Barbara Gordon's future in the DC Universe (aka: is it time for a change?)

[Karmasaywhat]

Barbara Gordon's Batgirl series is now selling in the low 20,000s. While those numbers aren't terrible, they're significantly lower than the stable 30k she used to pull from 2011 to a year or two ago. Clearly, something has changed. Heroes like Nightwing and Red Hood have maintained and even grown their numbers a bit, but Batgirl is slowly slipping.

I think it's clear that even though the Burnside reinvention gave her a nice, temporary bump in popularity, it hasn't caught on. I enjoy the series, but as a whole it feels very inconsequential and has kind of relegated Barbara to the fringes of the DC universe, where once she used to be in the center. This prolonged lack of prominence seems to have diminished her popularity as well. I haven't seen much excitement for the character in a while, and in some forums (like this one), it seems that she's not especially liked anymore.


Should DC continue this Burnside persona? Or is it time for a change? And what can they do to reinvigorate her character, with all the new Batkids running around? If she's outgrown Batgirl, and Oracle doesn't work in the current continuity anymore (what with everyone being a master hacker and Cyborg being a living computer), what role is there for her?

[millernumber1]

Barbara Gordon's Batgirl series is now selling in the low 20,000s. While those numbers aren't terrible, they're significantly lower than the stable 30k she used to pull from 2011 to a year or two ago. Clearly, something has changed. Heroes like Nightwing and Red Hood have maintained and even grown their numbers a bit, but Batgirl is slowly slipping.

I think it's clear that even though the Burnside reinvention gave her a nice, temporary bump in popularity, it hasn't caught on. I enjoy the series, but as a whole it feels very inconsequential and has kind of relegated Barbara to the fringes of the DC universe, where once she used to be in the center. This prolonged lack of prominence seems to have diminished her popularity as well. I haven't seen much excitement for the character in a while, and in some forums (like this one), it seems that she's not especially liked anymore.


Should DC continue this Burnside persona? Or is it time for a change? And what can they do to reinvigorate her character, with all the new Batkids running around? If she's outgrown Batgirl, and Oracle doesn't work in the current continuity anymore (what with everyone being a master hacker and Cyborg being a living computer), what role is there for her?

I don't claim to be an expert on Babsgirl. I believe I've read every one of her issues, but I haven't really loved any of them (except maybe #51 when Steph was stealing her spot, or the Future's End issue when Steph and Cass were stealing her spot...are you getting a theme? ). I think you're absolutely right that even during the Simone run, Batgirl was too isolated from the rest of the Batfamily - only heightened by first Simone's final issue where she asked literally everyone who is not in the Batfamily to help her, then Burnside creating an entirely new place so she doesn't physically interact with them anymore. Larson and the Bensons have both made moves towards re-integration - the Bensons moreso, since they're already a team book - but neither of the books is really selling super well (I desperately hope Birds of Prey survives to a full two years, but I'm currently predicting a cancellation around issue 18, the one and a half year mark unless there's a major surge somehow).

I think that what DC would want to do is launch a REAL Super Hero Girls Batgirl series with a name writer and artist, who is given a certain amount of license to go outside of the cartoon/house style (sort of like what Rick Burchett would do for the Batman: The Brave and the Bold comics), with its own continuity and stakes - for slightly older kids, maybe 12-14, instead of the 8-10 it currently seems to be aimed for. But that's an awkward age bracket to leap, and I don't think they can figure out a way.

What I want, so much? LEAGUE OF BATGIRLS! Steph, Cass, and Babs, all together, all winning, all the time!

[Frontier]

I honestly can't see her stop being Batgirl at this point, especially with the movie coming up.

But I personally think it's time for DC to move on from the Burnside version Batgirl, at least as far as main continuity is concerned, and go for a feel more in-line with the core Batfamily books, which might lend to a bigger role in the family again as well. But without the overbearing grittiness or darkness that permeated Simone's run.

I also think it would be good to give Steph and Cass their own books, or at least a vehicle to more consistently spotlight and showcase them compared to 'Tec, so there might be less in-fighting among the fans of the other Batgirls upset their favorite is getting shafted compared to Barbara as Batgirl.

[Assam]

I also think it would be good to give Steph and Cass their own books, or at least a vehicle to more consistently spotlight and showcase them compared to 'Tec, so there might be less in-fighting among the fans of the other Batgirls upset their favorite is getting shafted compared to Barbara as Batgirl.

Also so you as a Mod wouldn't have to listen to us complain and argue every other week...day...minute

[Godlike13]

Her anniversary is coming up so hopefully they have something in store for her. If nothing else its time for them to have her be less isolated.

[oasis1313]

It's those yellow Doc Martins that are causing all the problems. Bring back the stiletto boots.

[twiztor]

big Babs Batgirl fan here.

have the entire Simone New 52 run (although i didn't think it was that amazing. actually dropped it at one point, but went back and picked up all the issues). Have a good chunk of the pre-Flashpoint Birds of Prey title. Dropped the book completely with the Burnside revamp. i have no interest in 'hipster Batgirl'. a return to the more iconic costume and characterization would most likely bring me back into the fold.

[Rogue Star]

I honestly can't see her stop being Batgirl at this point, especially with the movie coming up.

But I personally think it's time for DC to move on from the Burnside version Batgirl, at least as far as main continuity is concerned, and go for a feel more in-line with the core Batfamily books, which might lend to a bigger role in the family again as well. But without the overbearing grittiness or darkness that permeated Simone's run.

I also think it would be good to give Steph and Cass their own books, or at least a vehicle to more consistently spotlight and showcase them compared to 'Tec, so there might be less in-fighting among the fans of the other Batgirls upset their favorite is getting shafted compared to Barbara as Batgirl.

Yup yup yup yup yup, so much yup!

[bat_girl_cc]

WOW!...how the mighty have fallen!...
Just a few years ago, Cass and Steph were MIA and no Babs fan would care about it, in fact every time there was a Cass and/or Steph fan rant anywhere, some Babs fans would even go as far as to poke fun at them...and now, look at them...they want a book with Cass and Steph on it with Babs, because Babs currently can't even sustain 1 book for more than 10 issues selling above 20K...i say, either forget about the Burnised angle altogether and relaunch Batgirl solo again or bring Oracle back...because making a book with current Babs Batgirl and bringging in Cass and Steph for that book with that writting and art for kids and little girls, would only ruin Cass and Steph as well...no, Cass and Steph are good on Detective Comics, with a writter that loves them, and the sales for the book are very high and have been since the start of Rebirth, so no need to change what doesn't need fixing.

[bat_girl_cc]

I hope for the best for Babs, but not at the expense of Cass and Steph, no, sorry...besides, the best for Babs its Oracle, and we all know that isn't happening...sadly.

[Badou]

WOW!...how the mighty have fallen!...
Just a few years ago, Cass and Steph were MIA and no Babs fan would care about it, in fact every time there was a Cass and/or Steph fan rant anywhere, some Babs fans would even go as far as to poke fun at them...and now, look at them...they want a book with Cass and Steph on it with Babs, because Babs currently can't even sustain 1 book for more than 10 issues selling above 20K...i say, either forget about the Burnised angle altogether and relaunch Batgirl solo again or bring Oracle back...because making a book with current Babs Batgirl and bringging in Cass and Steph for that book with that writting and art for kids and little girls, would only ruin Cass and Steph as well...no, Cass and Steph are good on Detective Comics, with a writter that loves them, and the sales for the book are very high and have been since the start of Rebirth, so no need to change what doesn't need fixing.

I'm pretty sure the people wanting Steph and Cass in the book are the same ones that were complaining that they weren't being used and bitch about Babs being Batgirl again even though it has been 6 years already.

[bat_girl_cc]

I'm pretty sure the people wanting Steph and Cass in the book are the same ones that were complaining that they weren't being used and bitch about Babs being Batgirl again even though it has been 6 years already.

Hum...not sure, if thats the only reason...
Anyway, Babs main problem now, is that even if DC wantted to forget about the Burnside hipster Babs (they won't because Babs is currently filling her own niche), Batwoman is already the one mature and serious bat-female on the costume...i mean, ever since the "Batwoman concept" was reintroduced to the audience not long ago, there has been a debate of " why having a Batgirl and Batwoman at the same time basically doing the same thing and basically having the same roles in Gotham and on the bat-family? " well, for one Babs and Kate are obviously different characters, but when Babs is being written seriously like Simone did in the New 52 the roles that they play in Gotham are not that different...in a way they are both female counter-parts of Batman, both are good at everything crime-fighting related, while not being very good or close to being the best at any area (well, Babs is at tech and overall smarts, but still) them both existing at the same time and being Batgirl and Batwoman at the same time, for some people is kinda of needless...Well, the question of why and how we have them both at the same time? was answered recently when Babs started behaving like a Bat-girl as in being written like 12-year old girl and Batwoman kept behaving like a Bat-woman...obviously, this didn't do any favours to Babs (as it was expected) and to have them both being written as serious young adult women with one going by Batgirl and the other one going by Batwoman, basically with both filling the same nich, might not be what DC has in mind...anyway, i still belive that Oracle is the only role on which Babs is truly unique and special and not only usefull but important as well, and it could help Babs fanbase grow alot again, but sadly DC doesn't seem to think that way...
Some people may say, " but Cass was Batgirl at the time, and she was all serious and badass..." yes, but there was no Batwoman at the time...also one of the artist's of Cassandra's solo Batgirl run, said that the series were cancelled because DC Editorial decided to try Batwoman and they didn't wantted competition...in other words, DC didn't wantted 2 characters basically filling the same nich...that was also probaly the reason why Babs started behaving more like a "little girl" and also DC is determined to keep Babs as Batgirl...at this point honestly, DC should have Babs as being Oracle, Steph as being Batgirl with a writter that understands the character, Cass should stay as Orphan even tho i don't like the name, and Kate as Batwoman, the problem would be solved...
I also like Kate, and i also think that her as Batwoman is a good adittion to the bat-family, this it's only a problem, becuase DC just can't let go of having Babs as Batgirl.

[Assam]

Ways I'd fix Barbara Gordon while still keeping her Batgirl:

- Age her up to late 20's. (I'd personally want even older, but whatever)

- Have her act like the mature adult we know and love.

- Give her the skills and abilities she had as Oracle.

- Re-establish more of her ties to the DCU, as well as within the BatFamily. Ex. Ted Kord and the Justice League for the DCU, and Cass, Steph, and JPV for the Batfamily.

and most importantly for me:

- WIPE THE KILLING JOKE FROM CANON.

While there are several reasons I have not bought a single Batgirl comic since the Nu52 started, chief among them is that I found the choice to have Babs become Batgirl again disgusting. Not because of the inherent idea though. If she'd just been starting out as Batgirl, or had had the role for a few years, fine. I wouldn't like it, but fine. The decision to have the events of Killing Joke still in play though, and having her 'recover' from the incident by becoming Batgirl, even though she'd already 'recovered' and become stronger while Oracle was strikingly ablest, and not something I could forgive.

I know DC won't do this last one, or most of these probably, but it's what it would take for me at least to vote with my wallet in favor of Babsgirl.

[KoriandrJean]

Ways I'd fix Barbara Gordon while still keeping her Batgirl:

- Age her up to late 20's. (I'd personally want even older, but whatever)

- Have her act like the mature adult we know and love.

- Give her the skills and abilities she had as Oracle.

- Re-establish more of her ties to the DCU, as well as within the BatFamily. Ex. Ted Kord and the Justice League for the DCU, and Cass, Steph, and JPV for the Batfamily.

and most importantly for me:

- WIPE THE KILLING JOKE FROM CANON.

While there are several reasons I have not bought a single Batgirl comic since the Nu52 started, chief among them is that I found the choice to have Babs become Batgirl again disgusting. Not because of the inherent idea though. If she'd just been starting out as Batgirl, or had had the role for a few years, fine. I wouldn't like it, but fine. The decision to have the events of Killing Joke still in play though, and having her 'recover' from the incident by becoming Batgirl, even though she'd already 'recovered' and become stronger while Oracle was strikingly ablest, and not something I could forgive.

I know DC won't do this last one, or most of these probably, but it's what it would take for me at least to vote with my wallet in favor of Babsgirl.

WORD. (10 char)

[kcekada]

Barbara Gordon's Batgirl series is now selling in the low 20,000s. While those numbers aren't terrible, they're significantly lower than the stable 30k she used to pull from 2011 to a year or two ago. Clearly, something has changed. Heroes like Nightwing and Red Hood have maintained and even grown their numbers a bit, but Batgirl is slowly slipping.

I think it's clear that even though the Burnside reinvention gave her a nice, temporary bump in popularity, it hasn't caught on. I enjoy the series, but as a whole it feels very inconsequential and has kind of relegated Barbara to the fringes of the DC universe, where once she used to be in the center. This prolonged lack of prominence seems to have diminished her popularity as well. I haven't seen much excitement for the character in a while, and in some forums (like this one), it seems that she's not especially liked anymore.


Should DC continue this Burnside persona? Or is it time for a change? And what can they do to reinvigorate her character, with all the new Batkids running around? If she's outgrown Batgirl, and Oracle doesn't work in the current continuity anymore (what with everyone being a master hacker and Cyborg being a living computer), what role is there for her?

I agree that the Burnside reinvention marginalized her -- especially in comparison to how she was viewed when new 52 debuted. I'd prefer her to be more of a Batwoman type -- as I feel that Batwoman really isn't working as a character -- even though I'm buying Batwoman -- and not buying Batgirl.