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  1. #91
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    continued from above:

    He goes to his spaceship and has a revelation. This massive ship is full of hundreds if not thousands of identical bodies aboard, yep, clones of Krypto buddy, in stasis.

    So Superman digs a bit more inside the "computer" system, which is familiar to him since it's Kryptonian technology just like the Fortress of Solitude.

    Superman finds out that Krypto buddy is actually an artificial intelligence from Krypton that has evolved since the destruction of their world.

    He escaped Krypton just like Kal-El did and his real name is Brainiac. He has been going from planet to planet, taking their technology, helping these worlds reach a relative perfection and then he destroys them and moves on.
    Wait, why does he destroy them? Once again, the question of whether our illustrious overlord is right is sidestepped by the fact that he's actually genocidal. The question of whether or not Brainiac could actually improve the world, despite being a tyrant and ruling it, is rendered irrelevant by the fact that he's just going to blow us up anyway, for no reason that we know. Like many movies, this one sounds like it'd basically ignore any political questions it raises.

    Superman also finds out that he was actually responsible for the destruction of Krypton and tries to warn the leaders of the world but is confronted by Braniac. A massive battle ensues and Superman is about to defeat his foe but right just before Brainiac downloads his conscience into one oh his other clones.
    This is really nothing like my other, more substantive concerns, but it just kind of bugs me when there's a person to blame for Krypton's destruction. If there's a way of life that's to blame, or a war that's been over for centuries or whatever, that's fine, but Brainiac blowing it up just rubs me the wrong way somehow.

    Superman realizes that he must destroy this massive ship along with all the clones aboard. After another massive battle he is able to disable the ship, destroy the clones and the new Braniac but right before the ship is destroyed the Braniac main frame does a local search for another body that he could download in to, it has to be Kryptonian, and he finds another one on Earth, Superman's kid: Jason White.
    No attention paid to whether or not destroying the ship is morally questionable? Killing clones who've never done anything wrong except being grown by a monster? Yeah, okay. I honestly don't think that's too big of a deal, and in fact it probably would have been easy enough to explain away with the claim that these guys are literally braindead, but it definitely bugs me a little bit, like when I thought the genesis chamber Kal wrecked in Man of Steel was active before someone pointed out that they probably need the matrix to activate it.

    So Brainiac uses Kryptonian technology and beams/download itself into Jason's body and this causes causes him to age and grow into a full adult but with Brainiac in complete control.
    I can think of know reason why this would cause Jason to grow up. Also, what has he been doing the rest of this film? Are Lois, Richard, Perry, Jason, Jimmy, Luthor and Clark Kent even in the movie?

    Superman realizes what just happened and rushes to confront his very own son who is now possessed by Brainiac.

    Is Jason still there or is it all Brainiac? It's all Braniac and Superman knows what he has to do, he must defeat Brainiac at all costs or the planet and it's inhabitants will be doomed.

    It's a battle between two gods but Superman has already been run ragged and beat down pretty bad in his previous battles of the day. Brainiac has the upper hand and Superman is trying to not to do any permanent damage to Jason's body.

    Every time Brainiac is defeated in the past he simply tries to download to another clone and leaves that body completely brain dead but with no other bodies left, will Jason survive? The answer is no.
    That's dumb.

    There is a Christ like metaphor here. Superman has to sacrifice his own son to save humanity.

    There are still plenty of holes left in this story, we were not privy to all the details but this is the bulk of the info we received.
    Gee, are there holes in this story? I hadn't noticed.

    Anyway, I hate Superman / Christ metaphors enough when Jor is the Father and Kal is the Son, but somehow it got even worse with Kal being cast as the Father. Does Bryan Singer remember the part where Jesus comes back to life? Because that's such a cliche in movies that I almost hope not, but I don't know what grasp of Christian theology it takes to imagine God literally killing his own son instead of just handing him over to-- no, you know what, it's kind of the same thing. Has anyone ever posited "Judas-as-God-the-Father" before? Interesting. Don't really know what to make of that.

    Anyway, lots of Marvelman in this story, the Superman-analogue who's least like Superman out of all the ones who are even a little heroic or well intentioned. Pretty bizarre.

    I 100% maintain my earlier retraction of confidence in Bryan Singer, but you know what? Funnily enough, I'm still disappointed this didn't get made. Talk about a movie worth talking about! Then again, given the choice between this and the Man of Steel we did get? Not even a contest, I'm so glad we got Snyder instead. Shame about Routh though, he deserved and still deserves better. Wasted opportunity casting him as the Atom and not Superman on TV.
    Last edited by Adekis; 12-08-2017 at 12:19 AM.
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  2. #92
    Mighty Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Superman left Earth without saying goodbye Lois in Exile? Really? My memory of this storyline is fuzzy, but didn't he leave because he was being mentally manipulated by Brainiac into thinking he was a threat to humanity? Wasn't this also prior to Lois & Clark even becoming romantically involved?
    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    I don't remember that Brainiac thing. The way I remember it, Clark did such a bad job internalizing his guilt over the messy way he executed General Zod, Zaora and Quex-Ul that he had a schizophrenic break and started masquerading as Gangbuster to fight crime in a marginally more violent and intimidating way than he usually did as Superman, and after he realized that, he decided that he was dangerous. They redid a version of it in Adventures of Superman with Gangbuster replaced by "Demolisher", and removing the schizophrenic break. It's possible that Vril Dox caused the schizophrenic break and I forgot that,
    It was when Vril had taken possession of Milton Fine's body. He tried to uncover Superman's darker side and then Kal opened it up to him and freaked him out. After that (and coupled with the incident with the brains and the Word-Bringer), he started to have the night walks and stuff.

    (and, yes, prior to being romantically involved with Lois)

  3. #93
    Mighty Member adkal's Avatar
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    I've often wondered why they never explored that Donner-Lex knew that Superman had been on earth as a baby.

    I've had this 'alternate take' where Superman returns to find that the lives of those associated with Clark Kent have, in recent years, becoming hell.

    Farmers in and around Smallville facing foreclosure
    The Daily Planet fending off buyouts
    The apartment building on Clinton Street in ruins
    Everyone from Smallville High's Class of '65* is in trouble, with some missing
    Brad, lured into stealing some top secret tech, becomes Parasite

    Clark doesn't realise it's connected to him, initially (why would he?).


    (*the graduation year would have to have been updated, though. Probably to 1986 or thereabouts.)

  4. #94
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adkal View Post
    I've often wondered why they never explored that Donner-Lex knew that Superman had been on earth as a baby.

    I've had this 'alternate take' where Superman returns to find that the lives of those associated with Clark Kent have, in recent years, becoming hell.

    Farmers in and around Smallville facing foreclosure
    The Daily Planet fending off buyouts
    The apartment building on Clinton Street in ruins
    Everyone from Smallville High's Class of '65* is in trouble, with some missing
    Brad, lured into stealing some top secret tech, becomes Parasite

    Clark doesn't realise it's connected to him, initially (why would he?).


    (*the graduation year would have to have been updated, though. Probably to 1986 or thereabouts.)
    Hell, if we go by the dialogue in the artic police scene cut from II, Luthor probably knew Superman was Clark Kent! When he tries to convince Supes to let him go he shares his " plan" for Supes to fake his death and for Lex to manage him as a boxer. One of the nicknames he offers is the " Smallville Strongboy". Question is...when did Superman ever tell anyone he was raised in Smallville?

    Makes you wonder...
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  5. #95
    Mighty Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    Hell, if we go by the dialogue in the artic police scene cut from II, Luthor probably knew Superman was Clark Kent! When he tries to convince Supes to let him go he shares his " plan" for Supes to fake his death and for Lex to manage him as a boxer. One of the nicknames he offers is the " Smallville Strongboy". Question is...when did Superman ever tell anyone he was raised in Smallville?
    I haven't looked at the cut scenes in years. Will have to revisit them tonight!

    Makes you wonder...
    Just imagine... where they could have taken the movie-verse back then...


    I found my copy of Superman Returns: The Shooting Script recently. In the storyboards at the bag they had the bullet-in-the-eye sequence and there's a bit at the end of it (with the helicopter) that didn't make the cut, and it's a shame that it didn't. Maybe people felt it was too 'aggressive' or something but it's the kind of thing Superman did and does do.

  6. #96
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    Still bad. Singer and Spacey's involvement makes it retrospectively even worse.

  7. #97
    OUTRAGEOUS!! Thor-Ul's Avatar
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    I had to check if I had talked in this thread. I didn't, so my opinion.

    It dissapointed me. Really. All the time was, "hum, that already had happened in th first movie." "It's the same story" "And no,not even the new elements wereenoguh to diguise that weak plot. For that movie, we already have the original Donner film.

    Man of Steel can have their faults too, but at least it wasn't the nostalgia feast than Returns was.

    And in 2015 I suffered in the same way, but that is other story.
    "Never assign to malice what is adequately explained by stupidity or ignorance."

    "Great stories will always return to their original forms"

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  8. #98
    All about DC. DCStu's Avatar
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    I liked it, but I don't know if I could watch anything with Kevin Spacey in it now.
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