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  1. #31
    "Comics journalism"? Filthy Mutie's Avatar
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    It's not that change is bad, but they just went about executing it in really haphazard ways.

    I don't want to drag a dead horse out to beat and derail the thread, but an example would be how they mangled the Inhumans to make them the new mutants, which didn't suit either (and their fans) well. Needless, sullied the fans, and ended-up failing and being walked-back after they kept doubling-down.

    Another would be benching so many of their hallmark characters - currently being heavily featured in movies, mind you - for teenage replacements, very quickly. Marvel's takeaway was "people don't want diversity", which was absolutely incorrect; the problem was that they introduced all of these teens (in their new roles, like X-23 and A. Cho) all at once while simultaneously killing - either medically or via character assassination - the long-time favorites. ("People" are also just getting bored with a mostly creatively-bankrupt Marvel and buying less of their stuff.)

    Nothing means anything anymore, because editors aren't interested in coordinating, making everything inconsistent, and characters are commonly getting killed and sometimes getting replaced. Meanwhile, the status quo of the world changes too frequently - before we can even understand what the status quo is, and what the stories are, we get a "new earth-shattering epic event that changes everything as we know it".

    I'm all for the world developing, characters growing, rosters changing, etc., but I'd just preferred they went about it in the interest of telling good, well-written stories that will stand the test of time and not hurdling from one editorial mandate/bad story idea for quick cash infusions to another.

  2. #32
    I hate Christmas Matternativ's Avatar
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    No I am against an actual Reboot.
    They could have given ANAD more of a theme or direction though. Not much really happened between Secret Wars and Civil War II.

    It did give some really cool books room to do whatever they wanted though.
    "̶l̶̶e̶̶t̶'̶s̶̶ ̶̶h̶̶a̶̶v̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶o̶̶m̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶u̶̶n̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶b̶̶e̶̶a̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶.̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶a̶̶n̶̶n̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶a̶̶k̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶r̶̶i̶̶d̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶o̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶d̶̶i̶̶s̶̶c̶̶o̶̶s̶̶t̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶"
    "Let's have some fun, this riff is sick. I wanna mosh around in the Circle Pit!"

    Matt's Stuff [Blog]: Fire Emblem Three Houses Campaigns & Characters - R A N K E D

  3. #33
    Fantastic Member TheSeaDragon's Avatar
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    what i miss the most is when you could say you didnt like certain character without being called racist

  4. #34
    Astonishing Member Ianbarreilles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSeaDragon View Post
    what i miss the most is when you could say you didnt like certain character without being called racist
    No ones being called a racist for liking wolverine, or Peter Parker/spider-man or Thor odinson, or Bruce banner/hulk or hawkeye/Clint Barton or even Tony stark/iron man.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Xalfrea's Avatar
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    While obviously not to the same level as racism, there was one time on another comic site (not this one), where after I proudly declared that Marvel is my favorite comic company, Ms. Marvel was my favorite superhero and I only buy her related books, I had one or two snide comments thrown at me that I wasn't a true Marvel fan because I wasn't buying the "real" heroes like Cap, IM, Thor, Spidey, etc, that I was buying some cheap, gimmicky, PC flavor of the week, and that I was an SJW.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianbarreilles View Post
    I had and still have invested interest in seeing the stories continue and the history to remain intact and see my favorite characters continue to develop and grow so for me a reboot is a terrible idea.
    Agreed. I've loved watching Kitty Pryde's growth over the years. It's been deeply satisfying to watch. Resetting her back to square one would make her a much less interesting character to me. She'd no longer be the same Kitty Pryde I fell in love with. Same with so many other characters. I never bothered with the Ultimate Universe because the characters weren't the ones I'd watched grow. They had the same names, but they weren't the same characters.

    Characters being reset back to zero is one of my biggest problems with Marvel as it is. Having all characters reset and losing every single bit of growth they've ever had? To hell with that.

  7. #37
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy Mutie View Post
    Yes, definitely. Thank you!
    No prob.

    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy Mutie View Post
    I think Secret War was too convoluted to be an effective soft reboot, if that was the intention. There's a litany of changes sprinkled across things that did not change - some of those changes originating in alternate universes features in the miniseries that took place during the event, and there's no consistency or rule. Nothing means anything. It's just noise and somehow you need an even higher awareness of Marvel canon and continuity - such as it is.
    I guess I was thinking "soft reboot," since one could take pre-SW 616 Marvel, start reading post-SW 616 comics and it would make sense as one timeline overall. However, you got stuff like pre-SW, Miles didn't exist in 616, but post-SW, he was "aways" part of 616, which is a difference.

    To be totally honest, the only thing I read from Secret Wars was The Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows (which was extremely disconnected from the madness of the event by and large), so I'm going off of what what I've pieced together from the all-knowing Google. I did get the impression that SW was mostly meant as a way to send of the Fantastic Four, set up some new story hooks, and revisit and celebrate classic stories and eras from the past by revisiting them in new ways.

  8. #38
    Incredible Member megaharrison's Avatar
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    Marvel can only save itself by admitting the push to replace their popular characters with new and often obnoxiously political minority counterparts is a massive failure. Apologize to the real fans, bring back the real heroes, and start writing stories about superheroes doing comic book things instead of fighting vaguely defined neo-nazi's every other issue.

    Also stop the vindictive movie-inspired purges. Bring back FF and X-Men in their real incarnations.

  9. #39
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    i think they never should have told secret wars in the first place after seeing how the company has been run since it finished.
    The path the company took after SW is on management, not on what Hickman's story did. IMO if they were going to send the FF into limbo at least the characters got a very well done tribute out of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by JamJams View Post
    Marvel books go through soft-reboots every time they swap creative artists. Or as I like to call it "New Writer. New Lore." So even if they clean slated after Secret Wars things would already be changing as they shuffle around writers.

    Instead of being a Marvel-wide event it should have just been an Avengers-line event and ended as a temporary send-off for the Fantastic Four.
    Nope, it was always destined to be the conclusion to Hickman's Fantastic Four run. He had to leave the title before he was finished when Marvel put together that musical chairs things with writers switching titles after Bendis announced he was leaving the Avengers. Hickman simply continued some elements of the Fantastic Four in New Avengers.

  10. #40
    Astonishing Member Captain M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ţh€ €жţяą-๏яďɨɲąя Tycon View Post
    Ah. And your hate boner for a nine-year old grows.

    You seem triggered for something that's not even happening. I was obviously exaggerating a situation. Black Widow and Hawkeye would be founding Avengers and Moongirl would be even more involved with the Marvel Universe.

    There, happy?

    Why would I hate something that doesn't concern me lmao. I hate the idea of a second Wasp. Not Moongirl

  11. #41
    Mighty Member Valamist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by comicstar100 View Post
    I've got to be honest I thought Marvel was going full on reboot for the first time ever after 2015's Secret Wars, do you think Marvel should have? If so what would of been your ongoing titles for the reboot and who would of been your creative teams?
    Depends what you mean by reboot. I am totally against things like starting from scratch with a new continuity etc. so it would be a no from me...
    Marvel: - Avengers, Fantastic Four, The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl, Uncanny X-Men, X-23, Old Man Logan, Thor, Captain Marvel, Runaways, West Coast Avengers.
    Image: - Paper Girls.
    Dynamite: - Red Sonja

  12. #42
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    The Ultimate Universe was essentially marvels "reboot" for anyone interested in that sort of thing.

    But marvel isn't going to reboot the stuff Stan and Jack did.

  13. #43
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianbarreilles View Post
    I had and still have invested interest in seeing the stories continue and the history to remain intact and see my favorite characters continue to develop and grow so for me a reboot is a terrible idea.
    Pretty much. I am still invested in seeing how a bunch of characters continue to develop, and I don't want them put back to square one just because some don't like some of the more recent stories. I think any problems that may be present can be ironed out more locally.

  14. #44
    Extraordinary Member Bl00dwerK's Avatar
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    I say yes, but if they kept the current bunch of people in control of everything it might get even worse.

  15. #45
    Astonishing Member Xalfrea's Avatar
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    Just care about one book and character here, so if a reboot would've meant starting her story all over again, then no thanks.

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