So why did the Superman fanbase take the 'OP' criticism to heart so badly?

[Kuwagaton]

This kind of 'solution' just shows me just how much the writers don't get Superman and his fans. Do you see anyone here discussing how best Clark can defeat Diana, or a GL? Apart from myself wanting revenge against the Batgod, Superman fans are worried about his characterization, his feats against evil. SuperWonder thread: We discussed ideas, scenarios, hopes for characterization.

The writers ARE his fans. Many of them have probably read more Superman than 90% of all comic collectors, and that's before factoring in the firsthand insight that they would get by working for DC. They like Superman enough to make a job out of it, and put their real names out there so that people can anonymously and freely ridicule their ideas and experience. How much they understand is not determined by whether or not we personally agree with them on a given subject.

But it's not as though they constantly have Superman against other heroes. Aside from the JL intro arc and a scuffle with Orion, it wasn't really a thing post flashpoint.

it's not us who are asking for Supes to beat this or that hero. But JLU and other kinds of scenario makes it seem that we are.

You've compared WW to Superman several times, mentioning that she even takes nukes better. Though you acknowledge that even immediately post crisis, nukes weren't harmful. That constant comparison is just met by the fact that while their powers typically make for an apple and orange scenario (since she's magic) in a direct way she's shown to not have any real advantage.

Superman is knocked for having these weaknesses, but on an ordinary basis he beats the characters who can access those weaknesses. That's why some consider him overpowered.

Small, unrelated gripe: Cap Atom was totally off in the JLU. He acted nothing like his comic counterpart and the use of his power was underwhelming. I feel like Superman got off easy. The cartoon itself was spectacular, but the individual characters not so much.

[dumbduck]

The writers ARE his fans. Many of them have probably read more Superman than 90% of all comic collectors, and that's before factoring in the firsthand insight that they would get by working for DC. They like Superman enough to make a job out of it, and put their real names out there so that people can anonymously and freely ridicule their ideas and experience. How much they understand is not determined by whether or not we personally agree with them on a given subject.

Yes, of course.

But other anomynous fans come to this forum, some of them are honest in their dislike of Superman, some aren't. They use this or that writer's work as an example of why Superman should be changed to their own wishes. They cite this or that writer's politics, sexism, bias, etc, to give weight to their example. I have the right to give back examples with that or this writer's bias, sexism, politics, etc. It's anonymous vs anonymous.

But I know I have to polish my delivery of these kinds of arguments. Thanks for reminding me to be more respectful of the professionals of this art.

You've compared WW to Superman several times, mentioning that she even takes nukes better. Though you acknowledge that even immediately post crisis, nukes weren't harmful. That constant comparison is just met by the fact that while their powers typically make for an apple and orange scenario (since she's magic) in a direct way she's shown to not have any real advantage.

That's because fans of other characters come here in this forum to argue that Superman should be further limited. The Post-crisis powerdown was limiting enough. Many characters around Superman have re-evolved to the point that they are as powerful, if not more, than they were pre-crisis, without the layer of silver-age 'silliness'. IMO, Supes shouldn't be powered-down, he should be re-evolved.

Small, unrelated gripe: Cap Atom was totally off in the JLU. He acted nothing like his comic counterpart and the use of his power was underwhelming. I feel like Superman got off easy. The cartoon itself was spectacular, but the individual characters not so much.

I don't know enough about him to opine. I know that some of his fans say that the Red-sun energy should have meant an instant/easy victory. If that had happened then the discontent would have been in our court. It's a no win situation. IMO, a good example of why K and RS weaknesses should be done with. Let them fight. Don't humiliate Superman. Don't give space to these 'Superman should keel over instantly' kinds of arguments. Everyone is happy.

As I've often said I have a problem with practically all the Marvel/DC powerhouses being OTT. And Superman is by no means most extreme example.

But in Superman's case I do have problems with a couple of his weaknesses: magic and mind control.

On mind control, you'd have to be near moronic not to realise that a mind controlled Superman is profoundly dangerous.

Once it happened, Superman would either find a foolproof defence or give up his powers...anything else would be completely irresponsible. Going down defence route...he's got several natural abilities that should give that. (E.g Ability to think at super speed in Kryptonian.)

As he's never killed anybody under mind control, easy to do away with this one...argue that his natural defences always prevented full control, and he's now learnt how to ramp up those natural defences.

Magic? Just never bought idea that he would be especially vulnerable to magic because Kryptonians never come across it.

Way most magic works requires magician to have empathy with object or person being spelled...Superman ought to have high natural resistance because he's alien. Harder to get to my preferred position on this...but imagine it could be done.

Is your mom's name Martha too? Are we instant bros?

You know, in my reading experiences, the Kryptonite guys are very rarely portrayed as villains who actually pose any kind of threat at all to Superman. They're usually more annoyances.

Superman is knocked for having these weaknesses, but on an ordinary basis he beats the characters who can access those weaknesses. That's why some consider him overpowered.

It's not only those guys. It's the dumbness of always falling for the same traps. It's seeing Supes taken out at the start of a story and not contributing to the problem solving, rallying, etc. And the main problem for me, as always, is Batman. 'But Batman is a hero'. Yeah. Superman is one as well.