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  1. #31
    Incredible Member RedQueen's Avatar
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    I'm very happy for the team for getting nominated for an Eisner Award but it was nominated in Best Publication for Teens (ages 13-17). I have not been in that age bracket for 5 years. Even when I was 17 year old girl I was reading Hellblazer and had a crush on Constantine so people will read what is ever out there, but things like Squirrel girl and Gotham Academy can be a part of the trend for the younger ages. they can make it work for other characters, but this is Barbara Gordon.

    Now the whole dating element is getting annoying. Now this might sound super weird but I hate the desexualisation of her, and I'm not talking about T&A in the art (I support the lack of unnecessary boobage and heels aspect in her costume) nor a sex life per se, but her whole dating life is PG, and I don't need R of course or in any sense, but I'm talking about how all her relationships are cutsie and only have kisses, her dating life and mishaps are something you would see on the Disney Channel if that makes sense and it feels episodic and self contained so there's no progression in the future. Nightwing and Shawn, Dinah and Oliver, all Barbara contemporaries are afforded a level of a mature approach (I'm talking given some depth) to relationships. You can't get attached to Barbara's love interest because they don't last or they're hyper boring. It's comical and reads like a Lizzie Macguire level sort of romance. And because the dating element is so prominent in her title, it's just very noticeable for me. And Barbara is a grown as$ woman, I mean at 21 I was not acting like I was 14 in my approach to dating. Like I can handle a lot but not a half-arsed approached to a dating life in comic and especially for Barbara, who's known for trust issues and doesn't put up with BS and then I look at her last 2 love interests Kai and Ethan and then I have to question how they're approaching Barbara's mindset.

    I like Larsen as a writer, and if this weren't Babs, I wouldn't have a problem.
    Last edited by RedQueen; 06-20-2017 at 12:12 PM.

  2. #32
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBatmanFan05 View Post
    Yea, I want a Bronze Age rebirth for Babs. The Bronze Age (Batgirl's stories are getting their own Omnibus) had the perfect mix of light & dark, fun & serious.
    But I'm guessing the problem with that is that while those of us who first discovered a slightly older / more mature Barbara Gordon as Batgirl during her pre-The Killing Joke run, how many current readers/buyers probably first discovered her on the animated Batman series? Wasn't that version younger and still in college (closer in age to Dick)? Is it that type of reader DC is really trying to cater to with the de-aged Barbara Gordon?

  3. #33
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedQueen View Post
    I'm very happy for the team for getting nominated for an Eisner Award but it was nominated in Best Publication for Teens (ages 13-17). I have not been in that age bracket for 5 years.
    I haven't been in that age bracket since the 1970s.

    And on a side note, is it a bad thing for DC to offer a main DC universe title that's teen-friendly?

  4. #34
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    But I'm guessing the problem with that is that while those of us who first discovered a slightly older / more mature Barbara Gordon as Batgirl during her pre-The Killing Joke run, how many current readers/buyers probably first discovered her on the animated Batman series? Wasn't that version younger and still in college (closer in age to Dick)? Is it that type of reader DC is really trying to cater to with the de-aged Barbara Gordon?
    Eh, I don't know. Bronze Age Babs was in long in college with like same aged Dick and all. So BTAS Babs often struck me as pretty faithful to Bronze Age Babs over time. I got enough Bronze Age from Dixon's amazing Batgirl Yea One as well.

    I can't really say what pushed DC to such a different Babs. Probably top selling books or genres out there that I'm not reading made DC think: Hey, what if we went in this direction.

    Babs is just another character that I hope DC realizes they didn't have to "throw out the baby with the bathwater" with. Why does Dick Grayson stay so consistent (classic) enough (overall) and not Babs?
    Last edited by JBatmanFan05; 06-20-2017 at 12:35 PM.
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  5. #35
    D*mned Prince of Gotham JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBatmanFan05 View Post
    Yea, I want a Bronze Age rebirth for Babs. The Bronze Age (Batgirl's stories are getting their own Omnibus) had the perfect mix of light & dark, fun & serious.
    Yeah, that's exactly what I'm looking for so far as the stories are concerned. Also, now that I know about it, I'm going to have to get that Omnibus. Thanks for the heads up.
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  6. #36
    Mighty Member Lady Nightwing's Avatar
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    I think the easiest but possibly temporary fix to Babs sales slump is to reintegrate her into the Batfamily. She used to be indispensable and now she's an afterthought. Appearing in a prominent role in a Batman comic would give Batgirl sales a kick in the arse. In the long term I think they need a more serious and slightly darker tone for the series. I mean its aimed at 13-17 year olds but sinister themes appeal to them. My niece (17) loved Babs costume and the art style of Burnside but ultimately found the stories dull. She loved Plutona and Locke and Key though.

  7. #37
    Incredible Member RedQueen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    I haven't been in that age bracket since the 1970s.

    And on a side note, is it a bad thing for DC to offer a main DC universe title that's teen-friendly?
    No definitely not. I found Gail Simone's run friendly. I was a teen when New 52 came out and I found everything alright. But the current Batgirl is definitely written for a certain bracket. To me some mainstream titles should be like the movie Shrek, the young ones will enjoy it but the adults can read between the lines (bad analogy but that's the best way I can put it). But Barbara is played as...not herself I guess. If this was anyone else I'd probably tell them to go for it. It's just a stark contrast to the Barbara pre revamp. I have a feeling that DC feels like they're portraying Barbara as a complimentary version of her past self in her current schtick, when they're actually adjusting and changing Barbara as a character and narrative to fit the burnside status quo.

    Things like the Raven title, Gotham Academy, Squirrel Girl etc all fit into the younger category. I wish there were more options though. But to me with Barbara and her history, she shouldn't be approached like that from a narrative standpoint.

  8. #38
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Nightwing View Post
    I think the easiest but possibly temporary fix to Babs sales slump is to reintegrate her into the Batfamily. She used to be indispensable and now she's an afterthought. Appearing in a prominent role in a Batman comic would give Batgirl sales a kick in the arse.
    Ya, this probably should happen. We all love Batwoman but i think its time they restablish the actual pillars of the Batfamily.

  9. #39
    Astonishing Member The_Greatest_Username's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    If the question is, does the Burnside concept need to be dropped, the answer is a resounding yes. Its clear now it was a flash in the pan, short term appeal that's long gone now.

    If the question is, does she need to go back to being Oracle, the answer is an equally resounding no.
    This is the most accurate statement I've ever seen on the internet about Barbara Gordon.

  10. #40
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    The problem with placing her back into the family is that they would probably just use current her who isn't really a pillar or it's in a way that I hate. Like Dick/ Babs. She's better written in his book but so annoying because of the character she's become. I don't want the current versions near each other because D.C. Has cultivated their audiences and personalities in separate sections spheres. But the question is what can be done? She's not going back as Oracle and does mature Batgirl have pull?

  11. #41
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    So, for all the people who assume that Barbara Gordon can't be Oracle anymore, I have a serious question:

    Is there a place for a Barbara Gordon who has lost the use of her legs as a hero, then?
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  12. #42
    Astonishing Member The Kid's Avatar
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    They need to drop the hipster millennial angle they've been doing

  13. #43
    Incredible Member RedQueen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Nightwing View Post
    I think the easiest but possibly temporary fix to Babs sales slump is to reintegrate her into the Batfamily. She used to be indispensable and now she's an afterthought. Appearing in a prominent role in a Batman comic would give Batgirl sales a kick in the arse. In the long term I think they need a more serious and slightly darker tone for the series. I mean its aimed at 13-17 year olds but sinister themes appeal to them. My niece (17) loved Babs costume and the art style of Burnside but ultimately found the stories dull. She loved Plutona and Locke and Key though.
    Yeah pretty much this. Batgirl is lacking in the influential department due to how DC plays and isolates the character atm. She was there when Dick was Robin, and her, Bruce and Dick is what coined the term batfamily back in the day. Maybe Whedon's interpretation will handle more mature and darker themes and the comic will follow suit, but I'm hoping it happens before then. I'm a bit over waiting for the title to get it's $h*t together so to speak.

  14. #44
    Astonishing Member The_Greatest_Username's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    So, for all the people who assume that Barbara Gordon can't be Oracle anymore, I have a serious question:

    Is there a place for a Barbara Gordon who has lost the use of her legs as a hero, then?
    I can't see them using a paralyzed Barbara again unless it's as Oracle. I guess they could give her some kind of mech-suit but that might send a bad message. Isn't there an Elseworld's story where she gets a Lantern ring. That could be interesting if the Lanterns weren't cluttered already.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBatmanFan05 View Post
    Eh, I don't know. Bronze Age Babs was in long in college with like same aged Dick and all. So BTAS Babs often struck me as pretty faithful to Bronze Age Babs over time. I got enough Bronze Age from Dixon's amazing Batgirl Yea One as well.
    Bronze Age Babs, was roughly 7 years older than Dick, had allready a PhD and was iirc the head libarian of the Gotham Libary when she became Batgirl, and became a Congress Woman when Dick got into collage.

    I like BTAS but it is not really acurate to the Bronze Age comics. But BTAS Batgirl was imo still better than Burnside.

    Btw. Frankie is imo a fun character but why does Barbara need an "Oracle", she used to be the best hacker in the DC-Universe and now she comes imo off as way less tech savy than charcers like Tim, Luke, Steph and Harper.

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