Wonder woman #25 spoilers

[Mel Dyer]

One thing, in my opinion, that this run had to accomplish is to establish Cale as Wonder Woman's arch-enemy.

While I think Mr. Rucka invites us to do exactly that, the direct confrontation between Wonder Woman and Cale that Rucka need to seal the deal ..never materialized. With one or two scenes, this single issue might have elevated the entire run to something more memorable ..and still finished, with Diana bedding down Steve. It didn't carry it off.

Why not put Cale in the Cyber suit (or phantasm) and let her bang Diana around, a little - kick over some skyscrapers - before letting her slip away into the rubble, feigning innocence...with Diana seething in the ruins? He totally could have done it; even if the transformation was temporary or one-time only, ..it would have been a great closer. Oh, well...

[Bookem Danno]

Looking back on the run as a whole it falls short of satisfying.
Points made in this thread are right on the money as far as I'm concerned, and the ambition of the lies and the truth have not come to fruition at all.

At least Steve is still awesome!

So, the main story can be summed up in the old adage: "It's always in the last place you look."??!! Finding her lasso was such a weak, and somewhat vague, conclusion. To be honest, I didn't even remember her losing her rope and her demeanor towards Bruce and Kal was uncalled for. Hopefully Artemis or Hera is there next time Diana Prince misplaces her glasses to tell her to look atop her head. j/k. Etta and Cale's new subplots had no good tease to 'em either. However, the art was nice and the 2 minor stories were satisfying. One, WW single-handedly knocks down Shaggy Man and later she foreplayingly beds down shagging her man.

https://www.readdcentertainment.com/...T1635200255001
WW_Cv25_594032cf745892.90635234.jpg

[Bookem Danno]

Looking back on the run as a whole it falls short of satisfying.
Points made in this thread are right on the money as far as I'm concerned, and the ambition of the lies and the truth have not come to fruition at all. At least Steve is still awesome!

Yeah.

So, the main story can be summed up in the old adage: "It's always in the last place you look."??!! Finding her lasso was such a weak, and somewhat vague, conclusion. To be honest, I didn't even remember her losing her rope and her demeanor towards Bruce and Kal was uncalled for. Hopefully Artemis or Hera is there next time Diana Prince misplaces her glasses to tell her to look atop her head. j/k. Etta and Cale's new subplots had no good tease to 'em either. However, the art was nice and the 2 minor stories were satisfying. One, WW single-handedly knocks down Shaggy Man and later she foreplayingly beds down shagging her man.

https://www.readdcentertainment.com/...T1635200255001
WW_Cv25_594032cf745892.90635234.jpg

[Sacred Knight]

I can't help but wonder if some of these rush job conclusions have to do with Doomsday Clock coming up fast. Maybe he had to close things up with this tale quicker than he would have liked to? I dunno. I know Tomasi and Gleason over in Superman faced a similar edict by having a timetable in which they'd have to end Superman's adventures in Hamilton County. Maybe it has to do with the conclusion to the Rebirth initiative and needing certain characters in certain places when we get there.

[Lex Luthor]

Azzarello's work managed to do this, the issue is it had elements to it that offended long time readers. It was a story though that existed for itself, was easily accessible, and promised a new take on the character. Whereas the opposite is true on all these points for Rucka's work.



I don't mind that the book ends with most of the cast receiving 'bad endings.' I actually think it redeems the work actually.

Is Rucka's work not easily accessible? There's nothing a new reader would need to know going into it since he introduces every character.

I dont see how there could ever be any reconciled vision for these two groups since they want completely different things

[MajorHoy]

Is Rucka's work not easily accessible? There's nothing a new reader would need to know going into it since he introduces every character.

What about "Ferdinand" (the bull guy)?
In the Rebirth run, he shows up at one point but then doesn't seem to appear again?
I never read Rucka's previous Wonder Woman run; I had no idea who the character was, and I still have no clue as to what purpose he played in the Rebirth run.

So, the main story can be summed up in the old adage: "It's always in the last place you look."??!! Finding her lasso was such a weak, and somewhat vague, conclusion. To be honest, I didn't even remember her losing her rope . . .

Didn't that happen when she bound Ares sons and made them see the truth?

[NYCER]

This was not a great sendoff for Greg Rucka's second run on WONDER WOMAN. I've never cared for Veronica Cale and now I guess readers are stuck with her. Or maybe not.

Once again, Steve Trevor is written lifelessly. This is unfortunately further underscored and highlighted when the book version of Steve is compared to Chris Pine's Steve Trevor, who is so dynamic and absolutely fantastic.

And I don't even know what to think of the Patrons anymore and the lasso's sudden return. As mentioned above, the issue felt rushed, there were no clear resolutions to the premise of REBIRTH WONDER WOMAN as to what are the "lies" and "truths" in this iteration of the character, and consequently the book along with Rucka's run feel so unsatisfactory.

[NYCER]

So is this the first time all three members of the Trinity have been in relatively happy and stable relationships?

No. In The New 52, for an overlapping period of time Diana and Kal were in a relationship that was almost headed to marriage while Bruce was an amnesiac happy with Julie Madison.

[brettc1]

No. In The New 52, for an overlapping period of time Diana and Kal were in a relationship that was almost headed to marriage while Bruce was an amnesiac happy with Julie Madison.

I don't know as I would call the Wonder Woman/52Supermsn relationship as happy and stable. And considering she qualifies the relationship as "just friends" during the Darkseid War story in Justice League, I'm not convinced it was genuinely heading towards marriage either.

[Natamaxxx]

Is Rucka's work not easily accessible? There's nothing a new reader would need to know going into it since he introduces every character.

I dont see how there could ever be any reconciled vision for these two groups since they want completely different things

Disagree - "the Lies/Truth" were so vague as to what they actually were, you almost have to read the previous volume to understand it. Steve, Etta and Cale may have gotten a proper introduction, but who (aside from a long time reader) would know Sasha and Ferdinand, who are apparently supposed to be significant, yet don't really do much except show up.

Agree on the impossibility of true reconciliation among fans when it comes to her origin/parentage. It's probably the most hotly debated subject I have ever seen in all my years of loving this character and interacting with other fans (even more so than when they gave her pants!). There are as many "visions" for this character as there are readers and that will always be the case. And that is why I think the subject should not be revisited for a long time to come no matter how many fans are satisfied or dissatisfied with whatever her current origin may be (Still pretty vague, in my opinion). Of course I have my origination preferences too, but they are irrelevant.

What I really want is for the succeeding artistic teams take Diana's adventures into new directions that stay well away of her birth, whichever birth that may be. And that is why I'm somewhat apprehensive about this future storyline that will probably revisit the twin brother and Diana's "birth" yet again, 'cuz honestly, haven't we all had enough of this?

[CRaymond]

Disagree - "the Lies/Truth" were so vague as to what they actually were, you almost have to read the previous volume to understand it. Steve, Etta and Cale may have gotten a proper introduction, but who (aside from a long time reader) would know Sasha and Ferdinand, who are apparently supposed to be significant, yet don't really do much except show up.

Agree on the impossibility of true reconciliation among fans when it comes to her origin/parentage. It's probably the most hotly debated subject I have ever seen in all my years of loving this character and interacting with other fans (even more so than when they gave her pants!). There are as many "visions" for this character as there are readers and that will always be the case. And that is why I think the subject should not be revisited for a long time to come no matter how many fans are satisfied or dissatisfied with whatever her current origin may be (Still pretty vague, in my opinion). Of course I have my origination preferences too, but they are irrelevant.

What I really want is for the succeeding artistic teams take Diana's adventures into new directions that stay well away of her birth, whichever birth that may be. And that is why I'm somewhat apprehensive about this future storyline that will probably revisit the twin brother and Diana's "birth" yet again, 'cuz honestly, haven't we all had enough of this?

All of this. Every bit.

[brettc1]

For me it was worth every cent I paid to be able to walk into my LCS for the first time in half a decade and look forward to buying a Wonder Woman comic.

Have I read better stories in WW? Yes, most definitely. But again, IMO not for over five years.

Blood Orgy of the Amazons.

The Dastardly Hyena Orphan of Doom.

Sex, lies and vegetative injustice!

Suffering Sappho never suffered like this.

[SiegePerilous02]

No. In The New 52, for an overlapping period of time Diana and Kal were in a relationship that was almost headed to marriage while Bruce was an amnesiac happy with Julie Madison.

What little of the Superman/Wonder Woman series I read didn't paint the picture of a couple on the way to marriage. They seemed to be constantly trying to come up with reasons for why they should even be together in the first place. They had no romantic chemistry. The current romances of the Trinity (including Bruce and Selina) feel much more natural than the confused love lives from the New 52 period.

Disagree - "the Lies/Truth" were so vague as to what they actually were, you almost have to read the previous volume to understand it. Steve, Etta and Cale may have gotten a proper introduction, but who (aside from a long time reader) would know Sasha and Ferdinand, who are apparently supposed to be significant, yet don't really do much except show up.

The story doesn't require Sasha to be anybody except Etta's boss. Fans who know her from prior may appreciate it more, but I don't see how her presence would confuse new readers when she fulfills her function. Ferdinand I'll give you, but then again he just sort of appeared in the first run out of nowhere too. I actually have a non-comic reader friend who picked up the Rebirth WW trades and doesn't appear to be confused about what's going on yet. He knows the New 52 changes by reputation, but not much else.

I think the long time readers are creating confusion for themselves, because we read all these stories and are trying to make them fit together seamlessly when that's arguably not even a necessity. New readers? They just need to know some old stuff is gone now, and Year One/Godwatch are providing the in between stuff that matters going forward.

[gwangung]

The story doesn't require Sasha to be anybody except Etta's boss. Fans who know her from prior may appreciate it more, but I don't see how her presence would confuse new readers when she fulfills her function. Ferdinand I'll give you, but then again he just sort of appeared in the first run out of nowhere too. I actually have a non-comic reader friend who picked up the Rebirth WW trades and doesn't appear to be confused about what's going on yet. He knows the New 52 changes by reputation, but not much else.

I think the long time readers are creating confusion for themselves, because we read all these stories and are trying to make them fit together seamlessly when that's arguably not even a necessity. New readers? They just need to know some old stuff is gone now, and Year One/Godwatch are providing the in between stuff that matters going forward.

I think this is pretty true. We're so wrapped up in continuity and our deep knowledge of characters and stories that we aren't able to appreciate how stories work for people who don't have that knowledge. (And that drives away new readers, too....)

[PopQuezy]

I hope you all don't mind hearing from a new reader since the conversation has swung that way. As I mentioned in another thread, I'm new to Wonder Woman and comics in general. I came to Wonder Woman after the Rebirth initiative and Year One was announced. Year One seemed like a wonderful opportunity for me to jump into the Wonder Woman mythos as a new reader who previously had extremely limited knowledge of the character. (My only exposure to her was Superfriends, Justice League/JLU and her animated movie).

I though Year One was perfect and gave me all the foundational information I needed to understand Wonder Woman's world. I also thought Godwatch was excellent. As for the Lies/Truth, while I wouldn't say it was confusing or difficulty to comprehend - because it wasn't, I did find myself coming here in order to appreciate the Lies/Truth more. However, even without the additional research on my part, I understood Sasha was Etta's boss and Ferdinand was a friend from the past. It took coming her to find out why those two characters were important in the Wonderverse and DC verse as a whole, but even without coming here, I understood the basic functions of the characters and neither affected my understanding of the whole story.

I'll also say for the Lies/Truth, as someone who did not read New 52 - and honestly I doubt I ever will - I didn't find myself as engaged in those stories because I had no emotional stakes in them. Don't get me wrong, I cared about Diana and Steve - not so much Etta - and I cared that Diana could find the truth for herself. But what the lie or the truth itself was didn't really matter to me.

Lastly, I'll also say as a new reader, the question of her birth never came up to me. I assumed the lie was that she believed her the fake island was her true home and then discovered the truth that her Patrons created this fake island to ensure she could never lead anyone to Ares. The volumes themselves didn't focus on her conceptual origin, so as a new reader, I didn't either. For background info on myself, I usually came here to read your opinions about issues a few days after I read it to see how more experienced Wonder Woman fans interpreted the issue and how it was similar/different from mine. And a lot of the time you all discussed things from past issues - mainly New 52 - that I'd never knew of so I usually had completely different interpretations from a lot of the people here.

As a whole, I enjoyed all four arcs although I'll rank Year One - Godwatch much higher than The Lies/Truth. Not only because of the storylines which I found more accessible as a new reader, but also because I felt the softer art of Everly and Scott complemented Diana's world more so than the harsher strokes of Sharp - who is of course an extremely talented artist.