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  1. #46
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    I'm still wondering what exactly was the point of Arkham Manor, Bruce going broke and what happened to Jason Bard and Falcone who were introduced to so much fan fare. Atleast the Corrigan and Catwoman plots ended up getting critically acclaimed books. But overall thinking about it I'm just shocked at how Snyder regards it so less. Hush is back to looking like Bruce,Snyder has his own hierchy for the Gotham underworld in blatant disregard of what Catwoman established. He used Julia for a while but she disappeared too while thestatus of the mansion and the company were just casually handwaved. Removing both Eternals actually makes it easier to restore the Pre Flashpoint continuity too. They already ignore them as it is,King didn't bother with B&R Eternal's Bane subplot either.

  2. #47
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkseidpwns View Post
    I'm still wondering what exactly was the point of Arkham Manor, Bruce going broke and what happened to Jason Bard and Falcone who were introduced to so much fan fare. Atleast the Corrigan and Catwoman plots ended up getting critically acclaimed books. But overall thinking about it I'm just shocked at how Snyder regards it so less. Hush is back to looking like Bruce,Snyder has his own hierchy for the Gotham underworld in blatant disregard of what Catwoman established. He used Julia for a while but she disappeared too while thestatus of the mansion and the company were just casually handwaved. Removing both Eternals actually makes it easier to restore the Pre Flashpoint continuity too. They already ignore them as it is,King didn't bother with B&R Eternal's Bane subplot either.
    Well, I am also sad that Jason Bard hasn't shown up anywhere else, and that Snyder refuses to play well with others - even things he helped set up. However, I think that the Arkham Manor and company thing wasn't handwaved - JT4 gave it a whole annual to explain what was going on with that. (Speaking of which, I hope Snyder is using Powers corp and Geri Powers in Metal. Otherwise, that was a lot of wasted space in Superheavy).
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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Well, I am also sad that Jason Bard hasn't shown up anywhere else, and that Snyder refuses to play well with others - even things he helped set up. However, I think that the Arkham Manor and company thing wasn't handwaved - JT4 gave it a whole annual to explain what was going on with that. (Speaking of which, I hope Snyder is using Powers corp and Geri Powers in Metal. Otherwise, that was a lot of wasted space in Superheavy).
    Maybe they could re-establish Bard as a love interest for Babs rather then go through Babs dating boy after boy or re-establishing the romance with Dick for the umpteenth time...

    Of course, I realize that wouldn't make any sense in the context of Eternal, but still .

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Well, I am also sad that Jason Bard hasn't shown up anywhere else, and that Snyder refuses to play well with others - even things he helped set up. However, I think that the Arkham Manor and company thing wasn't handwaved - JT4 gave it a whole annual to explain what was going on with that. (Speaking of which, I hope Snyder is using Powers corp and Geri Powers in Metal. Otherwise, that was a lot of wasted space in Superheavy).
    Batman Rebirth 1 handwaved the company back in to Bruce's ownership, as for the house, yeah Tynion wrote Annual #4 but I consider even that to be a handwave. Bruce didn't fight for them, he didn't earn them, in each case they were handed back to him.

  5. #50
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Maybe they could re-establish Bard as a love interest for Babs rather then go through Babs dating boy after boy or re-establishing the romance with Dick for the umpteenth time...

    Of course, I realize that wouldn't make any sense in the context of Eternal, but still .
    You are evil! Why would you encourage Babs hooking up with MORE dudes? She needs to quit that and stick with one (if she has to be with anyone) for at least two arcs, or a full year, so we can demonstrate that the book is more than love interest of the arc. I mean, Nightwing is with Shawn for at least two and a half arcs, which would be a year if it weren't double shipping.

    Also, I really want Bard to be with Vicki Vale, because that would help out with getting her back into stories, too. I like both of them in Eternal quite a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkseidpwns View Post
    Batman Rebirth 1 handwaved the company back in to Bruce's ownership, as for the house, yeah Tynion wrote Annual #4 but I consider even that to be a handwave. Bruce didn't fight for them, he didn't earn them, in each case they were handed back to him.
    I agree that Rebirth handwaved the company, though that also was part of Tynion's Annual. I don't think you can call someone actually doing something in an entire issue devoted to actually changing the status quo handwaving. Handwaving is what they do in the Rebirth issue, where they have a person walk on, say the status quo has changed, and walk off. (Also, Bruce totally fought the villains in the Annual for his house. )
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  6. #51
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBatmanFan05 View Post
    Eh, maybe a semantical point. I disagree. DC treated them more like events, with checklists and numbering and all, all built around some shocking development to Batman's world (which IMHO New 52 did not do, wasn't built around Batman breaking his back or dying or killing Joker, New 52 was built on events outside of Batman's orbit (that you didn't even know happened until Rebirth), it was a reboot more than anything).
    Yeah, I still remember the advertising slogans drawing people in. The whole 'Batman is going where he's never gone before.... Away!' The countdown clock/symbol in the corner... it was totally and event.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ted_Kord View Post
    This is a random question but has Bruce ever beaten Bane in combat? I heard of a story called Legacy but I've never read it. I know it has something to do with Bane though.
    I think a better question would be "Has Batman ever LOST to Bane again?" I know he beat Bane with Venom.. I know he beat him without venom... I really don't remember another rematch that was actually a threat. The first fight he was sick, broken and exhausted when Bane sucker punched him... but on even terms I don't recall Bane ever being a real threat.


    Which is one of my major complaints about Knightfall. Bane was drastically overrated. Anyways.. back to the Review portion


    The Fire Rises

    I don't agree with this part. I LOVED the individual battles. This was near the beginning of my collecting and my return to Batman... and there was something glorious about seeing this gauntlet of the classic rogues I barely remembered... and new rogues I was getting introduced to. Killer Croc, Ventriloquist, Zaszz were all new to me at the time and these were really cool introductions. Now days I'm sure it would have wrapped up everything in 3 issues and the series would have been much less memorable.

    Bane Discovers Batman Is Bruce Wayne

    Oh my gosh I HATED that... It's still the weakest part of the whole event to me. Just glancing at bruce reveals his most secrets?!? Bull crap! A BETTER way would have been to slap a camera on that hawk or watch him through the spyglasses or whatever because at that point Bruce was at wits end and had stopped being as cautious as he should have been. Bane COULD have figured out his ID with a bit more skill or cleverness... but just looking at him and deducing?? Soooo Lame.

    Bane Breaks Batman’s Back

    I remember being disappointed that an exhausted weakened Batman didn't put up a better fight. I mean, losing was preordained (though I'm not sure I realized that at the time), I still would have rather Bane worked for it. The whole thing just reminded me of a bad wrestling match where two or three people would race the ring, smack the hero with metal chairs and the villain quickly pins him and then brags about how awesome he is.

    Yeah, end result he beat the batman and stole Gotham... but it was a LAME plan. What would have happened if Two Face had gotten the kill shot or Scarecrow?? WAY too many variable to be considered a super-genius or anything. The gauntlet was fine if the goal was a dead batman... but for the plan of HIM beating the Bat.... There was a lot of writer fiat involved.


    Gang Warfare

    For a new kid getting into these books, the original setup was perfect. I wasn't lost at all dealing with the gotham cops I didn't know, the new Robin, The new rogues... the books introduced them great...

    Bane and Azrael though? For such major parts of the story, they really seemed to come out of left field. I wish they introduced and explained a bit more about them.... or had them more established before these major changes. Same with Doomsday. There's just something about these rookies coming in and stealing the big prize. Not Joker or two-face... not Lex Luthor... just a couple of bruisers that nobody heard of.


    The Rise Of Azarael

    I loved the Robin parts in this book Really made Tim one of my favorite. Seeing Robin trying to rein in the new Batman was awesome.

    Azrael vs Bane

    Again, much like the Bruce vs. Bane fight... I wasn't that impressed. It seemed to want to be about THIS Batman did what Bruce couldn't!!! When to me it was 'A fully rested Azrael is better than an end of gauntlet sick, broken, disabled Bruce wayne'... Which just seemed obvious.


    The Verdict


    This is one of my favorite Batman stories. I don't see how new readers would have much trouble, as I was a new reader when I read it. A little continuity issues but over all it was pretty self-explanatory. It really tried (and succeeded) in showing what makes Bruce Wayne, Batman and anyone else is just wearing a batman costume.

  7. #52
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    My Knightquest review is up now.

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  8. #53
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deffinition View Post
    My Knightquest review is up now.

    Link Below

    Batman Knightquest Graphic Novel Review

    Cheers
    That's one I did NOT read when it came out. With Bruce gone and Tim banished I grew bored of Azbats REALLY fast. I didn't come back till Knightsend which I also loved. That one however did seem to stretch a bit with Bruces training.

    The TPB looks like it's just Azbats... did Bruce's half of Knightquest story every get collected?

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    That's one I did NOT read when it came out. With Bruce gone and Tim banished I grew bored of Azbats REALLY fast. I didn't come back till Knightsend which I also loved. That one however did seem to stretch a bit with Bruces training.

    The TPB looks like it's just Azbats... did Bruce's half of Knightquest story every get collected?
    No, but it's due to be included in the upcoming Knightquest Omnibus due in October.

  10. #55
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    I started reading the Knightfall Omnibus today and I'm at Batman #485. Funny reading it and seeing Bruce Wayne go undercover in Black Mask's gang, as he seemingly dyes his hair blonde. For a minute I was wondering if this was suddenly Azrael lol.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by zep81 View Post
    I started reading the Knightfall Omnibus today and I'm at Batman #485. Funny reading it and seeing Bruce Wayne go undercover in Black Mask's gang, as he seemingly dyes his hair blonde. For a minute I was wondering if this was suddenly Azrael lol.
    I thought the same thing every time I read it
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  12. #57
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    After starting to make my way through the Knightfall omnibus; I would say it's pretty imperative that people who want to read this story, make sure they also read all the prequel issues too TBH. There are so many things that help massively when you finally get to the Arkham breakout issue.

    The continuing deterioration of Bruce. Dr. Kinsolving. Bane. Azrael. All these elements are as important as the main story IMHO. Plus, reading Sword Of Azrael and i'd say Venom too, as Batman does mention in a couple of pages in Knightfall, his own experience with the drug.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by zep81 View Post
    After starting to make my way through the Knightfall omnibus; I would say it's pretty imperative that people who want to read this story, make sure they also read all the prequel issues too TBH. There are so many things that help massively when you finally get to the Arkham breakout issue.

    The continuing deterioration of Bruce. Dr. Kinsolving. Bane. Azrael. All these elements are as important as the main story IMHO. Plus, reading Sword Of Azrael and i'd say Venom too, as Batman does mention in a couple of pages in Knightfall, his own experience with the drug.
    That was always my biggest qualm with the 2012 edition of Volume 1; excluding the prequel issues but including the Bane one-shot. Adding Venom might be a bit too far out though as it was a few years older. I did a 3-part video review of the Omnibus on my instagram going over the pro's of the Omnibus Vol 1 HC edition. If they added Sword of Azrael in it would have really made it perfect (yea, I know seeing as I'm an Azrael fan that may seem biased) but my reasoning is that when you just start it off with Part 1 of the 19/20 of the Knightfall issues, it ends up this thing where every now and then you get a few frames of Jean Paul working out, and then in this mysterious black ninja costume with Dick and that's it. The saving grace with the Omnibus is that those prequel issues are there which have that section of Bruce telling Tim who Jean Paul is and why it's important that he's taking him under their wing. You see Jean Paul being trained and you get to watch Bruce be taken down and get exhausted leading things getting even worse once Bane stages the Arkham breakout.
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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzraelOnline View Post
    That was always my biggest qualm with the 2012 edition of Volume 1; excluding the prequel issues but including the Bane one-shot. Adding Venom might be a bit too far out though as it was a few years older. I did a 3-part video review of the Omnibus on my instagram going over the pro's of the Omnibus Vol 1 HC edition. If they added Sword of Azrael in it would have really made it perfect (yea, I know seeing as I'm an Azrael fan that may seem biased) but my reasoning is that when you just start it off with Part 1 of the 19/20 of the Knightfall issues, it ends up this thing where every now and then you get a few frames of Jean Paul working out, and then in this mysterious black ninja costume with Dick and that's it. The saving grace with the Omnibus is that those prequel issues are there which have that section of Bruce telling Tim who Jean Paul is and why it's important that he's taking him under their wing. You see Jean Paul being trained and you get to watch Bruce be taken down and get exhausted leading things getting even worse once Bane stages the Arkham breakout.
    You have a link to the review?

    Plus, in the prequel comics you had all the stuff with Bane/Croc and Bane/Riddler and how it all involved Batman too. All of which was mentioned and acknowledged in the main issues of Knightfall. Sword Of Azrael is a must read IMO if anyone is to go onto read Knightfall.

  15. #60
    Spectacular Member AzraelOnline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zep81 View Post
    You have a link to the review?

    Plus, in the prequel comics you had all the stuff with Bane/Croc and Bane/Riddler and how it all involved Batman too. All of which was mentioned and acknowledged in the main issues of Knightfall. Sword Of Azrael is a must read IMO if anyone is to go onto read Knightfall.
    I'll dig up my written one when I get home and copy paste it.
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