Barbara Gordon's future in the DC Universe (aka: is it time for a change?)

[OBrianTallent]

That's the LAST thing she needs.

Personally, I feel Batman needs to be stripped down some. He's got his brains, his experience, his physical training . . . does he really need multiple Bat-caves around the world and even off-planet?!? Does he need his own private section in the Fortress of Solitude?!?
Batman is (supposedly) an incredible detective and a protector of Gotham City. What the fudge does he need with his own rocket?!? A budget for toys (that are quickly destroyed anyway) that could instead feed how many starving third-world countries?!?
Please, keep Barbara simpler than that. Let her protect her own turf and also have a private life.
She doesn't have to become Bat-Goddess!

That's a major leap and not even close to what I meant. I was talking about things like grappling guns, computers and tech for her helmet (which originally in the golden age stories, she created on her own based from her intellect.) There are tons of items that can be created to help her in her community to fight crime. Certainly not rockets and moon bases. Think more along the lines of what they use on shows like CSI or Bones...criminology tools and tech.

[MajorHoy]

. . . I was talking about things like grappling guns, computers and tech for her helmet (which originally in the golden age stories, she created on her own based from her intellect.) . . .

But she's not a full-time crime fighter, and where the heck is she suppose to store all that equipment / carry it around all the time?
Yes, a grappling gun line maybe . . . and she has computer access already.
By the way, we already saw a villain who relied TOO HEAVILY on modern tech / a wired outfit, so I don't think Barbara needs that.
(And you didn't really mean "the Golden Age stories", did you? Hell, I'm older than when the Barbara Gordon version of Batgirl was first created, and I wasn't born until several years into the Silver Age.)

[Karmasaywhat]

Gee. I guess I'm silly for enjoying what we have right now and waiting to see how the writer slowly expands her story rather than rush into things that wouldn't necessarily make sense.
What was I thinking?

Like I said, it's been 6 years since the start of the New 52. You're allowed to like the run, but my expectations aren't "premature". This is a character who's been around for half a century; I expect character development and progression.

The Dick Grayson thread is literally a thousand pages of people who want him to lead the Justice League, let me dream.

[bat_girl_cc]

I'm pretty sure the people wanting Steph and Cass in the book are the same ones that were complaining that they weren't being used and bitch about Babs being Batgirl again even though it has been 6 years already.

Hum...not sure, if thats the only reason...
Anyway, Babs main problem now, is that even if DC wantted to forget about the Burnside hipster Babs (they won't because Babs is currently filling her own niche), Batwoman is already the one mature and serious bat-female on the costume...i mean, ever since the "Batwoman concept" was reintroduced to the audience not long ago, there has been a debate of " why having a Batgirl and Batwoman at the same time basically doing the same thing and basically having the same roles in Gotham and on the bat-family? " well, for one Babs and Kate are obviously different characters, but when Babs is being written seriously like Simone did in the New 52 the roles that they play in Gotham are not that different...in a way they are both female counter-parts of Batman, both are good at everything crime-fighting related, while not being very good or close to being the best at any area (well, Babs is at tech and overall smarts, but still) them both existing at the same time and being Batgirl and Batwoman at the same time, for some people is kinda of needless...Well, the question of why and how we have them both at the same time? was answered recently when Babs started behaving like a Bat-girl as in being written like 12-year old girl and Batwoman kept behaving like a Bat-woman...obviously, this didn't do any favours to Babs (as it was expected) and to have them both being written as serious young adult women with one going by Batgirl and the other one going by Batwoman, basically with both filling the same nich, might not be what DC has in mind...anyway, i still belive that Oracle is the only role on which Babs is truly unique and special and not only usefull but important as well, and it could help Babs fanbase grow alot again, but sadly DC doesn't seem to think that way...
Some people may say, " but Cass was Batgirl at the time, and she was all serious and badass..." yes, but there was no Batwoman at the time...also one of the artist's of Cassandra's solo Batgirl run, said that the series were cancelled because DC Editorial decided to try Batwoman and they didn't wantted competition...in other words, DC didn't wantted 2 characters basically filling the same nich...that was also probaly the reason why Babs started behaving more like a "little girl" and also DC is determined to keep Babs as Batgirl...at this point honestly, DC should have Babs as being Oracle, Steph as being Batgirl with a writter that understands the character, Cass should stay as Orphan even tho i don't like the name, and Kate as Batwoman, the problem would be solved...
I also like Kate, and i also think that her as Batwoman is a good adittion to the bat-family, this it's only a problem, becuase DC just can't let go of having Babs as Batgirl.

[bat_girl_cc]

Anyway, with the Batgirl movie coming out, featuring Babs on the role, i don't belive that DC will have Babs being Oracle anytime soon...they will either relaunch Batgirl with a more serious tone, or keep the Burnside angle until they eventually finally realize that it doesn't work, if they haven't already.

[Godzilla2099]

I'm confused with Barbara at this point. My favorite books were with her as Oracle. Her character had far more substance. So after 52 she's no longer bound to a wheelchair and is suddenly young again?

[bat_girl_cc]

I'm confused with Barbara at this point. My favorite books were with her as Oracle. Her character had far more substance. So after 52 she's no longer bound to a wheelchair and is suddenly young again?

This, exactly!

Not only that, but she was having a role of a important member, and one of the best at what she did...as Batgirl, she's just another one, and not even one of the best...and now, even that she can't be, because of Batwoman, now Babs has to be a "Bat-girl" in the literal sense of the word, she can't be a serious young adult on the costume because that nich is already being filled, and DC probably doens't want 2 characters on that position...the best solution would be making her Oracle again, but we all know that isn't happening.

[Godlike13]

So you think there would be a sustainable market for Oracle then if they made her Oracle again? And then what happens with Batgirl?

[bat_girl_cc]

So you think there would be a sustainable market for Oracle then if they made her Oracle again? And then what happens with Batgirl?

Honestly, and assuming that DC wants to have a Batgirl that fills the nich that BabsBatgirl is currently filling, i would make Steph Batgirl but with a writter that understands the character, no more hipster bs...but as i said, DC Editorial loves Babs as Batgirl that's their headcannon and they won't let go of it, specially now with the Batgirl movie featuring Babs on the role coming up...i would make Babs Oracle, but sadly it isn't happening, so we are just here arguing what we would do knowing that it won't happen

[MajorHoy]

I'm confused with Barbara at this point. My favorite books were with her as Oracle. Her character had far more substance. So after 52 she's no longer bound to a wheelchair and is suddenly young again?

I take it you missed the whole point of the New52 where ALMOST EVERY CHARACTER IS NOW YOUNGER THAN THEY WERE BEFORE Flashpoint?

[RedQueen]

But why skip over Cass? See this is what gets me. The putting Steph into the Burnside void, because she "fits it better" doesn't make sense when the Burnside concept itself is somewhat unsustainable. In concept, it suits Babs more with the tech, social issues and commentary and doesn't have to function with Batman over her shoulder but so far it's just incredibly unfufiling for her as a character, but that's another issue...Cass definitely deserved to get the Batgirl solo if it is ever put up for grabs.

Cass offers a lot to the Bat mythology and for all intents and purposes she was robbed of solo so Batwoman could shine so to speak, and then they put Stephanie into the Batgirl role to get back to a Barbara Gordon-esque type which same as for why Jason was replaced with Tim, do get more back to the "OG style", as they wanted a more dick grayson type of Robin as Jason was a "bad robin". Anyways Cass was more sustainable and consistent in sales over Stephanie, and Cass was also easily the most wronged out of all the Batgirls. To me, Cass will always be the rightful inheritor of the Batgirl mantle if push comes to shove.

In saying that, I don't view Batgirl as a prized possession or a way to validate a character's worth in the Batfamily. In regards to Barbara, I'm invested in the Batgirl title because of Barbara Gordon, not because of the mantle. I want to see Barbara thrive as a character and the current direction is just not my thing and I believe Barbara's narrative deserves something else. I'm always open to new directions for characters, but only if that direction honors the character and Burnside is just not my thing. Like it's not horrible but it's bland, I mean consistently bland, and that's the cause of my frustration. I've been doing the long haul since the burnside shift so I am very patient, but it's gotten to a point where Babs needs another writing team or another Rebirth. They can keep the artist though because the art is great.

But yeah I hope the Benson sister bring in Cass to BoP like they offered in the tweet because I would love to read about the Barbara and Cass dynamic again.

[bat_girl_cc]

But why skip over Cass? See this is what gets me. The putting Steph into the Burnside void, because she "fits it better" doesn't make sense when the Burnside concept itself is somewhat unsustainable. In concept, it suits Babs more with the tech, social issues and commentary and doesn't have to function with Batman over her shoulder but so far it's just incredibly unfufiling for her as a character, but that's another issue...Cass definitely deserved to get the Batgirl solo if it is ever put up for grabs.

Cass offers a lot to the Bat mythology and for all intents and purposes she was robbed of solo so Batwoman could shine so to speak, and then they put Stephanie into the Batgirl role to get back to a Barbara Gordon-esque type which same as for why Jason was replaced with Tim, do get more back to the "OG style", as they wanted a more dick grayson type of Robin as Jason was a "bad robin". Anyways Cass was more sustainable and consistent in sales over Stephanie, and Cass was also easily the most wronged out of all the Batgirls. To me, Cass will always be the rightful inheritor of the Batgirl mantle if push comes to shove.

In saying that, I don't view Batgirl as a prized possession or a way to validate a character's worth in the Batfamily. In regards to Barbara, I'm invested in the Batgirl title because of Barbara Gordon, not because of the mantle. I want to see Barbara thrive as a character and the current direction is just not my thing and I believe Barbara's narrative deserves something else. I'm always open to new directions for characters, but only if that direction honors the character and Burnside is just not my thing. Like it's not horrible but it's bland, I mean consistently bland, and that's the cause of my frustration. I've been doing the long haul since the burnside shift so I am very patient, but it's gotten to a point where Babs needs another writing team or another Rebirth. They can keep the artist though because the art is great.

But yeah I hope the Benson sister bring in Cass to BoP like they offered in the tweet because I would love to read about the Barbara and Cass dynamic again.

Because, burnside batgirl is the complete oposite of Cassandra Batgirl...Steph Batgirl would be better and at least it wouldn't feel as out of place as Babs is currently...although, in all fairness the burnside hipster angle is terrible on many levels and Steph could eventually also suffer from it, its probably best to just bury the whole thing, but that leaves us with the same problem...and back we go again...what to do with Barbara now?
I agree with everything else you said.

[Dataweaver]

Babs should be a female Tim Drake: both Batgirl, crimefighting associate (not sidekick) of Batman, and Oracle, online hacker and information broker of the superhero community. With Superman Reborn, age her up by about a decade, making her a few years older than Dick. She's like Tim in that her primary asset is her intellect: she tends to out-think her for rather than simply outfighting them.

She's also a founding member of the Birds of Prey, and very much the brains of that team. That said, is like to see her starting up a “next generation” of the Birds of Prey, featuring Cass (as the Black Bat: as bad as that name is, it's better than Orphan), Spoiler, Misfit, and Proxy.

[millernumber1]

So you think there would be a sustainable market for Oracle then if they made her Oracle again? And then what happens with Batgirl?

Well, I think there would be a sustainable market for Oracle in a Birds of Prey title. And I think Barbara as a consistent thread around Gotham, tying everything together, is important. As Batgirl, she's paradoxically much more limited in where she can be.

But why skip over Cass? See this is what gets me. The putting Steph into the Burnside void, because she "fits it better" doesn't make sense when the Burnside concept itself is somewhat unsustainable. In concept, it suits Babs more with the tech, social issues and commentary and doesn't have to function with Batman over her shoulder but so far it's just incredibly unfufiling for her as a character, but that's another issue...Cass definitely deserved to get the Batgirl solo if it is ever put up for grabs.

Cass offers a lot to the Bat mythology and for all intents and purposes she was robbed of solo so Batwoman could shine so to speak, and then they put Stephanie into the Batgirl role to get back to a Barbara Gordon-esque type which same as for why Jason was replaced with Tim, do get more back to the "OG style", as they wanted a more dick grayson type of Robin as Jason was a "bad robin". Anyways Cass was more sustainable and consistent in sales over Stephanie, and Cass was also easily the most wronged out of all the Batgirls. To me, Cass will always be the rightful inheritor of the Batgirl mantle if push comes to shove.

In saying that, I don't view Batgirl as a prized possession or a way to validate a character's worth in the Batfamily. In regards to Barbara, I'm invested in the Batgirl title because of Barbara Gordon, not because of the mantle. I want to see Barbara thrive as a character and the current direction is just not my thing and I believe Barbara's narrative deserves something else. I'm always open to new directions for characters, but only if that direction honors the character and Burnside is just not my thing. Like it's not horrible but it's bland, I mean consistently bland, and that's the cause of my frustration. I've been doing the long haul since the burnside shift so I am very patient, but it's gotten to a point where Babs needs another writing team or another Rebirth. They can keep the artist though because the art is great.

But yeah I hope the Benson sister bring in Cass to BoP like they offered in the tweet because I would love to read about the Barbara and Cass dynamic again.

I also hope that the Bensons bring Cass into Birds of Prey - their cameos have been one of the title's biggest strengths.

I'm much more on board with a League of Batgirls than ditching Steph for Cass or ditching Cass for Steph. And I don't believe at all in only one heir, or the concept of a "rightful" heir, to any of the mantles.

But Christian Wildgoose's art is great. Shame his colorist is so flat and dull.

Babs should be a female Tim Drake: both Batgirl, crimefighting associate (not sidekick) of Batman, and Oracle, online hacker and information broker of the superhero community. With Superman Reborn, age her up by about a decade, making her a few years older than Dick. She's like Tim in that her primary asset is her intellect: she tends to out-think her for rather than simply outfighting them.

She's also a founding member of the Birds of Prey, and very much the brains of that team. That said, is like to see her starting up a “next generation” of the Birds of Prey, featuring Cass (as the Black Bat: as bad as that name is, it's better than Orphan), Spoiler, Misfit, and Proxy.

Back before Tec was announced, a lot of us Steph and Cass fans believed that Brenden Fletcher was setting up a new Birds of Prey title with Babs leading Dinah, Steph, Cass, and Harper, since that was what seemed to be happening in the last 6 issues of the title. I still think that would be a pretty great concept, even if I love what Tynion's doing with his own team concept in Tec.

[TheSeaDragon]

Oracle was a glorified supporting character that never carried a solo . People said how awesome she was because they want other batgirl
Besides, the tought of cripplin her again DISGUST me. And if she is not crippled, she will fight crime physically because thats what she wants to do