Scarlet Witch, Magik, Doctor Strange, The Spectre

[Tami]

Comic and MCU versions

Composite Scarlet Witch (Wanda Maximoff)

vs

Composite Magik (Illyana Rasputina)

vs

Composite Doctor Strange


Then the winner versus DC's The Spectre (Composite)


How does this end up?

[Wildling]

I suspect it quickly becomes House of M Wanda vs Spectre.

[Beadle]

Composite Wanda is still probably crapping out around House of M level, and even at that point she was still a glass cannon and still didn’t affect everybody (although maybe with MCU Wanda she gets more complete coverage).

Composite Illyana has a bit less fragile, what with the Darkchilde & Phoenix 5 stuff. I haven’t seen New Mutants yet, but I’m still not sure she’s got quite enough gun to live with Strange or Spectre.

Then we step up to Strange. Composite Stevie includes the combination of channelling Shuma Gorath, channelling Zom, batshit black magic stuff, avatar of Eternity and then the Time Stone from the MCU and his ability to use it to dick around almost effortlessly with people on the level of MCU Dorm. Actually, 616 also had an Infinity Gem, although I’m not sure what feats (if any) he had with it.

Stevie comes out on top out of those three.

Composite Spectre, however, includes DoV Spectre who was just eating the **** out of all magic in the universe (I wanna say multiverse, but it’s been a while, so...bleh?), which is pretty much Strange’s worst nightmare, and PC Spectre also pulled out A LOT of stuff that is just nuts.

I’m still plumping for Spectre, even with the avatar of Eternity stuff for Strange.

[Sharpandpointies]

If House of M Wanda is her strongest, and she is (as noted) a glass cannon, yeah, Shuma-Gorath-Consuming/Avatar of Eternity Strange annihilates her simply by showing up in the arena.

Edit: Also Magick, really, unless she has 'withstands a power release that burns galaxies - plural' as part of her durability feats.

[Rightoya]

Either Composite Scarlett Witch or a Doctor Strange with prep lose to Spectre.

[Beadle]

Either Composite Scarlett Witch or a Doctor Strange with prep lose to Spectre.

There’s simply no way Composite Wanda beats Composite Strange, even without prep.

As Sharp said, the very fact that Shuma-Gorath-mainlining, Avatar-of-Eternity Strange is physically in the same postcode as Wanda means she dies. Horribly.

[Rightoya]

There’s simply no way Composite Wanda beats Composite Strange, even without prep.

As Sharp said, the very fact that Shuma-Gorath-mainlining, Avatar-of-Eternity Strange is physically in the same postcode as Wanda means she dies. Horribly.

What is he going to do about her reality warping, or to stop Scarlet Witch from just banishing Shuma-Gorath?

[Beadle]

What is he going to do about her reality warping, or to stop Scarlet Witch from just banishing Shuma-Gorath?

Mostly ignore it.

There were people in House of M for whom it didn’t actually take (Wolvie, IIRC?), and Strange’s power levels in this form and his general resistance to esoterica mean he should be lolnoping it completely.

But it’s a moot point, because it’s literally a case of Composite Strange being in the arena with Wanda means she dies. It’s not like he has to do anything.

He’s there. She’s dead.

That’s what the Shuma Gorath part means.

[Rightoya]

Mostly ignore it.

There were people in House of M for whom it didn’t actually take (Wolvie, IIRC?), and Strange’s power levels in this form and his general resistance to esoterica mean he should be lolnoping it completely.

But it’s a moot point, because it’s literally a case of Composite Strange being in the arena with Wanda means she dies. It’s not like he has to do anything.

He’s there. She’s dead.

That’s what the Shuma Gorath part means.

Maybe i'm missing some versions of Doctor Strange, but it's news to me that he was that powerful without prep, and since when kills the presence of Shuma-Gorath reality warpers?

[Beadle]

Maybe i'm missing some versions of Doctor Strange, but it's news to me that he was that powerful without prep, and since when kills the presence of Shuma-Gorath reality warpers?

At times Strange has been pretty broken.

But being a reality warper doesn’t make Wanda any more resistant to stuff, or any quicker to fire them off. She’s still basically a healthy normal human in terms of durability.

She’s a glass cannon is the point I’m reiterating.

[Sharpandpointies]

Maybe i'm missing some versions of Doctor Strange, but it's news to me that he was that powerful without prep, and since when kills the presence of Shuma-Gorath reality warpers?

Some detailed explanation.

There is a brief period (Strange Tales II, final few issues) where Black Magic Strange literally consumes the essence of a Chaoslord (amusingly named 'Arioch', and Michael Moorcock's lawyers were no doubt scrambling for phones), granting him sufficient power to take it directly to Shuma-Gorath in a fight between equals, and then consumes Shuma-Gorath's power after that. It runs for about three issues - long enough that it would be what Strange actually IS for that time, not just a 'preps, does one thing with that prep, over.' It's kind of Strange's state of being for a bit.

During this time, his power is such that Kaluu, a dude in that series operating roughly the same level as Classic Strange himself, can't touch him without immediately starting to die (like, when I say touch him, I mean 'grab his shirt' touch him, not 'try to fight'). This, despite Kaluu's mystic defenses which are on the same level as Classic Strange's. Classic Strange does stuff like 'defend himself against a supernova in the face', Kaluu is roughly on his level, so Kaluu thinking 'if he even touches me now, I'll go like a leaf in a bonfire' really makes the point about the difference in power.

Then as they travel throughout the dimensions heading toward earth, Strange begins releasing energies of such power that Kaluu realizes him merely showing up in the Earth Dimension will burn galaxies. That's not 'Strange could, if he wanted, burn galaxies.' It's 'Strange shows up, galaxies (plural) die immediately from the release of energy.' This is actually fairly consistent with Shuma-Gorath's overall presentation (especially considering that there's some point to be made that it's the energies of a Chaoslord capable of fighting Shuma-Gorath PLUS Shuma-Gorath's own energies that Strange is mainlining) - at the time, it was noted that beings like Mephisto and Dormammu (!!!) would be 'like ants in a great cathedral' compared to him (or something along those lines), and he was written as an existential threat to the entire universe.

So, the Arena not being some 'special outer dimension where just the magical force of that dimension causes people of Kaluu's level of power to start to die simply from being there' (in which special dimension, Strange had zero issues holding all of this power inside himself) means that if Shuma-Gorath-and-Arioch-Eating Black Magic Strange shows up in the arena, the first thing that basically happens is a massive release of energy on the level of 'galaxies (plural) wither and die'.

Wanda -- having no power on that level, even House of M Wanda (unless we go with the idea that she was actually warping the entire universe, which...there's some contradictory information on that), and not really having the reaction time to do anything about it (regardless of universal-or-not reality warping power, this is an issue) -- ends up going the way of everything else in the arena not capable of handling that level of oomph, and dies.

Everyone in the audience is really, really happy about the arena shields, which have contained worse than this. Though it's probably a hell of a lightshow.

[Beadle]

Ah, that’s right - Arioch.

I couldn’t remember if Strange was actually channelling Shuma Gorath’s own power against him or that of a roughly equivalent being.

Thank you for clarifying.

[Sharpandpointies]

Ah, that’s right - Arioch.

I couldn’t remember if Strange was actually channelling Shuma Gorath’s own power against him or that of a roughly equivalent being.

Thank you for clarifying.

Your memory is partially correct on both counts! ^_^

Arioch pops up the issue before the Shuma-Gorath fight. Starts whupping Stephen's rear. Strange inexplicably insta-powerjacks him (as Pendaran might put it, 'Black Magic Strange was all kinds of crazy'). Then he and SG tussle it out in the next issue, finishing the fight with philosophy and yes, some fun use of SG's power against him which is what you might be recalling (Strange actually utilizes Shuma-Gorath's own magical effigy of the Earth, plus his own stolen power, to basically 'stuff an explosive mote in the god's eye').

SG go boom.

[Sharpandpointies]

Went back and checked - I got some of the timeline mixed up. In a way that makes things a tad MORE scary.

FIRST Strange and Kaluu cross countless dimensions, Strange bleeding off staggering amounts of power as he does.

THEN Kaluu tries to discuss things with Strange, and almost dies. And notes that Strange touching him again will destroy him 'like a leaf in a bonfire'.

[Slade1]

The Dr.Strange starting the fight in Shuman Gorath form is curious. If he obliterates Wanda by just being there wouldn't he be disqualified because you cannot attack an opponent before the bell?