Darks Days: The Forge #1 Spoilers/Discussion

[Jadeb]

Yeah, I wasnt a fan of the implications there. I'm hoping

spoilers:

when he said "his molecules were too unstable" that it was an indication that Plastic Man was in some sort of terrible condition, and that the tank was some sort of stasis-chamber

end of spoilers

Then again, he's

spoilers:

keeping the joker prisoner in the batcave

end of spoilers

Different subject, sure. But same methodology.

But I enjoyed the rest of the story. Just hoping Batman has some legitimate justification for all this secrecy and imprisonment. >~>

Unfortunately, the actual line is, spoilers:

"We all agreed he was too unstable ... That there was no end to what he could do if we weren't careful."

end of spoilers

I hope that refers to a benevolent intent, but it sure doesn't sound like it.

[The Whovian]

he's got my vote. I've liked them all to varying degrees since 8, but 10's still my favorite.

[The Whovian]

spoilers:

I don't think Bruce is experimenting on Plas. I think he's probably just been stuck in that form and Bruce has been trying to get him out of it.

end of spoilers

Agreed. I think this is the more likely scenario.

[DragonPiece]

Why do I get the feeling are we gonna get a Hulk like moment from Plastic Man in this book, where out of nowhere he'll show up to save the day...

[K. Jones]

Unfortunately, the actual line is, spoilers:

"We all agreed he was too unstable ... That there was no end to what he could do if we weren't careful."

end of spoilers

I hope that refers to a benevolent intent, but it sure doesn't sound like it.

It read to me like the writer used that very particular dialogue so that we'd still be guessing whether it was somebody good or nefarious he had hidden in there.

[Frontier]

spoilers:

Y'know, I'm just really curious to see what the context of what's going on with Plas means, since it's possible his career has been restored with Superman: Reborn though the last we saw of him in the New 52 was his "origin" in Forever Evil courtesy of Owl Man.

end of spoilers

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Also, DC continuity is a hot mess right now, some things are canon (Superman's history) others aren't (the Outsiders don't seem to have existed before this).

Snyder seems to actually be saying that the Outsiders existed like they did before Flashpoint, but is retconning their purpose as a team, implicating that there was really a secret reason for their existence all along.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

then again, considering the whole Brother Eye fiasco I guess he has reasons to doubt himself, even if he doesn't yet now it was/will be a fiasco, I can't remember how Future's End reached the main period

Brother Eye went berserk years ago. Ever read Infinite Crisis?

[Korath]

I'll have to read it again. Truth been told, Brother Eye always confuse me. Like, all the freaking time he is mentioned in comics, I'm lost about the when...

[phantom1592]

Well, that's the difficulty that comes with Batman dealing with those kind of secrets and mysteries. He is probably the most suited in the JL at a mental level (that is, the most suited in the way he thinks, not regarding speed of thought or knowledge, because he is the only one who can have so many layers of secrecy and hidden bases, it comes with his psyche) to deal with this kind of things, but in the same time, he has a really hard time trusting others most of the time, and when he doesn't truly has, it's him he isn't trusting (then again, considering the whole Brother Eye fiasco I guess he has reasons to doubt himself, even if he doesn't yet now it was/will be a fiasco, I can't remember how Future's End reached the main period).

Plus, there is the whole problem of having a mere mortal in a team of god-like beings. It's one of the reason I've always favoured Batman's stories separated from much of the outside D.C. Universe, because I think that Bat isn't very suited to the shared universe. You either have to make him what he is in Dark Days : The Forge or you have to make him useless when it comes to those kind of threats. I know Batman is selling a lot of money (and he is my favourite Comics character, period) but I still think that D.C. made a mistake in putting him in the JLA back in the day. If they truly wanted a shared universe, he should have been the leader of a ground-level task-force, dealing with mundane (relatively speaking) problems while the JL would tackle cosmic/mystical challenges.

But I'm digressing quite a bit from the Forge.

The only problem with Batman is focusing on the wrong aspects of his character. He should NEVER have become this super paranoid psycho who can't trust anyone... That's not who he is. The man's had 4 robins, 3 batgirls, and a batdog... he's been a founding member of most Justice Leagues and the Outsiders... He's always BEEN a team player. Heck the way that mansion is over croweded now... he's more like Professor X now. Bringing in new recruits and training them to use their abilities to better the world. The idea of the dark solo street fighter is always flawed.

Justice League is only a problem when constantly fighting Darkseid. Against other random alien invaders or other dimensional enemies, he's as good against them as he is against Clayface or Bane. His 'peak human ability' should be more then enough for most enemies regardless of their origin. Things like Sun-eaters and such... yeah, he's outclassed... but then so are most people.

Batman should be the general of the team. I believe that's his best spot, much like Captain America. He has studied everyone's strengths and weaknesses.... NOT so he can kill them all later, but to make them a better unit. Much like when he uses Nightwings agility and Tim's intelligence in a cohesive strike force, he could direct a group of individual heroes to fight as a unit.

Besides... the JL isn't really 'god-like'. There may be Superman and Martian Manhunter... but there is also Aquaman and Black Canary and Green Arrow and Hawkman and a ton of people with more modest power levels that Batman would rank above with skill and gadgets.

[K. Jones]

I'll have to read it again. Truth been told, Brother Eye always confuse me. Like, all the freaking time he is mentioned in comics, I'm lost about the when...

One of the things I've thought of much recently, particularly last year (or the year before, time's flying!) upon reading Kirby's original OMAC run, is that everything that has turned up regarding Brother Eye and OMACs set in the "current day and age" of the DCU is all really you know ... "PROTOMACS" and "Brother Eye Betas". Wanting to bring Kirby's "near-future" concepts into early forms to contrast against the current mainstream DCU characters is not a bad idea in and of itself, but they've gotten onto some tangents they haven't been able to get off of, and one of them is always like, that Brother Eye being a satellite has to be a big brother/evil/turns everything into cyber-zombies tangent. Also it's always linked to like the whole internet/technology/total control theme, when it could just be an independent satellite with a link to a single human host and doesn't need the whole SkyNet thing. Satellites and technology like that are part of our everyday lives now, and the only ones we get in comics are always evil menaces, instead of just helpful tools for superheroing.

[Robotman]

I don't think DC will change Plas too much as Rebirth is about bringing back classic versions of characters. I just saw that scene as Batman being his usual paranoid self and freaking out that a career criminal now has superpowers. Though now that I think about it it's probably a smart move, since we're seen that Plas can be pretty damn powerful if he just focuses (which doesn't happen too often).

[gwangung]

The only problem with Batman is focusing on the wrong aspects of his character. He should NEVER have become this super paranoid psycho who can't trust anyone... That's not who he is. The man's had 4 robins, 3 batgirls, and a batdog... he's been a founding member of most Justice Leagues and the Outsiders... He's always BEEN a team player. Heck the way that mansion is over croweded now... he's more like Professor X now. Bringing in new recruits and training them to use their abilities to better the world. The idea of the dark solo street fighter is always flawed.

Justice League is only a problem when constantly fighting Darkseid. Against other random alien invaders or other dimensional enemies, he's as good against them as he is against Clayface or Bane. His 'peak human ability' should be more then enough for most enemies regardless of their origin. Things like Sun-eaters and such... yeah, he's outclassed... but then so are most people.

Batman should be the general of the team. I believe that's his best spot, much like Captain America. He has studied everyone's strengths and weaknesses.... NOT so he can kill them all later, but to make them a better unit. Much like when he uses Nightwings agility and Tim's intelligence in a cohesive strike force, he could direct a group of individual heroes to fight as a unit.

Besides... the JL isn't really 'god-like'. There may be Superman and Martian Manhunter... but there is also Aquaman and Black Canary and Green Arrow and Hawkman and a ton of people with more modest power levels that Batman would rank above with skill and gadgets.

I agree with a lot of this, particularly the Robins....that's a freakin' good bit of charisma if you can inspire multiple (over five!) people to follow in your footsteps as a hero....

Also, I always thought his friendship with Superman was that he gets to be a straight man...it's an excuse for him to be humorous and lighten up by PLAYING (not being) an ultra serious character.

[phantom1592]

I agree with a lot of this, particularly the Robins....that's a freakin' good bit of charisma if you can inspire multiple (over five!) people to follow in your footsteps as a hero....

Especially when you have them training next to memorial cases and people in wheelchairs... Doesn't make the job look THAT appealing!

[HandofPrometheus]

I don't think DC will change Plas too much as Rebirth is about bringing back classic versions of characters. I just saw that scene as Batman being his usual paranoid self and freaking out that a career criminal now has superpowers. Though now that I think about it it's probably a smart move, since we're seen that Plas can be pretty damn powerful if he just focuses (which doesn't happen too often).

Funny thing is Snyder says this in one of the interviews. "DC in terms of bringing back connective tissue between the characters, bringing back legacy, then now is the time for us to experiment with new directions, with new characters and to keep that spirit to make sure that we are true to core, making sure that we are not bending the characters, sometimes, like they got bent in The New 52, to far-right of center."