The Flash #25 Preview

[Frontier]

I do think part of the appeal of The Flash and Reverse-Flash's rivalry is that they're equals in as much as their opposites, but I don't think Thawne manhnadling Barry this issue is an indicator that their final fight will go that way either (and maybe Thawne has a hidden boost we don't know about with the negative Speed Force).

[FlashEarthOne]

I do think part of the appeal of The Flash and Reverse-Flash's rivalry is that they're equals in as much as their opposites, but I don't think Thawne manhnadling Barry this issue is an indicator that their final fight will go that way either (and maybe Thawne has a hidden boost we don't know about with the negative Speed Force).

I agree... part of my issue is that they aren't even hinting why Thawne is so sure that he is faster. Does Barry not really know how fast he is? Thawne's negative speed force does need the Speed Force for energy. Since they are both the source of each other's equivalent speed force... how exactly is Thawne faster? I am rarely a fan of characters that are supposed to be the best at their specific power. The exceptions are The Flash as the fastest and in Marvel the Hulk as the strongest. I like the mid-level and street level heroes/villains more often than not. In this case I like the Flash because he is supposed to be the fastest... take that away and it takes away from the character IMO because that is a big part of who he is (once again a singular power unlike others.) I like Superman because of his relationship with the Justice League. I've never been a fan of Superman singularly because he is close to being that hero who has ALL the powers. Even many of his more zealous fans need him to be the "bestest at everything."

I do very much hope you are right about the final fight of this arc. This issue felt a lot like the4 (but worse) beatdowns than Barry took at the hands of any of the three bid bads of the tv show. It could be a deal breaker for me until I see the outcome of Rebirth next year.

[ZoomZolomonZoom]

Barry is a helpless wimp who gets the **** beaten out of him yet again, of course. Massive eye roll

Seriously, has there been a single fight in the last decade Barry has won against the Reverse-Flash? How can you even call these two rivals when there win-lose streak is so skewed in one direction? As if retconning Barry's entire history into something horrid wasn't enough the writers at DC also need to deprive him of any chance for revenge or success? I feel like that is infinitely more diabolical than anything I've ever read in comics. Like Dean Winchester said in Supernatural: "You call that mercy? Imagine you spend your whole life huntin' down the guy that knifed your father. When you finally find him, he whips you like a dog. How do you think that feels? That kid's gonna spend his whole life knowing that he had his shot and that he couldn't beat me." The parallels that can be drawn to Barry Allen failing to stop Thawne is disturbing.

But seriously, this BS is making me start to actually hate the character. I really hope Thawne has some serious ass kicking FROM Barry and the Flash Family finally coming to him because this type of hopeless injustice is not something I'm going to go out of my way to read, especially not in a Flash comic which is supposed to be wacky and otherworldy.

[FlashEarthOne]

Barry is a helpless wimp who gets the **** beaten out of him yet again, of course. Massive eye roll

Seriously, has there been a single fight in the last decade Barry has won against the Reverse-Flash? How can you even call these two rivals when there win-lose streak is so skewed in one direction? As if retconning Barry's entire history into something horrid wasn't enough the writers at DC also need to deprive him of any chance for revenge or success? I feel like that is infinitely more diabolical than anything I've ever read in comics. Like Dean Winchester said in Supernatural: "You call that mercy? Imagine you spend your whole life huntin' down the guy that knifed your father. When you finally find him, he whips you like a dog. How do you think that feels? That kid's gonna spend his whole life knowing that he had his shot and that he couldn't beat me." The parallels that can be drawn to Barry Allen failing to stop Thawne is disturbing.

But seriously, this BS is making me start to actually hate the character. I really hope Thawne has some serious ass kicking FROM Barry and the Flash Family finally coming to him because this type of hopeless injustice is not something I'm going to go out of my way to read, especially not in a Flash comic which is supposed to be wacky and otherworldy.

Put more bluntly that I did... but I agree nonetheless. Not about hating Barry but issues like this make me care less for all the reasons that you mentioned.

[ZoomZolomonZoom]

Put more bluntly that I did... but I agree nonetheless. Not about hating Barry but issues like this make me care less for all the reasons that you mentioned.

Oh, I didn't mean to say I hated Barry. Sorry if it came off that way! I don't think I could ever hate Barry or any in the Flash Family. I meant that I'm starting to hate Eobard. The fact he's such a petty and childish dick with invincible plot armor and random unbeatable deus ex machinas left and right is annoying AF.

Think about it like this. Hunter Zolomon was really powerful, way more powerful than Wally was. But guess what? He still lost because The Flash was competent and exploited the weaknesses in his abilities and emotional flaws. That's why Blitz was such a great story, it knew had to make a scary villain but still have The Flash (the guy we're reading about) win in the end. These Thawne stories just have him win and get everything he wants, leaving Barry more broken and hopeless than ever every time.

[FlashEarthOne]

Oh, I didn't mean to say I hated Barry. Sorry if it came off that way! I don't think I could ever hate Barry or any in the Flash Family. I meant that I'm starting to hate Eobard. The fact he's such a petty and childish dick with invincible plot armor and random unbeatable deus ex machinas left and right is annoying AF.

Nah... I realized after I typed that you were talking about Thawne. Haha. I'm glad that I'm not the only tired of these one sided Speedster beatings that Barry is getting. The bolded half of your sentence is most annoying of all. He is 1/4 character...3/4 plot device.

[ZoomZolomonZoom]

On a more positive note though, I really like Eobard's new origin! The Return of Barry Allen, despite being a great story, did always give Thawne kind of a wacky reason for hating Barry and had a lot of confusing time travel in it. Not to gonna lie, I also didn't dig how Wally pretty much defined the origins for Barry's reverse-flash. This new origin is a lot slicker, simplified and in my opinion makes Eobard's hatred more sympathetic.

If they just got rid of the dead parent BS, made their power levels more even, I would be really excited to see this rivalry unfold. Hell, part of me still kind of is despite those drawbacks.

[Qwerty]

While I find the way how Thawne went crazy too forced for its own good (I wish that Williamson wouldn't have tried to justify his actions since it just makes them sillier), I still really liked this one due to the amount of fanservice. I love how Williamson respects everything that happened before by referencing it (even the not so good aspects like Thawne's New 52 appearance).

Solid art too.

He didn't go crazy he was crazy. I don't know the term for it but he was already doing despicable things and risking lives so he could be percieved as a hero. He would have been the same had he chose to focus his mania on Batman or Superman and whitnessed them with one of the Robins' or Jimmy Olsen

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

The scene where Eobard observes Barry and Wally together makes no sense. He comes in on a scene of Barry fighting Heatwave and Captain Cold and then, what, stalks him to Wally's graduation ceremony?? It makes no sense.

Also, CBR got it wrong. Eobard being a Barry fanboy and replicating the accident that created the Flash has been his origin for a long time.

[Qwerty]

The scene where Eobard observes Barry and Wally together makes no sense. He comes in on a scene of Barry fighting Heatwave and Captain Cold and then, what, stalks him to Wally's graduation ceremony?? It makes no sense.

Also, CBR got it wrong. Eobard being a Barry fanboy and replicating the accident that created the Flash has been his origin for a long time.

Maybe it would make sense if you were crazy

[Frontier]

The scene where Eobard observes Barry and Wally together makes no sense. He comes in on a scene of Barry fighting Heatwave and Captain Cold and then, what, stalks him to Wally's graduation ceremony?? It makes no sense.

Also, CBR got it wrong. Eobard being a Barry fanboy and replicating the accident that created the Flash has been his origin for a long time.

That makes perfect sense for Thawne given how obsessed he is with Barry, and then how obsessed he became with Barry treating Wally how he wanted to solely be treated.

Barry is a helpless wimp who gets the **** beaten out of him yet again, of course. Massive eye roll

Seriously, has there been a single fight in the last decade Barry has won against the Reverse-Flash? How can you even call these two rivals when there win-lose streak is so skewed in one direction? As if retconning Barry's entire history into something horrid wasn't enough the writers at DC also need to deprive him of any chance for revenge or success? I feel like that is infinitely more diabolical than anything I've ever read in comics. Like Dean Winchester said in Supernatural: "You call that mercy? Imagine you spend your whole life huntin' down the guy that knifed your father. When you finally find him, he whips you like a dog. How do you think that feels? That kid's gonna spend his whole life knowing that he had his shot and that he couldn't beat me." The parallels that can be drawn to Barry Allen failing to stop Thawne is disturbing.

But seriously, this BS is making me start to actually hate the character. I really hope Thawne has some serious ass kicking FROM Barry and the Flash Family finally coming to him because this type of hopeless injustice is not something I'm going to go out of my way to read, especially not in a Flash comic which is supposed to be wacky and otherworldy.

I recall he pretty decisively defeated New 52 Reverse-Flash (the Thawne version) by the end of his arc.

[FlashEarthOne]

On a more positive note though, I really like Eobard's new origin! The Return of Barry Allen, despite being a great story, did always give Thawne kind of a wacky reason for hating Barry and had a lot of confusing time travel in it. Not to gonna lie, I also didn't dig how Wally pretty much defined the origins for Barry's reverse-flash. This new origin is a lot slicker, simplified and in my opinion makes Eobard's hatred more sympathetic.

If they just got rid of the dead parent BS, made their power levels more even, I would be really excited to see this rivalry unfold.

Apparently with these new origins he is also at least ten times more powerful than he was in the Return of Barry Allen storyline.

[FlashEarthOne]

That makes perfect sense for Thawne given how obsessed he is with Barry, and then how obsessed he became with Barry treating Wally how he wanted to solely be treated.


I recall he pretty decisively defeated New 52 Reverse-Flash (the Thawne version) by the end of his arc.

He did but it took a while and that Thawne was nothing at all like this Thawne.

[Frontier]

He did but it took a while and that Thawne was nothing at all like this Thawne.

Still, he did it .

[FlashEarthOne]

Still, he did it .

True... after a re-read I'm hoping and am inclined to believe that Thawne is at full strength because his memories are intact while Barry's memories are not and his powers are not at the level that they were at Flashpoint because of that knowledge. Perhaps I am just being hopeful.