Am I the Only Fan of the Original Expanded Universe

[WebLurker]

This is on another level from something contradicting continuity. 90% of continuity got flushed down the toilet. About 35 years worth.

Near or total reboots of franchises are extremely common. Transformers and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles practically run on it. I'm not really sure what makes Star Wars so different (esp. given that, as the Special Editions and Clone Wars cartoons showed, the idea that the tie-in materials were fully canon was really only honored in the breach.)

A good 90% of it was as much in continuity then as it is now though: not.

The EU was tolerated as long as it didn't deal with stuff Lucas was interested in. Once Lucas became interested in something the EU had done, like say Mandalorians, then huge parts of the EU were gone, just like that.
If Lucas would have been interested in doing an Episode VII, the entire EU Skywalker soap opera from the Thrawn trilogy on would have been gone.
They had these ridiculous levels of canonicity back then, and the only level that really counted for anything was G-Canon, as in just the movies, basically.

Now there is one, unified canon (with some exceptions like the Bioware stuff), and the Lucasfilm Storygroup seem dedicated to bringing back as much characters and concepts from the old EU back as possible.

That is a very good point. Even if LucasFilm hadn't rebooted, huge chunks of the EU/Legends were going to go away anyways. It would basically be a choice between a clean reboot or a messy one with some stuff staying in canon, other not, and a lot of other things that would be a mix of both.

At the end of the day, the Legends continuity would not have survived a continuation of the movie series.

[Carabas]

I have seen a Juggernaut tank from the old Westend Games roleplaying game in a real Star Wars movie.

Stuff like this old toy I used to own is now real Star Wars canon.


I think the EU (or just plain the U now, I guess) is in very good hands.

[Tugger]

I got into Star Wars after seeing The Empire Strikes Back when I was 10, so the original Marvel series and the Archie Goodwin / Al Williamson comic strip was a big part of my enjoyment.

This continued with the post-Jedi Dark Horse comics and Del Rey novels, until the Yuuzhan Vong appeared, when I rapidly lost interest.

I liked the idea of the original Legacy comic series but I never got into it.

Personally, I don't care myself that most of the EU continuity has been junked but I feel for those people who invested time and more importantly money in it. A real kick in the teeth.

Still, as others have said, this happens regularly.

As for the Disney stuff, I've seen The Force Awakens twice. It's ok, as entertainment goes but it was too much of a pastiche of the original trilogy for me. I'm not particularly excited about The Last Jedi and Ep IX will never be what it should have been with the sad passing of Carrie.

I'm not reading the comics or books.

[ChrisIII]

Near or total reboots of franchises are extremely common.

I wonder if there's a faction of Bond fans out there who got upset when Casino Royale (apart from Judi Dench's M) largely started the series from scratch. Although the continuity was a bit loose, it was still kind of there (references to Bond's wife and all that). It was getting a bit weird that Pierce Brosnan's forty-something Bond was the same one as Connery's in Dr.No-who would techically be in his 70's.




As for the Juggernaught in ROTS (and later in Rogue One), the RPG/novel/comics Juggernaught was taken from old ESB concept artwork, so the ROTS version could simply be based on that concept and not really lifted from the EU (Although of course the EU linked up the two, although in merchandise it was called "Turbo Tank", perhaps due to avoid confusion with the Marvel comics character).

[WebLurker]

I wonder if there's a faction of Bond fans out there who got upset when Casino Royale (apart from Judi Dench's M) largely started the series from scratch. Although the continuity was a bit loose, it was still kind of there (references to Bond's wife and all that). It was getting a bit weird that Pierce Brosnan's forty-something Bond was the same one as Connery's in Dr.No-who would techically be in his 70's.

I don't know anything about James Bond, so I couldn't say. I suppose the age thing could be chalked up to a floating timeline, a la Marvel and DC characters.

On thinking it over, there could be a few factors in why the Star Wars reboot has generated more pushback from certain sections of the fanbase than others. For starters, unlike other franchises, the material was mostly treated as being in a single timeline or at least written to read as such. The franchise never really dealt with alternate continuities or multiple versions co-existing that much. Also, continuity between installments was relatively tight for the most part (early on, not so much in the last few years of Legends' existence). So, a reboot wasn't exactly following tradition.

Secondly, when stuff like TMNT gets rebooted, it's usually a total one and it doesn't really render the previous version non-canon onto itself. It's not that much different than a movie being remade. With Star Wars, the method of the reboot indicated that the Legends material was non-canon in any form. Instead of just making a new Star Wars, it was described as the old canon being revised, with everything but the movies and TCW being scrapped. This maybe splitting hairs (for example, why shouldn't Legends be seen as canonical onto itself? it's not that different from comparing TMNT 2012 to it's 2k3 predecessor, or the Power Rangers movie to the Mighty Morphin TV show), but I think the way its presented does affect how people process it. If they had used the parallel universe route a la Star Trek, Legends would still feel "real," but the route they took makes it feel not "real." I suspect it also gives the fans the (incorrect) impression that the Powers That Be do not care and see the older stuff as garbage.

Thirdly, the Legends tie-ins were marketed as fully canonical. While, in retrospect, I feel that this was only honored in the breach and it was more of a dual canon (the movies being canon, but also taking place in the tie-in's version of the Star Wars world), that was how we tie-in readers saw it at the time and not everyone adjusts that well. (For what it's worth, LucasFilm seems to be following the dual canon model now; the Legends canon is done, while they're adding to the movie canon with the new films and tie-ins.)

Finally, many people simply wanted the Legends line to carry on with new material, regardless as to how the "C" word applied to it. Fair enough. As a Spider-Man fan, I'm a card-carrying "Undo 'One More Day'" person, so I can relate, even if I think that it'll never happen with Star Wars

I wonder if the Star Wars tie-ins had never been marketed as canon if we would have this issue today? I mean Star Trek operated under the tie-ins are never canon rule and for the most part that hasn't affected fans' enjoyment of older stuff that no longer lines up with the TV shows and movies (e.g. the Final Reflection novel). While the problem that some readers want more Star Wars books that built off of the older materials would still exist regardless, a lot of the ill-will seems to go back to the idea that it was once "canon" but was downgraded in favor of replacements.

[ChrisIII]

I think Lucas personally considered the EU as a seperate thing-but others in the company didn't as much. Lucas was more personally involved in the Clone Wars series, where several aspects of continuity started to be drastically different from the EU stuff (Such as the Mandalorians).

It's also been reported that in the early stages of the sequel trilogy Lucas considered directing them himself, and provided story outlines to Disney. While the exact content of these is unknown, I seriously doubt it would've featured the adventures of Jaina Solo and co. So Lucas might've gotten rid of the old EU as well.

I remember for a long time the old Marvel series and the early YA stuff was considered non-canon for a while too, but elements from that started to creep in to the current EU (Most notably Lumiya, Zeltrons, the Tagge family and the Tarkin) so it was pretty much re-opened for a while.

[WebLurker]

I think Lucas personally considered the EU as a seperate thing-but others in the company didn't as much. Lucas was more personally involved in the Clone Wars series, where several aspects of continuity started to be drastically different from the EU stuff (Such as the Mandalorians).

That seems to be the most consistent model, although Lucas did sign off on a few specific EU projects and seemed generally happy that other people were playing in his sandbox, quotes of which I have seen twisted into "EU was completely canon" by some parts of the fanbase.

It's also been reported that in the early stages of the sequel trilogy Lucas considered directing them himself, and provided story outlines to Disney. While the exact content of these is unknown, I seriously doubt it would've featured the adventures of Jaina Solo and co. So Lucas might've gotten rid of the old EU as well.

I think it's safe to say that the EU was always going to go away if and when more movies were made.

I remember for a long time the old Marvel series and the early YA stuff was considered non-canon for a while too, but elements from that started to creep in to the current EU (Most notably Lumiya, Zeltrons, the Tagge family and the Tarkin) so it was pretty much re-opened for a while.

Yeah, as I understand it, as things went along, the older stuff was eventually "re-canonized" in full (at least inasmuch as the EU could be considered "canon"). They were officially in their own bracket of "probably canon but not hard and fast unless corroborated by higher-ranking sources (there are some inconsistencies in the older works and the patch jobs and retcons got really convoluted after awhile).

You can read about Star Wars continuity here. This YouTuber also does a pretty good job breaking things down:

[WebLurker]

Videos on Star Wars canon continued:

[ChrisIII]

This article contains some of the statements Lucas has put about the EU.

http://furiousfanboys.com/2016/06/07...-star-wars-eu/

[WebLurker]

This article contains some of the statements Lucas has put about the EU.

http://furiousfanboys.com/2016/06/07...-star-wars-eu/

Interesting find.

Fans seem to love quotes in discussions like this. Go to some of the pro-Legends sites, and they'll have a whole page of quotes to "prove" their points about the Legends reboot (a couple of examples here and here). I kinda frankly find it interesting trivia, but a bit of a waste of time for a serious argument. First of all, the comments often seemed cherry-picked, taken out of context, and in many cases seem to be trying to argue against stuff that can be disproven with an actual examination. (For example, there will be the usual "it's a lie that Legends was full of contradictions." Look, I was there, I was reading that stuff. There are a lot of contradictions.)

Secondly, whether it was ever really canon is kind of moot. It's not canon in any way now, so it makes no difference what it was prior.

[Vegan Daddy]

I enjoyed the original EU. Kir Kanos was my favorite.

[Tugger]

I enjoyed the original EU. Kir Kanos was my favorite.

Really enjoyed Crimson Empire. Must check if there's a digital trade.

[OutlawGunStar]

My problem isn't so much that its rebooted,as much as the insistence that the EU never existed(from Disney and a good piece of the fandom). For example,the TMNT get a new version fairly often,but nobody ever came up and said: You know,Mirage/Fred Wolf/4Kids turtles never existed,its no longer canon.
So why Disney and Marvel couldn't adopt a same approach,and allow different universes to exist at the same time,is really beyond me.

[Carabas]

My problem isn't so much that its rebooted,as much as the insistence that the EU never existed(from Disney and a good piece of the fandom). For example,the TMNT get a new version fairly often,but nobody ever came up and said: You know,Mirage/Fred Wolf/4Kids turtles never existed,its no longer canon.
So why Disney and Marvel couldn't adopt a same approach,and allow different universes to exist at the same time,is really beyond me.

I don't recall this actually happening.

[OutlawGunStar]

You obviously missed a lot.