Is Marvel Comics the new Barbie?

[Danileriver23]

Well something to consider is the fact that, and I don't think anyone would disagree with me here; but WAY MORE people strongly identify with aspects of themselves such as race, gender, and/or sex because a lot of times there is a cultural aspect associated with it.

Speaking strictly in terms of body diversity, no one strives to be obese or fat. Now, obviously there are a lot of factors associated with someone's weight, and controlling that is more diffuclt for some, but no one says "I wanna be large" with exception of maybe like 1% of the population. And I've never heard of anybody identify themselves first and foremost as a tall or lanky person.

The STRONGEST argument I could see made for diversity is making a midget hero or someone with dwarfism (is that the same), but that's dangerous because no matter how well intentioned you are, they're probably gonna get made fun of.

[Exciter]

Perhaps people don't strive to be overweight, but many individuals are and are comfortable with themselves nonetheless. For example, look at the plus-size models who often appear in "inspirational" memes.

Marvel makes a big deal about being able to see yourself in their characters. 2/3s of Americans are overweight. If you lift and are totally buff that's cool, but I bet you can imagine a young person out there that feels body-shamed and could be inspired by the fact that being a hero isn't about having abdominal muscle striations that you can see through clothes. They'd probably appreciate seeing that an overweight person can be a hero too.

[Danileriver23]

Perhaps people don't strive to be overweight, but many individuals are and are comfortable with themselves nonetheless. For example, look at the plus-size models who often appear in "inspirational" memes.

Marvel makes a big deal about being able to see yourself in their characters. 2/3s of Americans are overweight. If you lift and are totally buff that's cool, but I bet you can imagine a young person out there that feels body-shamed and could be inspired by the fact that being a hero isn't about having abdominal muscle striations that you can see through clothes. They'd probably appreciate seeing that an overweight person can be a hero too.

Well if we're talking in terms of "seeing yourself in a character" again, how you see yourself determines what traits you imply onto certain character when you aspire to be them. What I'm saying is that being comfortable with your weight is fine, but no one see's a character like faith and says "I wanna be big like her!". In fact, I'd argue in most cases, when people are living through these characters, they aren't saying "I wanna be like captain America because he has rad muscles" it's his character traits that people cling to.

Now on a personal level, people's gender, race, sex, body type, and favorite food have little to no bearing on my enjoyment on a series, and to be honest, I have always been baffled by people who say they can relate more to someone just because they look like them. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, I get that to a lot of people it's important, but I just don't see it.

However, again, even with my limited understanding of that, I wouldn't say that people necessarily "identify themselves" by standards of body types. And no one is claiming you HAVE to have a 16pack to be a hero. The reason heroes are drawn like that is because when superheroes were created they were meant to be larger than life characters and the pinnacle of humanity, the best we have to offer. No one relates to superman because he can bench a bus, they relate to him because he's a good guy.

[Exciter]

Well, I think we disagree. I think certain people do want to be like Faith and can identify strongly with her.

[dragonmp93]

Well, I think we disagree. I think certain people do want to be like Faith and can identify strongly with her.

With her personality and struggles or with her body ?.

[Tiamatty]

And i would like a male superhero without a six pack and muscles of the size of the Captain America. But that's not going to happen either.

Anyways, given that the US has restaurants that are legally required to have an on-site ready-to-go ambulance in the case of one of its regular customers suffers a heart attack; besides of the national obssession with bacon and frying everything, sure lets blame the superhero comics.

Why couldn't it happen? Why couldn't we have more male heroes with different body shapes, too?

And it's not about blaming comics. It's about blaming an overall culture that treats fat as something worthy only of scorn and mockery. It's also blaming economic conditions that make it incredibly difficult for low-income people to eat healthy. It's about a whole lot of things, really. Comics may be a small part of it, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to be better.

I agree with a lot of what you guys have said but I disagree with the "realistic body type assertion" or how "big titties and small waists" is something unrealistic.

Quick clarification: I meant that huge chests and small waists are uncommon on particularly athletic women. Exercise burns fat, breasts are mostly fat, so a lot of exercise actually reduces breast size. So relatively few female superheroes would actually be particularly large-chested.

Before the age of Bendis were all the off-time heroes have is spent eating Chinese food, heroes actually worked out. X-men had the danger room, remember?

So it's not like all heroes magically are fit, they work to be fit. Even though there has been explanations a few times that people do become magically fit because they gain powers.

There! Is! Not! One! Way! To! Be! Fit!

And, yes, having the main characters be fit makes sense.

There! Is! Not! One! Way! To! Be! Fit!

Those people need to get over it.

Yeah, why can't people just "get over" deep-seated emotional issues resulting from a widespread culture of shaming people whose body types aren't what the entertainment industry has decided is ideal? "Get over it" is one of those attitudes that makes it harder for people to actually deal with their problems. It is a stupid, asinine, privileged and harmful attitude. "Why do you have an eating disorder? Just eat healthy." "Why are you depressed? Just cheer up?" "Why are you handicapped? Just get up and walk." Screw every single person whose reaction to someone having emotional or psychological issues is "get over it."

At a certain point, other people need to get over it, especially fans who are old enough to vote. They should not need to "identify with" characters anywhere near as much as they seem. The problem is not their fat asses, it is their fat heads.

Representation matters. It absolutely matters. There have been studies showing that it matters. Did you see the commentary when Wonder Woman came out, from women talking about crying in the theatre, because of how much it meant to them? Representation! Matters! It makes people feel better about themselves. It makes them feel like they matter. And they need that, because they live in a world that tries reeeeally hard to tell them they don't matter.



Edit: Oh, I forgot another counter to the "superheroes should be fit" nonsense. Superheroes! Are! Not! The! Only! Characters! In! Superhero! Comics! There are supporting characters! Including human ones who don't have careers that require perfect supermodel bodies! I mean, is Peter Parker so shallow that he would throw up at the very idea of dating a girl who's a size 16?

[Tiamatty]

Well something to consider is the fact that, and I don't think anyone would disagree with me here; but WAY MORE people strongly identify with aspects of themselves such as race, gender, and/or sex because a lot of times there is a cultural aspect associated with it.

Speaking strictly in terms of body diversity, no one strives to be obese or fat. Now, obviously there are a lot of factors associated with someone's weight, and controlling that is more diffuclt for some, but no one says "I wanna be large" with exception of maybe like 1% of the population. And I've never heard of anybody identify themselves first and foremost as a tall or lanky person.

The STRONGEST argument I could see made for diversity is making a midget hero or someone with dwarfism (is that the same), but that's dangerous because no matter how well intentioned you are, they're probably gonna get made fun of.

Plenty of people do identify with their body type, too. The Kelly Thompson et al run of Jem & the Holograms had both Aja and Stormer as big girls, and a lot of people loved those characters, with their sizes being parts of that. Stormer, in particular, who's big and adorable. People love her. They love that her weight isn't treated as a moral failing, or as the butt of jokes. In fact, her spotlight issue of the Misfits mini brought a lot of readers to tears, because they related so damn hard to Stormer's complex feelings about her body. They see themselves in Stormer, someone who's big but also sweet and cheerful and super cute.

So, yeah, people do relate to body type. They do see themselves in fat characters. They may not aspire to be fat, but they aspire to be comfortable with themselves. To be happy with who they are. And when they see characters who look like them, and who aren't ashamed, it makes them feel less ashamed.

And contrary to the "fat people should feel bad!" bullshit you see a lot of, no one deserves to feel bad just for how they look. People deserve to be happy. People deserve to like themselves. And, in fact, people who like themselves are actually more likely to take care of themselves.

Normalizing obesity in popular culture would make big people fell better about themselves. This would result in most of these people being less likely to engage in self-destructive behaviour. We would help far, far, far more people by having fat characters whose weight is never an issue, then we do by treating obesity as gross and shameful.

[Exciter]

With her personality and struggles or with her body ?.

It's not presented as a struggle from what I've read. She's just a hero who happens to be overweight.

[Beorg]

Normalizing obesity in popular culture would make big people fell better about themselves. This would result in most of these people being less likely to engage in self-destructive behaviour. We would help far, far, far more people by having fat characters whose weight is never an issue, then we do by treating obesity as gross and shameful.

Followed by a shirt with ''Enjoy that heart attack and other diseases'.

[dragonmp93]

Why couldn't it happen? Why couldn't we have more male heroes with different body shapes, too?

And it's not about blaming comics. It's about blaming an overall culture that treats fat as something worthy only of scorn and mockery. It's also blaming economic conditions that make it incredibly difficult for low-income people to eat healthy. It's about a whole lot of things, really. Comics may be a small part of it, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to be better.


Quick clarification: I meant that huge chests and small waists are uncommon on particularly athletic women. Exercise burns fat, breasts are mostly fat, so a lot of exercise actually reduces breast size. So relatively few female superheroes would actually be particularly large-chested.


There! Is! Not! One! Way! To! Be! Fit!


There! Is! Not! One! Way! To! Be! Fit!


Yeah, why can't people just "get over" deep-seated emotional issues resulting from a widespread culture of shaming people whose body types aren't what the entertainment industry has decided is ideal? "Get over it" is one of those attitudes that makes it harder for people to actually deal with their problems. It is a stupid, asinine, privileged and harmful attitude. "Why do you have an eating disorder? Just eat healthy." "Why are you depressed? Just cheer up?" "Why are you handicapped? Just get up and walk." Screw every single person whose reaction to someone having emotional or psychological issues is "get over it."


Representation matters. It absolutely matters. There have been studies showing that it matters. Did you see the commentary when Wonder Woman came out, from women talking about crying in the theatre, because of how much it meant to them? Representation! Matters! It makes people feel better about themselves. It makes them feel like they matter. And they need that, because they live in a world that tries reeeeally hard to tell them they don't matter.



Edit: Oh, I forgot another counter to the "superheroes should be fit" nonsense. Superheroes! Are! Not! The! Only! Characters! In! Superhero! Comics! There are supporting characters! Including human ones who don't have careers that require perfect supermodel bodies! I mean, is Peter Parker so shallow that he would throw up at the very idea of dating a girl who's a size 16?

Well, he sold his marriage to Mephisto in exchange of the life of Aunt May, who was okay with dying; so god knows.

[Yagamifire]

A child identifying with a fat hero is unhealthy. Full-stop.

It's an unhealthy mentality to identify with unhealthy decision making. It's why we don't extol drug abuse...because it's bad for you. I mean, why can't a junky kid have a junky hero to look up to? Because it's not something to strive for.

I was a fat kid growing up. I have awful genetics and a legitimate medical condition that makes it very very difficult for me to keep weight off. I have to be tested yearly to make sure I haven't crossed certain hormonal thresholds (for which my mother has herself been on medication for two decades). At some point I may have to start taking that same medication. Maybe.

I am not as thin as I would like to be and, yes, some part of that can be attributed to difficulty with the aforementioned condition. What part of it? Not much. And an amount overcome by effort. I don't use it as an excuse. I own my decisions. I grew up liking Venom, a gym-nut in the comics that was constantly shown lifting weights. My father is also a fitness nut who grew up very heavy but is in incredible shape to this day. Because of effort. I grew up idolizing him as well. Why? Because, like Venom, he actually works towards what he wants. He puts forth effort. Now I bust my ass to do the same.

If I grew up idolozing and "seeing myself" in fat heroes that don't put in the effort or show the self-restraint necessary to be healthy? Pfft. I'd be extremely heavy. If I followed the thought process in the OP's article? I'd be very obese and very unhealthy because of that.

People don't like unhealthy body types because of a little thing called called "evolution" and "the sexual marketplace". Ignoring that is science-denial of the highest order. People like looking at healthy, attractive body types. Overweight bodies are not attractive.

The people pushing these insipid articles are not comic book readers. They drool over Chris Hemsworth and watch porn with beautiful people in it. They are hypocrites pushing a dangerous, even deadly, bit of propaganda that elevates emotions over cold, hard logic and facts.

It's snake-oil. It's the opposite of heroic. For those too wrapped up in emotional validation to realize the harm they're doing it's just ignorance. To those exploiting it to earn clicks? It's outright villainy.

[Vegan Daddy]

I'm so down with fat superheroes. Colossus was drawn like a chunky bear in Extraordinary X-Men. I want more of that.

[Tiamatty]

Followed by a shirt with ''Enjoy that heart attack and other diseases'.

Right, because fat-shaming has been so frigging successful in combating obesity. Treating it as bad has just been such a big help.

A child identifying with a fat hero is unhealthy. Full-stop.

It's an unhealthy mentality to identify with unhealthy decision making. It's why we don't extol drug abuse...because it's bad for you. I mean, why can't a junky kid have a junky hero to look up to? Because it's not something to strive for.

I was a fat kid growing up. I have awful genetics and a legitimate medical condition that makes it very very difficult for me to keep weight off. I have to be tested yearly to make sure I haven't crossed certain hormonal thresholds (for which my mother has herself been on medication for two decades). At some point I may have to start taking that same medication. Maybe.

I am not as thin as I would like to be and, yes, some part of that can be attributed to difficulty with the aforementioned condition. What part of it? Not much. And an amount overcome by effort. I don't use it as an excuse. I own my decisions. I grew up liking Venom, a gym-nut in the comics that was constantly shown lifting weights. My father is also a fitness nut who grew up very heavy but is in incredible shape to this day. Because of effort. I grew up idolizing him as well. Why? Because, like Venom, he actually works towards what he wants. He puts forth effort. Now I bust my ass to do the same.

If I grew up idolozing and "seeing myself" in fat heroes that don't put in the effort or show the self-restraint necessary to be healthy? Pfft. I'd be extremely heavy. If I followed the thought process in the OP's article? I'd be very obese and very unhealthy because of that.

People don't like unhealthy body types because of a little thing called called "evolution" and "the sexual marketplace". Ignoring that is science-denial of the highest order. People like looking at healthy, attractive body types. Overweight bodies are not attractive.

The people pushing these insipid articles are not comic book readers. They drool over Chris Hemsworth and watch porn with beautiful people in it. They are hypocrites pushing a dangerous, even deadly, bit of propaganda that elevates emotions over cold, hard logic and facts.

It's snake-oil. It's the opposite of heroic. For those too wrapped up in emotional validation to realize the harm they're doing it's just ignorance. To those exploiting it to earn clicks? It's outright villainy.

Did you know there are cultures today that actually do view fat as desirable? That many cultures throughout history have viewed it as desirable? Yeah, the body types people like to look at change a lot. Sometimes, thinness is valued. Other times, fat is valued.

And, again, treating fat as something bad, something to be avoided, has done jack **** to actually reduce obesity rates. All it's done is made people emotionally unhealthy, which makes them eat more. Poor emotional health results in poor physical health. That's not complicated. When people feel like they're garbage, it'll be that much harder for them to take care of themselves. When people like themselves, they're more likely to take care of themselves.

Giving fat kids fat role models isn't going to make the kids fatter. It's going to make them feel like their weight doesn't make them less of a person, or less deserving of respect and happiness and love.

[Beorg]

That many cultures throughout history have viewed it as desirable? Yeah, the body types people like to look at change a lot. Sometimes, thinness is valued. Other times, fat is valued.

Being slightly overweight was seen as a sign of wealth and privilege, not exclusively sexual attraction. And even when some sultan/emperor had a fat mistress in his court she was no different than a circus freak.

[Star_Jammer]

Right, because fat-shaming has been so frigging successful in combating obesity. Treating it as bad has just been such a big help.

Why do you act as if there's nothing between "fat shaming" and "normalizing being overweight"?