What's Your Verdict... Rucka's 2nd Run!

[Outside_85]

Ends with a (sort of) whimper, not a bang.

Come on, Steve can't have been that bruised?

[Nick Miller]

Thanks Major

[SiegePerilous02]

Also, some Rucka tendencies. Some people say he wants every female character to be a lesbian and I thought that was just a homophobic commentary... until now. Ok Diana and the Amazons, but Barbara and Etta too? Also, why turn nearly WW every villain into a tragic villain? I know it showcases how Diana wants to save everyone, even from themselves, but let's just keep it to some of them! Diana's actions are moved by pure love and compassion, so her arch-nemesis should be someone who is moved by pure evil. Why you didn't just bring Silver Swan back if you wanted tragic villains so much?

Well technically, Diana is bisexual. And while I agree that making Barbara AND Etta queer and pairing them together seems a but much, Sasha Bordeaux, Forever Caryle and Rowan Black (unless something changed in the latest issue) all appear to be straight.

[gwangung]

Well technically, Diana is bisexual. And while I agree that making Barbara AND Etta queer and pairing them together seems a but much, Sasha Bordeaux, Forever Caryle and Rowan Black (unless something changed in the latest issue) all appear to be straight.

Sasha's been a paramour of both Batman and Mr. Terrific, so unless the DCU's Mr. Terrific is gay like his TV counterpart and Sasha is his beard, I think she likes men quite well...

[Outside_85]

Also, some Rucka tendencies. Some people say he wants every female character to be a lesbian and I thought that was just a homophobic commentary... until now. Ok Diana and the Amazons, but Barbara and Etta too? Also, why turn nearly WW every villain into a tragic villain? I know it showcases how Diana wants to save everyone, even from themselves, but let's just keep it to some of them! Diana's actions are moved by pure love and compassion, so her arch-nemesis should be someone who is moved by pure evil. Why you didn't just bring Silver Swan back if you wanted tragic villains so much?

Bold: This is also a concern of mine since Geoff Johns is also really into doing this to alot of the villains he gets to play around with.
I understand that it's an effort to make characters more interesting by giving them understandable motivations for what they are doing. But I bothers me a bit that we are also supposed to feel sorry for these people while at the same time condemning them for their actions.

Take Johns' Sinestro as an example, he's been set up as: "He is actually a good guy, in his own mind, and wants the same as the Green Lanters, he is just willing to go further than they are." But at the same time we are confronted with the fact that he's the head of an army of the most sadistic murderers and madmen and is perfectly fine with letting them play out their fantasies on anyone they come across.

The same is the case with Wonder Woman, I think it's fine in a case like Cale to have a proper motivation for being Diana's enemy. I think it's fine as well that Cheetah has sympathetic traits.
Because I felt that in the past that Cale really lacked a good reason for being in Diana's face. Jealousy isn't a good motivation for an enduring hostile relationship, Lex for instance spices his up with personal OCD and basically xenophobia/racism, but Cale doesnt have either of those on Diana. Cheetah I felt like was in the same boat previously, she was cursed by a god because of herself, she was in great pain and decided to take it out on Diana because she wasn't hated by her own patrons.

Plus, sometimes you just need these monstrous villains around that everyone can get behind the notion is in need of a strong kicking more than they need a hug... like the First Born, a hug from Dad might have saved him, but he was so far past that point when Diana met him that it was too late for him.

[donnafan]

Honestly, I don't mind the portrayal of her villains as sympathetic characters because I feel that it gives them dimension. Look at X-Men's Magneto: he's spent time both opposing Xavier's dream and becoming a teacher/mentor of the X-men. Analyzing what Rucka did with Cheetah, for example. I think that he did an outstanding job of adding a new layer to a character that's been around for 50 plus years. I find myself caring about her and liking the character more than previous versions.

In general I thought that Rucka was successful at bring Diana back to basics and bringing back some of the elements that Wonder Woman was missing since the new 52 introduction. The thing that bothers me the most about this run is after the Lies storyline, I find myself questioning: Who was behind the Lies and what was their motivation? Who had the power to create such an elaborate lie and keep it going for this many years? As for potential villains, Dr Psycho has never displayed that kind of power. The Greek gods? If it was the gods then, to what point? Just to mess with Diana? To keep the secret of the location of Themyscira?

Basically, I didn't feel like we got a definitive answer to who was behind all of it. It's disappointing because I feel that it leaves readers with more questions than clears things up. Like: if Diana had never been back to the island then, she's never met the gods. Who was parading around as them in previous history or, was all of that wiped out? If Diana has never been back to the island then, who is Donna Troy and how does Diana remember the Amazon's implanting her with false memories? Clearly someone's been able to go back to the island because the Titans were able to secure an invisible jet. Who then, did the Titans get the jet from?? It's so confusing. So, we've never gotten a real Hippolyta or Amazons up until now? I'm a bit disappointed in that fact because I love the concept of Themyscira, Hippolyta and the Amazons in general and Diana being able to interact with them from time to time.

[DoctorWho]

Honestly, I don't mind the portrayal of her villains as sympathetic characters because I feel that it gives them dimension. Look at X-Men's Magneto: he's spent time both opposing Xavier's dream and becoming a teacher/mentor of the X-men. Analyzing what Rucka did with Cheetah, for example. I think that he did an outstanding job of adding a new layer to a character that's been around for 50 plus years. I find myself caring about her and liking the character more than previous versions.

I like tragic villains, I just don't think EVERY one of them should be one. I think that was great for Veronica Cale, no complaints here. For Cheetah, I have mixed feelings about it... I think the backstory was great and I was excited to see how it would lead to her become a villain, but then Rucka kept redeeming her of her actions.

I think Barbara should have her sympathetic childhood, her love for the Amazon culture, and her friendship with Diana, but she should've been a villain due to her own decisions... it'd be good if it had shown Barbara killing in the ritual to become the Cheetah, it would show she's eager to become powerful because in her entire life she felt powerless. Barbara has a good side and a bad side, but now it was simplified to Barbara=good/Cheetah=bad. Rucka made it seem that Cheetah is only evil because she's always manipulated by someone, always because someone did her wrong. It makes her feel less of a threat, which I don't think it's good for WW's most famous villain. A lot of people already think Cheetah always has to be working with someone else to be a threat to Diana, and I think this did her no favors.

As of Ares... I really can't see what benefit making him more sympathetic brought to the character.

[MajorHoy]

It did seem a bit too convenient to have Rucka cure Barbara of being the Cheetah in the first arc, only to force her to become the Cheetah again in her next arc.

[SiegePerilous02]

I think Barbara should have her sympathetic childhood, her love for the Amazon culture, and her friendship with Diana, but she should've been a villain due to her own decisions... it'd be good if it had shown Barbara killing in the ritual to become the Cheetah, it would show she's eager to become powerful because in her entire life she felt powerless. Barbara has a good side and a bad side, but now it was simplified to Barbara=good/Cheetah=bad. Rucka made it seem that Cheetah is only evil because she's always manipulated by someone, always because someone did her wrong. It makes her feel less of a threat, which I don't think it's good for WW's most famous villain. A lot of people already think Cheetah always has to be working with someone else to be a threat to Diana, and I think this did her no favors.

While I would like the initial ritual to be shown, I think there is enough there to indicate that Barbara becoming the Cheetah isn't entirely due to her being a victim. Comments from Urzkartaga and the twins tell us that her obsession with the divine has to do with coveting Diana's "specialness" in that world, and she gave herself up to Godwatch way too quickly. Etta and Steve weren't in any inescapable danger yet, her "sacrifice" was completely unnecessary. She wants to be the Cheetah, or something God-powered, without any of the strings attached and is willing to believe anyone who can promise her such a thing. There is a personal failing on her part as Barbara that leads to these situations, not the Cheetah.

I don't think this run painted a picture of someone who needs to work with someone else to be a threat to Diana. She spent the first half working with Wonder Woman as the Cheetah, and the second half working with Cale to find Themyscira before turning on her. We haven't seen her concoct a scheme to hurt Wonder Woman specifically to know whether she can or not, but Steve's comments about her previous actions imply she's been doing plenty in between Year One and the Lies.

[BFF]

Veronica Cale improved

Rich and jealous of Diana (i.e. "I'm the real Wonder Woman!" from Rucka's 1st run) = Luthor ripoff

Rich and bitter over losing her daughter to the Amazons = pretty good

[DoctorWho]

While I would like the initial ritual to be shown, I think there is enough there to indicate that Barbara becoming the Cheetah isn't entirely due to her being a victim. Comments from Urzkartaga and the twins tell us that her obsession with the divine has to do with coveting Diana's "specialness" in that world, and she gave herself up to Godwatch way too quickly. Etta and Steve weren't in any inescapable danger yet, her "sacrifice" was completely unnecessary. She wants to be the Cheetah, or something God-powered, without any of the strings attached and is willing to believe anyone who can promise her such a thing. There is a personal failing on her part as Barbara that leads to these situations, not the Cheetah.

I don't think this run painted a picture of someone who needs to work with someone else to be a threat to Diana. She spent the first half working with Wonder Woman as the Cheetah, and the second half working with Cale to find Themyscira before turning on her. We haven't seen her concoct a scheme to hurt Wonder Woman specifically to know whether she can or not, but Steve's comments about her previous actions imply she's been doing plenty in between Year One and the Lies.

I do agree with you that there's a possible interpretation that Barbara's obsession is responsible for her transformation and she's not a 100% victim, I hope another writer can explore it, maybe with Etta realizing that Barbara isn't as much of a victim as Etta thinks she is. But I don't think Rucka portrayed her as very threatening. In two occasions, Diana stopped the Cheetah... with a hug. I understand the symbolism of it, but I think it wasn't a necessary one. Cheetah, unlike is Joker and Luthor, is more of a physical threat than a moral or psychological one and that doesn't make her any less of a challenge: if she wants to kill you, nothing will stop her. Now we have the fact that Diana doesn't want to kill her because she knows the woman underneath the beast, but Cheetah will give her no mercy, and that gives the Cheetah an advantage. It would've been better to explore how Diana can stop this unstoppable beast - all while being merciful to her and being not as violent as her - without resorting to hugs that knock Cheetah down in a minute.

[SiegePerilous02]

I do agree with you that there's a possible interpretation that Barbara's obsession is responsible for her transformation and she's not a 100% victim, I hope another writer can explore it, maybe with Etta realizing that Barbara isn't as much of a victim as Etta thinks she is. But I don't think Rucka portrayed her as very threatening. In two occasions, Diana stopped the Cheetah... with a hug. I understand the symbolism of it, but I think it wasn't a necessary one. Cheetah, unlike is Joker and Luthor, is more of a physical threat than a moral or psychological one and that doesn't make her any less of a challenge: if she wants to kill you, nothing will stop her. Now we have the fact that Diana doesn't want to kill her because she knows the woman underneath the beast, but Cheetah will give her no mercy, and that gives the Cheetah an advantage. It would've been better to explore how Diana can stop this unstoppable beast - all while being merciful to her and being not as violent as her - without resorting to hugs that knock Cheetah down in a minute.

Well, we did get her taking Diana by surprise in issue #1 and getting her pinned to the ground, getting out of her grip pretty easily and escaping without Diana's notice in the Circe issue (and causing her some injury in the process; Diana looked worse than Cheetah did after that fight), pinning Diana to the tree and digging her claws into her shoulder, and best/worst of all, managing to get to Cale and clawing her pretty brutally when Diana was standing right between them and did it before Diana could even react. If Wonder Woman stops holding back and goes all out Cheetah wouldn't last long, but Diana isn't one to shut her emotions off and any character who can do even that much to Wonder Woman is still wicked bad news for anyone on, say, Batman's level.

I just hope future writers pay attention to the scene in the Circe issue. She still has enough intellect to find rare artifacts and plunder them. That combined with her vendetta to wage war on the Amazons and the Olympians for screwing her over (from her P.O.V) should lead to some serious crap hitting the fan. Hopefully since Johns is overseeing the DCU now and featuring her prominently in this run may have even been his idea that Rucka ran with, the ball won't be dropped as it had in the past.