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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    Cause even if they're not perfect they're still kicking Fox, Sony and DC's ass. Yeah they changed a lot of stuff but nothing to the level of Mystique the X-Men female lead and Xavier's adoptive sister.
    SO Marvel can veer form the source and folks still go see the movies.

    Yet Michael B Jordan gets death threats over FF for not respecting the source material. A thing so many Marvel films have done.

    With the main folks crying comic book fans who could all stay home and it wouldn't hurt these films. Even the bomb FF was-not one noncomic book fan went off on Jordan being in the film. They were able to point out all the other flaws that comic book fans missed because trolling an actor was more important than the actual facts.

    It's not that Marvel can do no wrong-it's they are tossing out movies who would NOT get shots if Marvel had the X-Men to hold the company hostage.

    Like Dc has been with Batman & Superman. Yes they made money but you can only go down that well so many times. Sad it took Wonder Woman to prove this. Especially since Blade proved it 20 years ago.

  2. #47
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    So basically of you use a popular character you are screwed? People also claim marvel takes risks by using unknown characters but going off this it's more of a risk to use well known characters

  3. #48
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    How exactly did Snyder fail with Superman? Because he's not Mr Smiles like your previous Reeve Superman? I bet you think Ant Man was a perfect adaption in marvel

  4. #49
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    When people realise that the MCU is just another universe within the larger MU, they will be happy with changes.

    I also want to say this about the MCU characters vs the DCEU characters (save for Wonder Woman). The DCEU characters have not been built up at all. They've been deconstructed based on their comic book counterparts, rather than their film version being constructed first BEFORE deconstruction. Why should I care about why Batman doesn't see the good in people anymore and kills/is extremely violent and reckless because Robin died when I never saw who he was before and how he actually reacted to Robin's death? Why should I feel anything when Superman croaks "Save Martha!" when I've barely seen this Batman's relationship with his mother except for a flashback of her death and one other dream sequence of Bruce visiting her grave? Why should I care that Superman sacrificed himself to save humanity when first movie does half a decent job of showing that he cares and by his second movie he's already condemning it? People love to throw this idea around that Cap freezing when Crossbones mentioning Bucky's name in Civil War is the same thing as the Martha moment, or the fact that Bucky's programming practically became undone when Cap says "Cause I'm with you till the end of the line" in The Winter Soldier is the same thing as the Martha moment except we had two whole movies explaining how much Bucky means to Steve before Civil War and a whole movie before TWS. BvS did not have that. Man of Steel, while a decent start, was not enough to jump right ahead into BvS especially with all the shit they threw at it with only one half developed character (two if you count Lois) and other characters and elements that needed to be developed, which took away from the characters that matter.

    You want to know why Wonder Woman is different though (as well as a majority of the MCU characters)? Sure it has to do with the fact that she's a woman and she's seen as a triumph. But really, it's because Patty Jenkins and Gal Gadot gave you this character that even though has these superhuman abilities and is practically a goddess, she's still very much a human being that falls in love and cares about people. There are these little ways that Patty showed that which separates her from Batman and Superman, where Zack Snyder took too much of a mythic approach to their characterization. Wonder Woman felt so damn heroic and inspiring. Batman and Superman don't inspire me to be anything. Except to be depressed, and I really don't need them to do that for me.

    And while I can see the faults in some of the MCU films, I'm frankly tired of this "The MCU is formulaic/generic" 'complaint' because I just don't see it anymore, each one has a different feel to me, and the X-Men movies exist for crying out loud (love some of them though). Are you going to tell me Doctor Strange is more formulaic than the extremely forgettable X-Men: Apocalypse? People love to say the MCU doesn't take risks like Logan (which still has a lot of story beats from Origins and The Wolverine) or Deadpool (which is really just an R-rated version of the so-called MCU formula) yet it's not like those two movies made general audiences care any much more about the X-Men continuity as a whole. Maybe people should just figure it out that the MCU unlike other CBM franchises is looking at the bigger picture, it's not trying to end anytime soon and Logan's and Deadpool's (and TDK trilogy tbh) praise also comes from the fact they were exactly what the characters needed: We needed a raging, bloody Wolvering and a 4th- wall breaking Deadpool (and a dark, gritty Batman). The MCU can't been seen as groundbreaking in that same regard when they have nothing to reinvent.
    Last edited by Blind Wedjat; 06-25-2017 at 07:13 PM.

  5. #50
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    Do you hate basically any movie that has an ounce of drama? Ever CW the characters just moped around. Guess what not everyone likes characters just blindly brushing off problems and smiling everything off.

    Again tell me what character do characters like Falcon it Vision have.

  6. #51
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    Or:

    Why do people care so much?

    I like what I like.

    -Pav, who has had a few drinks this evening...
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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    Do you hate basically any movie that has an ounce of drama? Ever CW the characters just moped around. Guess what not everyone likes characters just blindly brushing off problems and smiling everything off.

    Again tell me what character do characters like Falcon it Vision have.
    I personally think Civil War had a ton of drama. The only time comedy enters that movie is when Spidey and Ant-Man enter the picture (which makes sense) The entire movie is dramatic throughout that.
    Last edited by Conn Seanery; 06-28-2017 at 05:08 PM.

  8. #53
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    Yes because five minutes with Bucky in TFA is totally enough. Even though I liked Winter Soldier I didn't care for Bucky Barnes that much because he was only in TFA for five minutes and the Bucky thing just comes out of nowhere and feels out of character and never effects Cap again versus Batman who they set up is mentally broken and unstable. Hell he was more angry at Superman for saying save Martha. That's another thing he didn't freeze because just Martha but that this alien out of nowhere said to save his Mother. Cap knows Crossbones worked with Bucky yet acts shocked when he somehow knew him. Do we really need ANOTHER Batman origin?

    Why should I care about Stark's daddy and mommy issue when we NEVER see him interact with them? Why should I care about Widow's past when we NEVER see it? Why should I care about Wanda and Pietro losing her parents when we NEVER see them with them? Why should I care about Ant Man when we NEVER see him rob a huge company and only get one scene with his daughter? I bet you're perfectly fine with them

    No Batman and Superman are not deconstructions. They do represent the characters in my eyes and very well

    You know why Doctor Strange is formulaic? Take away the magic it's just Iron Man again. Like marvel movies rely on their gimmick. Even the fights themselves in Doctor Strange weren't impressive and was more the cgi backgrounds and chases that were impressive the fighting was fairly bland and too close

    Let's see with Dr Strange

    Generic bad guy with weird face who wants supreme power? Check

    Using an infinity stone to achieve said power? Check

    Somewhat quippy humor and dialogue? Check

    I'll about the movie had times of uniqueness like the finale or ghost fight but for the most part it's the same as Iron Man. Even Strange is just Iron Man 2.0 ignoring origins

    That's the issue. The mcu is more about the universe rather than individual movies. The universe effects movies instead of the other way around. Say what you want about dc their movies effect the universe

  9. #54
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    Nobody thinks less of you for liking Snyder's movies. Honest. Lots of people liked them. You don't have to try and talk people into thinking that the Marvel movies they liked were actually bad, and you're never going to do it anyway.

    But yes, we might be perfectly fine with a device in one movie when we don't think it works in another movie. That's because there are no rules except "do what works."

  10. #55
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    Also what about Spiderman? He didn't get an origin. We never see him interact with uncle Ben. We don't know what this iteration of Spiderman was like with Uncle Ben our why he became Spiderman

  11. #56
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    My issue is that people will give marvel a pass for things other companies do

    Example this one guy says the issue with Batman is we don't see his relationship with Robin or his downfall yet is fine with Stark losing it despite the fact we never see him with Howard or Maria or that Wanda seemed to completely forget her family is dead

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    Do you hate basically any movie that has an ounce of drama? Ever CW the characters just moped around. Guess what not everyone likes characters just blindly brushing off problems and smiling everything off.

    Again tell me what character do characters like Falcon it Vision have.
    Falcon is ex military who retired due to suffering PTSD from his friend being killed in front of him and decided to help other vets with their PTSD. He helps people wherever he can, and found another way to help people after befriending Cap.

    Vision is an android. Who is discovering himself.

    Don't get how it wasn't obvious.

  13. #58
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    oh wow what interesting ideas that are never explored. Like seriously I kinda forgot about Sam having PTSD and losing his wing man I mean he doesn't seem hesitant on using his wings again

    Vision claims the mind stone controls him more every day but we don't see anything of that

    Also going off what Blind Wedjet thinks if we didn't see it it don't count

  14. #59
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    People don't think the MCU can do no wrong, it's the simple fact that MCU movies more than often turn out good, and they've never released something like X-Men Origins, or done things like have Pa Kent tell his son he should've let children drown, so they're more in the public's good graces.
    And at the very least when the MCU diverges from the source material it doesn't act like it's embarrassed of its comic book roots.
    It is not hard to understand.

  15. #60
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    not embarrassed? Yeah that's why they mocked the comic Captain America look and change pretty much everything about the Guardians and Ant man

    Also Jonathan didn't say he should've let them die he said maybe he should've let things happen. Jonathan is just confused and doesn't know what to do with Clark. He wants him to help people but he isn't ready and will scare people

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