Why hasn't Cyclops really been forgiven for his actions?

[anthony_lynch15]

In my opinion, "Whats the plan to rehabilitate Cyclops" is a better question.

Well Cyclops still has The Void in his head if a writer is looking for an easy retcon.







Someone opened the door.......

[Tmacaoni]

The ousting happened way after, during the Utopia era; i was talking about what happened right after M-day.

Then I'm confused. Xavier lost his X-gene during M-day. How could he lead anything when at that time if you weren't a mutant you were forced out anyway? He did come back during the Vulcan fiasco and I believe after...up until finally thrown out when he did Legacy. Xavier didn't leave any responsibility to Scott. Again Scott took that responsibility for himself needed no help with it. If Xavier left anything...it was to the X-men themselves.

[Agent Z]

Well Cyclops still has The Void in his head if a writer is looking for an easy retcon.







Someone opened the door.......

There's also that business with Apocalypse he never actually got help for.

[Tmacaoni]

Factually incorrect, he was shown over and over and over again being absolutely destroyed about what he did while possessed by the Phoenix. From the brief moment of clarity during AvX when he begged to be killed, to AvX Consequences when he was suicidal and tried to goad Wolverine into killing him, to the entirety of Bendis's run (whatever else you think of Bendis his Cyclops was obviously remorseful and trying to atone). He was instantly remorseful, however in the immediate aftermath of AvX he did say he would do it again, not because he wasn't remorseful but because the survival of his race was more important than one person even Xavier.

This issue with Cyclops fans is that people insist on holding him to a standard that none of the other characters are held to. Jean Grey wipes out a planet, its ok it was a Cosmic force; Wolverine murders hundreds no problem it was Hand brainwashing; Scarlet Witch causes untold death and devastation, no worries it was Doom, or Cthon, or the Life Force, she's an Avenger move on; Punisher... lol; Captain America and Iron man start a civil war that lead to multiple murders but Oh well, they meant well, Reed Richards, Iron Man and Pym knowingly create a Thor clone who casually murders Goliath but don't worry they feel bad about it; Black Bolt releases an unstable gas that eventually causes untold suffering and death but its ok he didn't intend to hurt anyone; The Inhumans, knowing aforementioned cloud tortures and kills... fights to the death (of others) to defend said cloud and its ok, its their culture and look they eventually destroy it, look how noble they are; Hawkeye kills Banner but thats ok Banner might of gone Hulk and done something terrible; The Illuminati... nuff said; Namor attacks and floods manhattan multiple times... nothing to see here; Hydra Cap... moving on.

The list goes on and on yet, Cyclops, kills one person, while being attacked and fighting for his life... in a battle he didn't start... while possessed (because of Stark's actions) by a cosmic force under whose control others have been forgiven... and he's a monster.

The issue isn't about casting stones at any of the others but rightly pointing put the hypocrisy in how they are treated and how Cyclops is treated both in Comic (ehem... "Mutant Hitler") and by "fans".

To your first point, I'm going with after AvX. Didn't care for Bendis writing an X-book so I just kept up with it....not read it so you're probably right. I'll pick up back issue trades to check. (Hopefully it isn't as wordy with no substance as Avengers was)

Your second point is strange. Why would you put Cyclops in the likes of Wolveine, Punisher, and Namor? They are killers and they own it so its expected if they are possessed, controlled etc., that someone will die. HydraCap hasn't had time for anything to happen with him. I don't see him forgiven and I'm seeing in all media that people hate that the symbol of America is supporting Nazi agenda, so either you're just saying things to say things or you're not really knowing what outside sources are really saying about this Empire story. As a matter of fact, if they don't have a really good "out" for Cap, he will be a destroyed character waaay beyond what any of the characters you mentioned have suffered.

Also with the Scarlet witch thing, her whole story even with being possessed.....I mean her whole existence for 5+ years is getting redeemed. She feels like crap for what happened and you couldn't get a Wanda story without her sulking on the "devestation" that wasn't her fault, but at the very least she tried to address for 5+ years anytime she was shown. If you were a fan, I can see how annoying that could be to not get any character development for a character you like, but stories of devestation and possession. All a moot point because she still won't be forgiven and most of her teammates still hate her (some want her dead) and she hasn't been on an official Avengers team since disassembled. Now here she is possessed yet again to cause even more terror and devestation.

[lollie_poppy]

Also with the Scarlet witch thing, her whole story even with being possessed.....I mean her whole existence for 5+ years is getting redeemed. She feels like crap for what happened and you couldn't get a Wanda story without her sulking on the "devestation" that wasn't her fault, but at the very least she tried to address for 5+ years anytime she was shown. If you were a fan, I can see how annoying that could be to not get any character development for a character you like, but stories of devestation and possession. All a moot point because she still won't be forgiven and most of her teammates still hate her (some want her dead) and she hasn't been on an official Avengers team since disassembled. Now here she is possessed yet again to cause even more terror and devestation.

She didn't feel bad at all lol. In CC she was going to bring mutants back because the X-men wouldn't stop pestering her, like give the X-men what they want, mre mutants. In UA she asked why was it important for mutants to be born, like she didn't even understood why Cyclops did everything he did nor she gave a fuck. Later on she believe mutants weren't a culture either, she never understood the amount of harm she caused. She commited genocide an she didn't face legal consequences because she was possesed yet Cyclops kill one guy (a mutants btw) possesed and goes to jail without a proper trial. And she was back to being an avenger in UA, the Unity Squad was an official avenger team and no one hate her everyone forgave her unlike Cyclops that is hated by every X-men.

Besides she had a revamp post SW, she had her own solo series and she's part of the magical side of the MU, how are you sayin her fans got nothing.

[CraigTheCylon]

I assume by 'his actions' we mean the entire Bendis UXM run, wherein Cyke had so much attention heaped on him that it basically torpedoed every other book, while he personally became a useless moping sadsack whose only contribution to the mutant cause was rounding up another squad of forgettable teens and...forcing them to live in a mad science doomsday bunker filled with the screams of the damned and the stench of death. (I'm honestly convinced the only reason Cyke didn't open the NXS in an actual concentration camp was Magneto continuing to stand near him all day, and Scott not wanting to listen to more of his bitching)

In which case: it wasn't that long ago, man. We are years away from forgiving that s***show.

[dragonmp93]

To your first point, I'm going with after AvX. Didn't care for Bendis writing an X-book so I just kept up with it....not read it so you're probably right. I'll pick up back issue trades to check. (Hopefully it isn't as wordy with no substance as Avengers was)

Your second point is strange. Why would you put Cyclops in the likes of Wolveine, Punisher, and Namor? They are killers and they own it so its expected if they are possessed, controlled etc., that someone will die. HydraCap hasn't had time for anything to happen with him. I don't see him forgiven and I'm seeing in all media that people hate that the symbol of America is supporting Nazi agenda, so either you're just saying things to say things or you're not really knowing what outside sources are really saying about this Empire story. As a matter of fact, if they don't have a really good "out" for Cap, he will be a destroyed character waaay beyond what any of the characters you mentioned have suffered.

Also with the Scarlet witch thing, her whole story even with being possessed.....I mean her whole existence for 5+ years is getting redeemed. She feels like crap for what happened and you couldn't get a Wanda story without her sulking on the "devestation" that wasn't her fault, but at the very least she tried to address for 5+ years anytime she was shown. If you were a fan, I can see how annoying that could be to not get any character development for a character you like, but stories of devestation and possession. All a moot point because she still won't be forgiven and most of her teammates still hate her (some want her dead) and she hasn't been on an official Avengers team since disassembled. Now here she is possessed yet again to cause even more terror and devestation.

So since when Cyclops is supposed to be the boy-scout of the Marvel Universe ?.

[Tmacaoni]

She didn't feel bad at all lol. In CC she was going to bring mutants back because the X-men wouldn't stop pestering her, like give the X-men what they want, mre mutants. In UA she asked why was it important for mutants to be born, like she didn't even understood why Cyclops did everything he did nor she gave a fuck. Later on she believe mutants weren't a culture either, she never understood the amount of harm she caused. She commited genocide an she didn't face legal consequences because she was possesed yet Cyclops kill one guy (a mutants btw) possesed and goes to jail without a proper trial. And she was back to being an avenger in UA, the Unity Squad was an official avenger team and no one hate her everyone forgave her unlike Cyclops that is hated by every X-men.

Besides she had a revamp post SW, she had her own solo series and she's part of the magical side of the MU, how are you sayin her fans got nothing.

She did feel bad. Its been shown countless times. I don't remember ever reading her saying the X-men are pestering me so I'll give them more mutants. In fact I don't think she had the ability to give them more mutants since only what...Rictor.... got his powers back and no others that I can recall.

[Tmacaoni]

So since when Cyclops is supposed to be the boy-scout of the Marvel Universe ?.

If you didn't know that Cyclops and Captain America were the "boy scouts" of the Marvel Universe then I don't know what to tell you. Its been said as jokes before for most of their careers. Of course if either of them mess up its at a much higher standard than the likes of characters who aren't shown that standard. These are the characters you believe in the most when it comes to the X-men and the Avengers respectively.

Marvel screwed Cyclops...now on to Captain America.

[lollie_poppy]

She did feel bad. Its been shown countless times. I don't remember ever reading her saying the X-men are pestering me so I'll give them more mutants. In fact I don't think she had the ability to give them more mutants since only what...Rictor.... got his powers back and no others that I can recall.

No she didn't, she blamed Doom, the Life-Force and Magneto all the time. She faced no consequences and she only tried to bring mutants back, which she could at that time, because the X-men were after her not because she believed mutant genocide was bad,. And everything that happened in AvX was her fault, the PF on earth was her fault too. And pretty much everythig that happened to Cyclops, which was him trying to fix her mess, that ended up ruining him.

[dragonmp93]

If you didn't know that Cyclops and Captain America were the "boy scouts" of the Marvel Universe then I don't know what to tell you. Its been said as jokes before for most of their careers. Of course if either of them mess up its at a much higher standard than the likes of characters who aren't shown that standard. These are the characters you believe in the most when it comes to the X-men and the Avengers respectively.

Marvel screwed Cyclops...now on to Captain America.

Well, it's not like he would care about his reputation when his friends and innocent mutants get slaughtered basically by everyone.

[Gray Lensman]

No she didn't, she blamed Doom, the Life-Force and Magneto all the time. She faced no consequences and she only tried to bring mutants back, which she could at that time, because the X-men were after her not because she believed mutant genocide was bad,. And everything that happened in AvX was her fault, the PF on earth was her fault too. And pretty much everythig that happened to Cyclops, which was him trying to fix her mess, that ended up ruining him.

Whether or not Wanda felt bad depends on what comic you read - in Bendis's All-New X-Men, Jean picked up on Wanda having eliminated most of the mutants because Wanda thinks about it constantly (heavily implying feelings of guilt), but Remender had Wanda question why there even needs to be mutants at all in his run.

[Tmacaoni]

I really can say I never realized that this huge animosity is all over the Scarlet Witch. I really was wondering why every thread that we can talk about Cyclops goes back to Wanda every time and what she did. The panels are right on this page showing she took full responsibility no matter what other characters wanted to blame. You said she didn't feel bad at all...I showed you she did.


Also to touch on another thing.....Scarlet witch didn't start the X-men mess. Magento did. Dissassembled had nothing to do with the X-men as she wanted to get revenge on the Avengers for Wasp's little side-eye comment. Family is everything to Wanda. More than being a mutant, female whatever. So when Janet got messy, she paid the ultimate price. Emotions ran wild on an uncontrolled power and we got disassembled. Avenger only related event.

Of course this wasn't good enough for Magneto. As he loves meddling in affairs that didn't concern him directly, Wanda was about to pay for her actions until he reached Charles and got the mutants involved in what I like to call: "something that didn't concern them". They sat there taking glee on killing her when she did nothing to them and then Pietro convinced her to do the House of M thing. Of course giving every character what they wanted should've been great, but nah we still remember through some deus ex machina that we need to kill Wanda. So even with mutants ruling the world and no bigotry the X-men weren't pleased. Fast forward to big fight at citadel and Magneto doing the ONE thing that would put mutants in trouble. Killing family.

[lollie_poppy]

Whether or not Wanda felt bad depends on what comic you read - in Bendis's All-New X-Men, Jean picked up on Wanda having eliminated most of the mutants because Wanda thinks about it constantly (heavily implying feelings of guilt), but Remender had Wanda question why there even needs to be mutants at all in his run.

Well right now she is more relieved than ever after finding out she is not a mutant, somehow not being related to the people you commited genocide against makes it a lot better.

[lollie_poppy]

I really can say I never realized that this huge animosity is all over the Scarlet Witch. I really was wondering why every thread that we can talk about Cyclops goes back to Wanda every time and what she did. The panels are right on this page showing she took full responsibility no matter what other characters wanted to blame. You said she didn't feel bad at all...I showed you she did..

Probably because everything that Hitlerclops did was because of the mess Wanda caused and because he had to face consequences for his actions while she didn't and it all happened at the same time. UXM vol 3 and UA were at the same time

And before that pane,l Beast told Wanda is she could give mutants powers back, she didn't went out of her way to restore them actually and she was told the X-men were after her and that's why she would give them more mutants and that was just in that series, later or she didn't show any remorse actually, save for ANXM maybe.