The Flash # 24 Spoiler & Discussion Thread

[K. Jones]

Flash is still a lot of fun and this issue was loaded with the kind of stuff I like, and great art.

The Barry and Hal team-up was still a lot of fun, and I liked Williamson's handle on Hal Jordan. I also liked his long game approach where Multiplex (still feeling his beatdown at the hands of Midnighter, natch) ends up in the hands of Black Hole. They're proving to be a rad concept, and bringing Multiplex into the fold is cool.

The big thing though was naturally Thawne. His characterization here; where because he has skipped and survived reboots and retcons and timeline shifts and so he's looking at the current status quo with the same skepticism as us fans, was really nice. He proves to be an effective villain for that meta-commentary, for his viciousness, and I like the notion that to try to get his timeline curiosity "grounded" he's actually dooming himself to repeat his past mistakes, like trying to drag Iris to the future and re-kill her is a way of setting things right somehow. Also, his dialogue to Iris felt like direct throwback to some of the weird timeline quirks that resulted from Final Crisis (Barry and Iris's return), Blackest Night (his own resurrection), and Flash Rebirth (His timeline alterations). If you're Flash's mortal enemy from the future, yeah, I can see how all these timeline shenanigans would really start pissing you off. STOP CHANGING MY PAST!

The other big thing for him, and it's kind of huge, is his interrogation of Wally West - as he voiced fan outrage by claiming that the New Wally is a direct result of timeline tampering and isn't even a real character. That ties in well too with his jealousy or hatred of Daniel West for stealing his gimmick, no doubt. But more than that, when he asked "What kind of Kid Flash are you?" he directly highlighted the word Impulsive and referred to Kid Flashing as "living in Flash's shadow", which felt to me like direct, overt references to Bart Allen (well, and Classic Wally as well, of course).

Thawne's position as a resurrected speedster from the future who is immune to some timeline Flashpointing effects means he's one of the characters most aware of all the meta nonsense that's been happening to continuity all around, which is a neat role to have, because he can drop some great hints, clues and exposition. Jay Garrick is out there ... can Bart be far behind?

Lastly ... well, I'm just still not sure how the heck he could get murdered by Doctor Manhattan two issues ago and still be running around. Very curious about the specifics to how that crazy stuff works! But it's obvious it all ties right in to Flashpoint, Button, Doomsday Clock, and probably Oz, too, if that's where Bart is locked.

[Rakzo]

This was easily one of the best things I've read this week. The conversation between Hal and Barry was so logical considering their backgrounds and their conclusion also made a lot of sense, Williamson really did his homework about their histories.

The best part here was Thawne though. Again, Williamson really knows how to portray his terrifying presence perfectly. The character hasn't been this menacing since the last time Johns used him (which makes sense since Williamson's run is really based on Johns').

[Atlanta96]

I can't believe they have the nerve to vilify detractors like this after treating OG Wally like sh*t. They have spent the last year sidelining and humiliating OG Wally while giving his replacement a solid push. And their response to fan outrage is likening us to one of the most evil villains in the DCU. I'm furious.

[JBatmanFan05]

It'd be nice if DC collects in The Button in a half trade 96-pager special reprint.

[Pohzee]

I can't believe they have the nerve to vilify detractors like this after treating OG Wally like sh*t. They have spent the last year sidelining and humiliating OG Wally while giving his replacement a solid push. And their response to fan outrage is likening us to one of the most evil villains in the DCU. I'm furious.

Actually, I thought that this specific metatalk about NuWally was pretty important. In both this story and the Lazarus Contract, the villain (Slade/Thawne) state that there is one too many Wally's. More curiously, both times specifically use the word impulse in bold. This issue also talked about being stuck in Flashes shadow while in Lazarus Contract it appeared as though there was something ominous trapped in Wally's shadow. I chalked this up to the artist's depiction of Wally's internal conflict about his father, but given that there have been two references to both impulse and shadows, I believe that it may be connected. Perhaps NuWally Impulse corrupted by the timeline. Perhaps they are just foreshadowing Bart's return, but regardless, the recurring nature of this commentary makes be believe that DC has plans to resolve the unaddressed issue of two Wallys(Wallies?) running around. I think that DC has plans for NuWally in the near future.

[SanityOrMadness]

...the recurring nature of this commentary makes be believe that DC has plans to resolve the unaddressed issue of two Wallys(Wallies?) running around. I think that DC has plans for NuWally in the near future.

Thing is, it's hard to see how. The simplest thing to do would be to give Jr. a new nickname, but the whole point of Jr existing - and now wearing this costume - is to tie into the TV show, where there "Wally West" is a black guy. And once you have the black guy running around, killing him to "replace" him with a white guy (OG Wally) is... culturally insensitive. (And isn't Movie Iris black too? If there's going to be a Movie Wally, that means *he'd* probably be black, cementing Jr's place more firmly still.)

Basically, after introducing Jr in place of OG Wally, and then reintroducing OG Wally *anyway* with a big splash as a separate character, they've left themselves with a Gordian Knot, with no satisfactory way out. (Hence why OG Wally is shuffled well out of the way of the Flash books, and now with the sort of "using his powers is killing him" only secondary & tertiary team-book-only characters get. They needed him as a character "untouched" by the N52 reboot, but they don't STILL need him...yet the nature of the reintroduction means they can't just get rid of him either.)

[Johnny]

Thing is, it's hard to see how. The simplest thing to do would be to give Jr. a new nickname, but the whole point of Jr existing - and now wearing this costume - is to tie into the TV show, where there "Wally West" is a black guy. And once you have the black guy running around, killing him to "replace" him with a white guy (OG Wally) is... culturally insensitive. (And isn't Movie Iris black too? If there's going to be a Movie Wally, that means *he'd* probably be black, cementing Jr's place more firmly still.]

Todd McFarlane did that with Spawn. He killed off Al Simmons and replaced him with Jim Downing, a white blonde character who was the new Spawn for a few years. I don't think the movies or TV make THAT much of a difference in the long run, because their audience is not the same as the niche comic audience. Comic fans don't have a problem with white Wally West because he's been around for so long as both a sidekick and a major superhero so potentially killing off Nu Wally and "replacing" him with the old Wally wouldn't matter. I don't find anything insensitive about that, it's just putting story first, which is what McFarlane did when he killed off Simmons.

[Pohzee]

Thing is, it's hard to see how. The simplest thing to do would be to give Jr. a new nickname, but the whole point of Jr existing - and now wearing this costume - is to tie into the TV show, where there "Wally West" is a black guy. And once you have the black guy running around, killing him to "replace" him with a white guy (OG Wally) is... culturally insensitive. (And isn't Movie Iris black too? If there's going to be a Movie Wally, that means *he'd* probably be black, cementing Jr's place more firmly still.)

Basically, after introducing Jr in place of OG Wally, and then reintroducing OG Wally *anyway* with a big splash as a separate character, they've left themselves with a Gordian Knot, with no satisfactory way out. (Hence why OG Wally is shuffled well out of the way of the Flash books, and now with the sort of "using his powers is killing him" only secondary & tertiary team-book-only characters get. They needed him as a character "untouched" by the N52 reboot, but they don't STILL need him...yet the nature of the reintroduction means they can't just get rid of him either.)

Again, I think that it is related somehow to Impulse given that it has been mentioned more than once across more than one title. I'm not sure how though.

[Atlanta96]

Actually, I thought that this specific metatalk about NuWally was pretty important. In both this story and the Lazarus Contract, the villain (Slade/Thawne) state that there is one too many Wally's. More curiously, both times specifically use the word impulse in bold. This issue also talked about being stuck in Flashes shadow while in Lazarus Contract it appeared as though there was something ominous trapped in Wally's shadow. I chalked this up to the artist's depiction of Wally's internal conflict about his father, but given that there have been two references to both impulse and shadows, I believe that it may be connected. Perhaps NuWally Impulse corrupted by the timeline. Perhaps they are just foreshadowing Bart's return, but regardless, the recurring nature of this commentary makes be believe that DC has plans to resolve the unaddressed issue of two Wallys(Wallies?) running around. I think that DC has plans for NuWally in the near future.

Or maybe they're just making a jab at readers who are fed up with their terrible handling of Wally West.

[KC]

In my opinion, this issue was great. I think this issue showed that Joshua Willaimson has a good grasp on Barry, Eobard and Barry's friendship with Hal.

[Lee]

Again, I think that it is related somehow to Impulse given that it has been mentioned more than once across more than one title. I'm not sure how though.

Thawne asked "What kind of Kid Flash are you?", then compared him to the previous two he knew pre-Flashpoint. The impulsive one was Bart, the one lost in Flash's shadow was the original Wally.

[Calvinr]

Another fun great issue, Williamson definitely nailing the characterisations, I haven't enjoyed a (Barry) flash run this much in soooo looong, I wonder when Iris finds out Barry is the flash (again) how it will affect their relationship going forward, there's a lot to be played with there.

[Pohzee]

Thawne asked "What kind of Kid Flash are you?", then compared him to the previous two he knew pre-Flashpoint. The impulsive one was Bart, the one lost in Flash's shadow was the original Wally.

Hm. I didn't think about it like that. Deathstroke didn't know the pre-Flashpoint Kid Flashes though. Did he ever meet Bart in the New 52? I still think that the fact that two such similar transactions occured so close together. (2 Wally Wests? Too many. So Impulsive.)

Or maybe they're just making a jab at readers who are fed up with their terrible handling of Wally West.

I think that that is highly, highly unlikely.

[BooCoo]

I thought the issue was pretty good but the art transition was jarring with the facial expressions not working at the end. Really getting tired of Thawne's casual psycho routine where he basically does anything he wants to anybody, and everyone is nerfed to make him look good or all powerful. Not sure what the deal is with Wally's speed force, though. Thawne's like a record stuck on skip, he never learns anything and just stays in his own mental time loop.

Barry mentioned having a watch, and moments in time. Hmm. Clockwork Crisis?

[Waterfall]

This issue was amazing. Thawne's antics were super fun. And well, I liked seeing nuWally getting his ass beaten.

Barry mentioned having a watch, and moments in time. Hmm. Clockwork Crisis?

It's the same watch Wally mentioned in DCU Rebirth one shot. That's in the hands of Manhattan now.