott Free knew what he was hiding-he wouldn't have left. Nor would Batman have a lock that only a New God could open-especially with Cyborg running around with Mother Box tech in him.

If Batman didn't want Superman looking-wouldn't he put up some lead lining on the door or room to make sure? In fact wouldn't somebody notice that thing coming to Earth? Especially guys like Dr Fate? Spectre?

Doesn't Duke have a father? And Mom is some immortal? Where was that power when Joker gave her the gas?

Hal's ring acting like that to the Joker was odd and why does Batman records have Hal's weakness as yellow when it hasn't been that for years?

When did Michael Holt become Dr Who? If he could bounce between worlds-where was that in Earth 2?

I can see why folks are not happy. It like they are trying to solve too many things at once. Stuff that a Duke, Outsiders, Mr Miracle, Hawkman and even GL book could start with and explain and then lead to Dark Forge.

We know the main helmet of Fate can Can make weaker copies of itself from the Doctor Fate Book With Kent nelson and His Egyptian Nephew.

Scott can get in and out of places without having to interface with it. Bruce doesn't know exactly is up with the tower so why risk exposing Victor to something dangerous when you Can get Scott Free to open it for you.

Its because Hal Has been off Earth for a very long time. He hasn't been on earth to interact with Bruce and The Joker since before The both of them got Doused in Dionysium. Space cop **** in the universe is very time consuming.

Also Bruce probably has in his notes about green lanturns used to be vulnerable to Yellow but not so much anymore depending on the corps member. Some of the trainee's manifest the weakness before Killowog finishes basic, but It is usually taught how to ex spell it.

[Prof. Warren]

This was a pretty awful beginning. It came off as just sloppily written and rushed through the story. There's also the fact that it basically just read as Scott Snyder just trying to tell us "look how awesome Batman is, guys! Everyone in the DC Universe listens to him and bends over backwards for him." I mean, seriously? Scott just leaves because Bruce told him to?? Clark not only followed Bruce's orders to keep a secret room in his Fortress that he was never to look into, but then also never even questioned Bruce as to what he was doing?? That's just.....so stupid.

I get that Snyder is "all Batman, all the time" but that kind of ruins Batman. Batman is supposed to be a regular human guy. It kind of negates that whole aspect of him when you have him running around telling everyone else in the DCU (many of whom are vastly more powerful than he is) what to do and treating them like his employees. I say that as someone who loves Batman. But I love the real Batman, not this weird Batgod concept. Please, please DC, find someone else to head up your Batbooks.

Yeah, based on my dislike of Snyder's take on Batman, I was going to pass on this but I gave it a shot anyway. Ugh. So awful.

If a comic could somehow get the MST3K treatment, this would be a prime candidate.

On the upside, it instantly squashed any spark of interest I might have had in Metal so I can pay it no mind from this point forward.

[BatmanJones]

Yikes, the price is painful to look at but the story looks interesting

Comics like this one are a bargain at any price. So much great story, so much great art, so many great character beats and reveals. Think of it as being a much better bargain than any other TWO comics and maybe it won't feel so high to you. I would be amazed if anyone that read the comic felt it was overpriced.

[Assam]

I would be amazed if anyone that read the comic felt it was overpriced.

You have noticed that some people really didn't like this comic, right? Even just within this thread? Like, for example, in the post right above yours.

Me personally, I thought it was incredibly mediocre, not great or terrible.

[Doctor Kent Nelson]

We know the main helmet of Fate can Can make weaker copies of itself from the Doctor Fate Book With Kent nelson and His Egyptian Nephew.

Scott can get in and out of places without having to interface with it. Bruce doesn't know exactly is up with the tower so why risk exposing Victor to something dangerous when you Can get Scott Free to open it for you.

Its because Hal Has been off Earth for a very long time. He hasn't been on earth to interact with Bruce and The Joker since before The both of them got Doused in Dionysium. Space cop **** in the universe is very time consuming.

Also Bruce probably has in his notes about green lanturns used to be vulnerable to Yellow but not so much anymore depending on the corps member. Some of the trainee's manifest the weakness before Killowog finishes basic, but It is usually taught how to ex spell it.

I'm not sure if that's valid anymore about the Dr Fate helmet? Check out Blue Beetle.

[mike627]

The book is great! Wonderful to see Plas again! So,Crisis has happened and Batman has been working this for years.Setting up various teams and individuals to help investigate.Will we see The Anti-Monitor? And how will Endgame Joker fit?