DCEU the Lois Lane part :mad:

[GreatKungLao]

i think you guys dont understand my point, i want go to the cinema see a superhero movie, that i get as much as possible from the hero and not another character. these movies were like man of steel and lois lane, and bvs and lois lane... iget what u try to say that shes important and stuff, but if we would get a batman movie where we see half of the time alfred or gordon instead of bats in action that would piss you off too!!!

Not at all, if Batman movie is going to have Catwoman half of the film it's going to be great. Besides, you simply can't have a good super hero movie without a heavy involvement of supporting cast of the said super hero, because they all play their parts of the protagonist forming himself as a super hero. You can't have Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles without April or The Last Airbender without Katara, just like you can't have Superman without Lois Lane. Otherwise it's going to be a very different kind of Superman and will get a big part of fans of the character feel alienated, you know, like New 52 did in comic books.

[dietrich]

You guys like her great. I don't know anyone who likes her. Not so much salty since my interest in the Super franchise only just perked up with the introduction of Jon. She can be in Superman movies all she wants so long as she stays away from Batman, Supersons and other DC stuff the I'm golden.

The Justice League movies I'm fine with. Gal is on fire right now and there are lots of other heroes properties that need to be showcased. Changes of DC giving Lois Lane having enough screen time to annoy even me are minuscule.

[Jim Kelly]

There's always google or bing. Put lois lane in your search terms and the first thing that's likely to come up is her wikipedia page, followed by a bunch of databases below that--all give a long long list of Lois Lane's history in the comics and other media, vouching for how popular she has been. Is she as popular as she used to be when she had her own dedicated comic book title or when she was a lead character in her own TV series? Maybe not, but her resumé certainly would give DC Entertainment a reason to think she's a viable character going forward and an important part of the Superman franchise.

Moreover, the movies try to get a broader cross-section of the public into the theatre seats than the niche market that comics aim for. If you look at the Donner SUPERMAN or the Jenkins WONDER WOMAN, they both succeed by having something for different members of the audience. The romantic chemistry between Reeve and Kidder and between Gadot and Pine make those pictures great date movies. So you get both women and men coming to see these movies. That might not be what everyone wants--and for those people that don't like that mush, that's their opportunity to go out to the concession or the washroom--but it certainly accounts for a lot of their popularity.

If I was going to critique the CK and LL romance in MOS and BVS it would be that those movies heat up the relationship too quickly and they don't spend enough time on the slow burn--which is often the best part of a romance.

[Vanguard-01]

There's always google or bing. Put lois lane in your search terms and the first thing that's likely to come up is her wikipedia page, followed by a bunch of databases below that--all give a long long list of Lois Lane's history in the comics and other media, vouching for how popular she has been. Is she as popular as she used to be when she had her own dedicated comic book title or when she was a lead character in her own TV series? Maybe not, but her resumé certainly would give DC Entertainment a reason to think she's a viable character going forward and an important part of the Superman franchise.

Moreover, the movies try to get a broader cross-section of the public into the theatre seats than the niche market that comics aim for. If you look at the Donner SUPERMAN or the Jenkins WONDER WOMAN, they both succeed by having something for different members of the audience. The romantic chemistry between Reeve and Kidder and between Gadot and Pine make those pictures great date movies. So you get both women and men coming to see these movies. That might not be what everyone wants--and for those people that don't like that mush, that's their opportunity to go out to the concession or the washroom--but it certainly accounts for a lot of their popularity.

Very true!

If I was going to critique the CK and LL romance in MOS and BVS it would be that those movies heat up the relationship too quickly and they don't spend enough time on the slow burn--which is often the best part of a romance.

Also a fair critique. Particularly in the case of Lois and Clark, the slow buildup of the romance is enjoyable because they're supposed to have that initial personality clash and semi-hostility toward each other, and that's always fun to watch when it's done right.

This is why I still think Erica Durance is the best Lois Lane we've ever seen. She had whole seasons where she and Clark demonstrated no real attraction to each other and that left her free to be her charmingly sarcastic self toward him. And when they finally DID fall for each other, it felt like this really rewarding payoff for all of us as we got to feel like "Finally!"

The DCEU? Yeah, I'll admit that they jumped straight to the whole building passion thing a little too fast. We still, after two movies, have never been treated to seeing Lois call him "Smallville." We never saw him mock him as a coward when he disappears and lets "Superman" handle the danger. She just went right to being in love with him and that was denying the audience a pretty fun ride.

Heck, the only person who has called Clark "Smallville" is Perry White. Now, that's okay because Lawrence Fishburne's performance is just so dang charismatic, but it would've been nice for that to remain Lois and Clark's thing.

[GreatKungLao]

Very true!



Also a fair critique. Particularly in the case of Lois and Clark, the slow buildup of the romance is enjoyable because they're supposed to have that initial personality clash and semi-hostility toward each other, and that's always fun to watch when it's done right.

This is why I still think Erica Durance is the best Lois Lane we've ever seen. She had whole seasons where she and Clark demonstrated no real attraction to each other and that left her free to be her charmingly sarcastic self toward him. And when they finally DID fall for each other, it felt like this really rewarding payoff for all of us as we got to feel like "Finally!"

The DCEU? Yeah, I'll admit that they jumped straight to the whole building passion thing a little too fast. We still, after two movies, have never been treated to seeing Lois call him "Smallville." We never saw him mock him as a coward when he disappears and lets "Superman" handle the danger. She just went right to being in love with him and that was denying the audience a pretty fun ride.

Heck, the only person who has called Clark "Smallville" is Perry White. Now, that's okay because Lawrence Fishburne's performance is just so dang charismatic, but it would've been nice for that to remain Lois and Clark's thing.

Personally to me Lois and Clark in DCEU was a nice change of pace, because what you have described was great and all, but it was done too many times and honestly after 7 years/seasons of Lana in Smallville I think another that long of a ride to Lois & Clark would be too much. Sometimes it's good to change swings to a roller coaster. I would rather want people to watch Smallville itself than repeat Smallville in DCEU.

[Miles To Go]

You guys like her great. I don't know anyone who likes her.

You have a vastly minimalist scope of the world

Not so much salty since my interest in the Super franchise only just perked up with the introduction of Jon. She can be in Superman movies all she wants so long as she stays away from Batman, Supersons and other DC stuff the I'm golden.

Why should she barred from Supersons when she's Jon's mom and has already made several appearances? Why should she stay away from other stuff when her love for Clark and her family is one of the many reasons the universe was recently rebooted?

[dietrich]

You have a vastly minimalist scope of the world



Why should she barred from Supersons when she's Jon's mom and has already made several appearances? Why should she stay away from other stuff when her love for Clark and her family is one of the many reasons the universe was recently rebooted?

No I just don't know the whole world however Lois Lane isn't a fan favourite. At all. At best she is simply meh to the GA. No casual buys a ticket for Lois. They went for Amy or Superman.

The world doesn't care those I know like to take the piss out of her mostly.

She has no business in Supersons neither does Talia. She isn't attached at the hip with her son so no piggy backing on his book. The Batcave has been featured in Supersons more than Lois so I wouldn't mind if they keep it at that level.

I don't expect her in Batman, TT, Nightwing, Aquaman, Gotham Academy, Deathstroke, RHATO or any of the stuff on my pull because why the hell would she.

Who said she should be barred? i never said that. So defensive.

DC can do what they want I simply put my money elsewhere. It isn't a big deal DC has so far catered to my gaming, cartoon, animated movie, movie and comic needs with Lois free content I don't see that changing so safe. Supersons is the only thing that brings me into this side of the uni and she is barely featured in that. If she has a big feature then I just wont pick it up.

It isn't a big deal at all

[Vanguard-01]

No I just don't know the whole world however Lois Lane isn't a fan favourite. At all. At best she is simply meh to the GA. No casual buys a ticket for Lois. They went for Amy or Superman.

The world doesn't care those I know like to take the piss out of her mostly.

I believe you JUST STATED that you don't know the entire world, correct? So just because the people in your social circles don't like her in no way means that the rest of the world doesn't care about her or doesn't like her.

She has no business in Supersons neither does Talia. She isn't attached at the hip with her son so no piggy backing on his book. The Batcave has been featured in Supersons more than Lois so I wouldn't mind if they keep it at that level.

Superheroes who have parents often have those parents appear in their books because that's the whole point of a hero having connections with other characters: they can be used as interesting plot points in certain stories. If Supersons does a story in which some supervillain decides to force Jon under his control by kidnapping and threatening Lois, for example? Maybe Jon scews up on a mission and, like the child that he is, he returns home to seek guidance from his mother and/or father?

I don't expect her in Batman, TT, Nightwing, Aquaman, Gotham Academy, Deathstroke, RHATO or any of the stuff on my pull because why the hell would she.

Batman? Because she and Bruce are friends and on at least two occasions she's borrowed his tech? The possibility of her appearing in Gotham pursuing a story of some kind is also a possibility.

TT? Jon may one day join the team. Likely, in fact, seeing as how his "best friend" is the God Emperor of the team who can unilaterally fire other members and cripple fellow superheroes with zero repercussions. If he joins the team? Story options for involving his mother become available.

Nightwing? Investigating a story?

Aquaman? Investigating a story? Conducting an interview with the King of Atlantis?

Gotham Academy? Last I heard it was ending? Even if not? If there's a potential news story there, a writer can easily justify bringing in the most famous reporter in DC Comics.

Deathstroke? Investigating him? He's got a new team of heroes, right? She could want to find out if they're being somehow coerced into working for him?

RHATO? See above. If there's a news story angle to a story, Lobdell could easily decide to make use of the best reporter in the DCU to add some depth to the story.

Not saying she WILL make any of these appearances, mind you. But if a writer wants her in one of your books, then it's going to happen. Simple as that.

Who said she should be barred? i never said that. So defensive.

DC can do what they want I simply put my money elsewhere. It isn't a big deal DC has so far catered to my gaming, cartoon, animated movie, movie and comic needs with Lois free content I don't see that changing so safe. Supersons is the only thing that brings me into this side of the uni and she is barely featured in that. If she has a big feature then I just wont pick it up.

It isn't a big deal at all

So one brief guest appearance from Lois Lane and you stop buying a book you like? You'll forgive me if I note that this seems like an extreme response?

[DochaDocha]

I think almost every superhero movie would benefit from the slow burn romance. I'm sorry, it almost never works for me to have a 2-hr movie filled with exposition, action, and romance, and going from just meeting to "You complete me!" Romantic comedies have a hard enough time doing it when it doesn't have to balance in all those other things, and it just seems wonkier in superhero movies. Plus with Superman, most of us have a preexisting notion that Clark Kent doesn't just win over Lois like that. I suppose it's okay to buck tradition, but considering the history of comics and TV, and even prior movies, maybe MoS goes too far.

As for how to use Lois in the movie, I would definitely avoid the "she's the key" narrative. I think MoS does well in making her useful without making Superman abjectly dependent on her for his sanity or whatever. A movie like Superman: Doomsday did it really well, I think. Obviously, with Superman dead, someone has to fill the in-between sections, and I thought they did a great job there bringing Lois to the forefront without, again, making it so that she becomes an ersatz Superwoman while Superman is coming back to life. I also liked her in Superman vs. the Elite, where she is being useful in a stealthy and strategic fashion where Superman or Clark Kent might not be able to operate. I don't know if the DCEU is going to do it in a way that's satisfactory for me, but I guess we'll see. I think they're going down a bad path, though, so I hope I'm wrong.

[Francisco]

There really wasn't any problems with Lois in MOS. They used her well in that one. Well up to the kiss on top of the massive graveyard near the end of the movie just before the massive fight with Zod. It was on BvS when they dropped the ball. There's no need for Superman to save Lois Lane 3 times in the same movie and not to be able to save his mom just once. She was shoved down our throats and placed in scenes she shouldn't have being included. Well, that entire movie was a colossal waste of time anyway.

[Black Angel]

No I just don't know the whole world however Lois Lane isn't a fan favourite. At all. At best she is simply meh to the GA. No casual buys a ticket for Lois. They went for Amy or Superman.

The world doesn't care those I know like to take the piss out of her mostly.

She has no business in Supersons neither does Talia. She isn't attached at the hip with her son so no piggy backing on his book. The Batcave has been featured in Supersons more than Lois so I wouldn't mind if they keep it at that level.

I don't expect her in Batman, TT, Nightwing, Aquaman, Gotham Academy, Deathstroke, RHATO or any of the stuff on my pull because why the hell would she.

Who said she should be barred? i never said that. So defensive.

DC can do what they want I simply put my money elsewhere. It isn't a big deal DC has so far catered to my gaming, cartoon, animated movie, movie and comic needs with Lois free content I don't see that changing so safe. Supersons is the only thing that brings me into this side of the uni and she is barely featured in that. If she has a big feature then I just wont pick it up.

It isn't a big deal at all

Yea i do agree if she stays out what i like or is limited i'm cool you she shoudl have the Alfred role at times badass when used but not over used. I feel you when you said she isn't a fan fave most of the Superman fans i know just liek her out of tradition it seems, but they really have been turning away from her lately. One even dare say he feels she is destined now to just help raise Jon then died to add a new character development for him and Supes.

I honestly was shocked but i can see what he means unlike sadly Batman characters and other members of the Supes Fam lois can't really be on her own. But Still as long as Supes is there, there will always be lois lane (changing as it may be).

[dietrich]

I believe you JUST STATED that you don't know the entire world, correct? So just because the people in your social circles don't like her in no way means that the rest of the world doesn't care about her or doesn't like her.



Superheroes who have parents often have those parents appear in their books because that's the whole point of a hero having connections with other characters: they can be used as interesting plot points in certain stories. If Supersons does a story in which some supervillain decides to force Jon under his control by kidnapping and threatening Lois, for example? Maybe Jon scews up on a mission and, like the child that he is, he returns home to seek guidance from his mother and/or father?



Batman? Because she and Bruce are friends and on at least two occasions she's borrowed his tech? The possibility of her appearing in Gotham pursuing a story of some kind is also a possibility.

TT? Jon may one day join the team. Likely, in fact, seeing as how his "best friend" is the God Emperor of the team who can unilaterally fire other members and cripple fellow superheroes with zero repercussions. If he joins the team? Story options for involving his mother become available.

Nightwing? Investigating a story?

Aquaman? Investigating a story? Conducting an interview with the King of Atlantis?

Gotham Academy? Last I heard it was ending? Even if not? If there's a potential news story there, a writer can easily justify bringing in the most famous reporter in DC Comics.

Deathstroke? Investigating him? He's got a new team of heroes, right? She could want to find out if they're being somehow coerced into working for him?

RHATO? See above. If there's a news story angle to a story, Lobdell could easily decide to make use of the best reporter in the DCU to add some depth to the story.

Not saying she WILL make any of these appearances, mind you. But if a writer wants her in one of your books, then it's going to happen. Simple as that.



So one brief guest appearance from Lois Lane and you stop buying a book you like? You'll forgive me if I note that this seems like an extreme response?

I don't know the whole world but thank god for the internet I know people outside my social circle also don't care for Lois.

You can list reasons but as I said before she's not popped up so far and I'm confident she won't. We are talking Lois lane here not Batman or any sort if DC heavyweight that makes regular cameos in the Larger DCU.

I think I'm pretty safe.

Again I said if she has a heavy feature I just won't pull it that issue not the book. If there was a big arc in Supersons with Lois I will just avoid that arc that's not unusual or extreme. If she becomes a regular part of the title then yeah I'm out.

[Miles To Go]

I feel you when you said she isn't a fan fave most of the Superman fans i know

You must be really hard up for friends then.

And people only like her because of tradition? Nonsense. People like her because she's a strong and well rounded character, a pitch perfect durable and emotional anchor that compliments Kal throughout all his incarnations.

I don't know the whole world but thank god for the internet I know people outside my social circle also don't care for Lois.

Where as I can go online and find plenty of people who care for her.

If there was a big arc in Supersons with Lois I will just avoid that arc that's not unusual or extreme. If she becomes a regular part of the title then yeah I'm out.

That's really incredibly petty, but it's your loss.

[dietrich]

There's always google or bing. Put lois lane in your search terms and the first thing that's likely to come up is her wikipedia page, followed by a bunch of databases below that--all give a long long list of Lois Lane's history in the comics and other media, vouching for how popular she has been. Is she as popular as she used to be when she had her own dedicated comic book title or when she was a lead character in her own TV series? Maybe not, but her resumé certainly would give DC Entertainment a reason to think she's a viable character going forward and an important part of the Superman franchise.

Moreover, the movies try to get a broader cross-section of the public into the theatre seats than the niche market that comics aim for. If you look at the Donner SUPERMAN or the Jenkins WONDER WOMAN, they both succeed by having something for different members of the audience. The romantic chemistry between Reeve and Kidder and between Gadot and Pine make those pictures great date movies. So you get both women and men coming to see these movies. That might not be what everyone wants--and for those people that don't like that mush, that's their opportunity to go out to the concession or the washroom--but it certainly accounts for a lot of their popularity.

If I was going to critique the CK and LL romance in MOS and BVS it would be that those movies heat up the relationship too quickly and they don't spend enough time on the slow burn--which is often the best part of a romance.

I get that she is a big part of Superman's world but I think Superfans underestimate how much the rest of us really don't care and how little that means to the GA.

Awareness of something doesn't make it beloved and popularity shifts.

Most people don't know this material you speak of.
The comic industry is tiny what the general public does know is the Donner movies which had a sort of shallow crazy Lois, lots of Superdickery shenanigans, Lois being in love with Superman and not having any feelings for bumbling reporter Clark.
Black face Lois, Lois doing ridiculous things to prove that Clark is Superman. All the meme worthy rubbish .Stuff like that is what the public see and know . I know this because that's all I knew till Rebirth Superman when I really looked at the Superverse.

That stuff isn't flattering or endearing

In the recent movies, Lois seems more stable, sane and less shallow but their relationship is sort of hollow and too soon. I can buy Donner's Clark falling for Kidder but not this new version

I think the Superverse needs to explore other members of the Super family and highlight them more cos it always seems like Clarks world revolves around Lois and that's not a good thing.

They need to get rid if that whole "Lois is my link to humanity" garbage because not only is it super insulting to his human parents [and all his connections and relationships growing up] it also makes it seem like the real Clark is the Injustice Clark and Lois is the one thing stopping him from going full dear leader on us meaning the guy is not even a true hero.

[dietrich]

You must be really hard up for friends then.

And people only like her because of tradition? Nonsense. People like her because she's a strong and well rounded character, a pitch perfect durable and emotional anchor that compliments Kal throughout all his incarnations.



Where as I can go online and find plenty of people who care for her.



That's really incredibly petty, but it's your loss.

Not really i just like to avoid things that I don't like. Do you do things you don't like often?