How would you bring Conner Kent back?

[stephens2177]

This right here.

Cool uncle sure,not bro

[shadowsgirl]

I feel where you're coming from, and like I said I wouldn't be against the idea. But in the larger view of the DCU and its generations of heroes, 19-21 *might* be too close to the Titans' ages. Business, and all that.

Of course, you could always use the "doesnt age" thing and have Conner 19-21 but still look like a teenager. Or have him sort of in between the two generations. Or you could just use Kara to fill the "YJ generation" slot and have Conner sitting on the younger end of the "Titans generation" age bracket. But then that removes him a little from his friends and peers like Tim and Bart.

How old is Tim? 17-18 or so? He was getting ready to go to college when Oz kidnapped him so he's gotta be around that age. Maybe as old as 19. That's probably where we'll find Conner when/if he returns.

Unfortunately, Tim is just 16 years old. It was confirmed in Detective Comics. Damian turned into 13 with Rebirth, but the writers kept Tim as 16. It doesn't make any sense, but they don't care. Tim is a super genius, who graduated years before he formed the Teen Titans in the New52.

[stephens2177]

Then I would have Tim and bart 16 to 17,and Kon 18 to 19,with Cassie around 18.their ages don't have to be exactly the same,BOTH versions of YJ have done it like that

[Ascended]

Unfortunately, Tim is just 16 years old. It was confirmed in Detective Comics. Damian turned into 13 with Rebirth, but the writers kept Tim as 16. It doesn't make any sense, but they don't care. Tim is a super genius, who graduated years before he formed the Teen Titans in the New52.

Huh, I missed that.

I really sort of hate that they've made Tim a genius. He was a great detective, he doesnt have to be a genius. I feel like it actually makes him less unique. Its like, in the DCU you're either of average intelligence or you've got three PhD's and six Masters, all gained before you hit 20 years old.

[stephens2177]

Huh, I missed that.

I really sort of hate that they've made Tim a genius. He was a great detective, he doesnt have to be a genius. I feel like it actually makes him less unique. Its like, in the DCU you're either of average intelligence or you've got three PhD's and six Masters, all gained before you hit 20 years old.

They do that same dumb **** with power levels also,you are either street level,or a world destroyer.kon was imo a mid tier character,cause even though he could take a beating from the top tier guys,he was still getting his ass handed to him all the time.

And NO,I don't want Kon to be a mid tier guy anymore.if you combine 1st appearance Superman levels of physical power,TTK a combo of Kesel and lobdell,and genetically engineered powers,he should be a top.tier powerhouse,guess we will see...maybe.

[Thor2014]

I say have Kon be time-displaced and be hanging out with the Legion in the future.

[stephens2177]

I say have Kon be time-displaced and be hanging out with the Legion in the future.

I would almost be ok with thst,if it wasn't for the fact that writers want to make him Clark jr when he is there,and his friends are in the present waiting for a YJ Rebirth.

[C-Dot]

Johns' Titans run began in 2003. Eight years with Lex as a donor. Close enough to a decade. If we count to larger media efforts, its over a decade.

It's not "a decade" or "over a decade" like you stated (that honor goes to the original Kon BTW).....and and even with other media, it's still not over a decade at all . New 52 Superboy was still THE Superboy in comics, appeared in other media as well, and is still the current Kon until a definitive change happens.

It's true that synergy doesn't happen with all media. But it does happen. And its not rare.

And where did I say that it didn't happen? I said that they are not beholden to it or it's required for success.

All true, but Johns is the chief creative officer at DC now. He has a very large say in what happens. More so than anyone else at DC outside of a small handful of people.

So none of his work was ever changed, undone, or straight up replaced in recent years or before that or even now, right? His title doesn't mean Johns can automatically do whatever he wants unless it's the "Geoff Johns Comics Company". It is a business. The company bottom line, like any other business, is paramount.

Go ask a random person on the street who Paul Westfield was. Then ask them who Lex Luthor is.

And? "One is known more than the other" doesn't mean "one is better based solely on name". People know The Joker more than Joe Chill. Did it stop them from using Joe Chill as the Wayne Family killer because Joker is more popular? No. Did it stop them from using Tony Zucco as the Grayson family killers because Two Face is more popular? No. Again, does it stop them from using Henri Ducard when Ducard as R'as is more popular? No. Does it stop Marvel from making Ultron Pym's creation because of Stark in the films? No. All of the above are in media that is vastly more popular than a formerly cancelled cable cartoon or a series in which said character wasn't even a main character for the sheer majority of it. A writer can take a character, look into what the character is about, and write a decent story regardless of whatever place he or she has in the "hierarchy". Do you think many people knew who or what a Rocket Raccoon or a Groot was before GOTC?

Lex Luthor doesn't mean "oh everyone else is secondary" by default. In the previous, Westfield's role made sense (means, motive, backstory, etc.) and Lex's role made no sense ("because Luthor!" was literally the explanation despite contradictions). Luthor does not have to be in every single Superman related character's origin story....especially the one that he was trying to stop from happening. Superboy does not need Luthor or ever needed Luthor to be successful and that way proven from day one (with more issues than Johns, more spinoffs than Johns, etc.). The draw of Superboy is the character of Superboy first and foremost and he's not defined by someone else.

Nope, they don't have an obligation to follow these other versions and versions. And they might do something different. But Im thinking the odds are very heavily in favor of Lex as DNA donor.

Unless one actually works in the Superman office and knows, no one can say what they will do or won't do. The character didn't have Luthor at all for years. Who knows what they will do.

You seem like you've got some sort of personal problem here, from the aggressive way you responded to my post.

"Aggressive"....right. But I do have a so called "problem" with comments that are dismissive of what came before. Like that "Random Cadmus Guy" crack? Right there with "OMG It's soooo 90's!" (and ironically you cracked on 90's readers too), "Superboy was nothing before Geoff Johns/Young Justice TV/Etc.!" and other mess and untruths. He wasn't a "Random Cadmus Guy" if one actually reads.

Does Lex as a donor offend you in some fashion?

Bad stories, lack of established character, and nonsensical plot with 0 explanations do. So maybe a smidge? Like the Lori Luthor incest angle Johns added? It was not a good idea in theory or in execution, there is no such thing as "evil genes" in any form of cloning science, two donors make no sense when a clone is just one, the character never went off the deep end about who he was cloned from, and a character solely defined by who he's cloned from (with that story being the ONLY story) is not what Kon-El was.

Take it up with the people responsible.

I'll write my congressman.

[C-Dot]

IMO, This is largely been the character's undoing. Writers changing up the character's donnors. Like the Maximoff's ever changing parentage, changing Kon's donnors kinda became the go-to story with him. Superman, Westfield then Lex, then apparently alt Jon, Lois, and Supes. Just makes him more and more inconsistent, convoluted origin. Personally I'm hoping they stick with the lex/supes one, that's my preference. But whatever they do, I hope they give him an origin that can be summed up in one sentence and then stick to their guns.

Superman was not Kon's donor originally. They showed that Cadmus couldn't clone him (and lost the data needed to make him a full clone from scratch) before Superboy even debuted. So when Kon showed up, it was presented as a mystery with people wondering if he truly was Superman back from the dead as a clone and Luthor being angry when he tried to stop Cadmus from cloning Superman. His tactile telekinesis was the first sign that he wasn't at all what he seemed.

So it's Westfield (Superboy's DNA was radically changed to be the closest Kryptonian genetic equivalent), then patterned after Roxy Leech's DNA and he was stuck at 16 (Meltdown arc. Process that made Match was killing him.), then back to normal and able to age once again. It was Johns who made Superman a donor despite all the books out there that said "nope" and added Lex who actively tried to stop Cadmus from cloning Superman and was the first to learn that Superboy wasn't made from Superman. Then when New 52 hit, it's the Superman Family Combo Platter......

[C-Dot]

Though, he was screwed up before the New 52. He was a little better after his resurrection, but people seem to forget that Johns screwed him up first, many years before the New 52. New 52 tried to fix it and just ran into its own problems for trying to be too cute.

Pretty much

[Thor-Ul]

I say have Kon be time-displaced and be hanging out with the Legion in the future.

This should be the best solution.

[stephens2177]

Of course C-Dot is correct on all points,and yes Kon should not have been messed with after graduation day
,BUT we have geoffs TT,Smallvilles season 11,young Justice TV show,and new 52 lobdell versions now all after the original,and they all need accounted for,if not for anything but they all have fans that we need to make a strong collective fanbase for Kon going forward.

That being said things now have to be changed retroactively(which is dumb as hell I know,and not my 1st choice at all).I say follow the original origin,and where you can throw in bits from the other 4 versions that "could" make sense inside the original origin.

I have it mapped out already in my head,I could probably make it work myself,where every fan felt Kon was "their" Kon,but I don't trust DC to do the same at all.

[dietrich]

Huh, I missed that.

I really sort of hate that they've made Tim a genius. He was a great detective, he doesnt have to be a genius. I feel like it actually makes him less unique. Its like, in the DCU you're either of average intelligence or you've got three PhD's and six Masters, all gained before you hit 20 years old.

It is getting very ridiculous. I mean in the Batfamily alone you've got Tim Damian and Duke all geniuses with Damian having got his PhD aged 10 that is just too much.

[Slaughter]

I would have a Metropolis Kid taken out of his origin, when he broke out of Cadmus, and his latest version Kon-El (to prevent time shenanigans). At the end of Rebirth, his past and present version are freed, the Metropolis Kid goes back to his proper place in time, while modern Kon-El comes back to the present and everybody remembers him as they should.

Anyone read Convergence: Superboy?

[stephens2177]

Convergence was pretty good,but Kon has moved On past that part of his life.not to mention he was way to powerful imo,he had all the kryptonian and TTK abilities,,if he had that in the actual main DCU he would be a villian inside a year.

Im hoping Kon will be a part of "Tim's team" that is free inside Oz's prison.

It was a weird solicit,because it mentioned red Robin and Tim,made me think they were talking about them separately,as in the young Tim breaks out the older Tim and hopefully Kon and Bart.

Anyways I want Kon coming back swinging,ready and willing to kick much ass.

And I don't want him to back track to the past,I want him a lil older than when we last saw him on that water tower.

Rebirth Kon plz,make kesels masterpiece and Geoff's "iconic" additions work together,bring back new 52 Kon as Match and have Kon have the same powers,but tactile,not Marvel girl like.