Best Spider-Man Writer

[nose norton]

Roger Stern used to have a CBR account? Or do you mean something else?

Used to, and now?

Jenkins and Mantlo are very hit and miss for me, thought I agree that they have done some really great stories. My favorite Jenkins story would have to be Return of The Goblin (Peter Parker vol. 2 #44-47) and my favorite Mantlo story would be The Owl/Octopus War (Spectacular vol. 1 #75-79).

The only thing that sticks to my mind about that story, is that heart to heart the two of them have after the battle, laughing and crying like old pals. Horrible.

The Owl/Octopus War is easily Doc Ock's best story and one of the best Spider-Man tales of the 1980s in my opinion, so I'm surprised more people don't talk about it.

It was ok, but there're better Octopus stories, as well as Mantlo's.

[Masked Guy]

Used to, and now?

Didn't know that.

The only thing that sticks to my mind about that story, is that heart to heart the two of them have after the battle, laughing and crying like old pals. Horrible.

I thought that was one of the strongest moments in the story. The two have been such hated and bitter rivals for so long that they have an odd sort of bond with one another.

It was ok, but there're better Octopus stories, as well as Mantlo's.

In my opinion, The Owl/Octopus War was the definite highlight of Mantlo's stint.

[nose norton]

The two have been such hated and bitter rivals for so long that they have an odd sort of bond with one another.

He's the guy who killed the girl you loved, the only thing I can understand in that context, is hate.

In my opinion, The Owl/Octopus War was the definite highlight of Mantlo's stint.

I liked the two issues with Miller better, some of the ones by Hannigan too (Electro, Boomerang, two with Silvermane, Kid Octopus) and let's not forget the ones by Frenz and (much later) Giffen.

[blackspidey2099]

I thought that was one of the strongest moments in the story. The two have been such hated and bitter rivals for so long that they have an odd sort of bond with one another.

I don't know about you, but I can't imagine Peter even being able to look at the face of the man who killed his first love without utter revulsion, let alone talk to him like they're pals.

[nose norton]

I don't know about you, but I can't imagine Peter even being able to look at the face of the man who killed his first love without utter revulsion, let alone talk to him like they're pals.

When the Kingpin tried to kill aunt May, he beat him to a pulp. The only reason to leave Norman live, is to beat him some more in the future. There's no good reason why he shouldn't even be able to, he's just as strong, faster, has his spider-sense... if he's not pulling his punches, all encounters should en like the one in ASM #122 (glider excluded).

[WebLurker]

It was about a decade. And they weren't really legacy or reboots, jut new characters. Then when fans asked about the originals, the whole Earth-2 thing got set up.

Also, Ted Kord was the second Blue Beetle. And Jaime's probably popular enough to have become the "real" Blue Beetle as well.

Carol Danvers also doesn't have an asterisk.

Fair enough. However, it is worth noting that many of those characters are not A-listers. Peter Parker is a Batman and Superman-level character in terms of popularity and (relative) longevity in the title, and historically, those characters cannot be successfully replaced.

[blackspidey2099]

When the Kingpin tried to kill aunt May, he beat him to a pulp. The only reason to leave Norman live, is to beat him some more in the future. There's no good reason why he shouldn't even be able to, he's just as strong, faster, has his spider-sense... if he's not pulling his punches, all encounters should en like the one in ASM #122 (glider excluded).

Exactly. To be honest, Norman is no match for a serious Peter - Peter is significantly stronger, faster, smarter, more skilled, and has Spider sense. The only reason Norman isn't completely destroyed by Peter in seconds is because that would get old after a while. I do think Norman needs an upgrade - at least when he knew Peter's identity he could threaten to kill Peter's loved ones, so Peter couldn't just beat him up and risk Norman revealing his identity or killing his friends. Thats when Osborn actually poses a threat - not directly to Peter but to Peter's life.

[Masked Guy]

I don't know about you, but I can't imagine Peter even being able to look at the face of the man who killed his first love without utter revulsion, let alone talk to him like they're pals.

It's actually a moment that works because of its oddness, similar to Batman sharing a laugh with The Joker at the end of The Killing Joke. It's very sudden and even out of character, but it's so unexpected and quick that it kind of works.

[Frontier]

I don't know about you, but I can't imagine Peter even being able to look at the face of the man who killed his first love without utter revulsion, let alone talk to him like they're pals.

Well, we're talking about the same character who, relatively recently, seemed to be under the impression that the man who killed Captain Stacy, almost committed genocide on a global scale, stole his life and basically "killed" him was a "good guy deep down."

When the Kingpin tried to kill aunt May, he beat him to a pulp. The only reason to leave Norman live, is to beat him some more in the future. There's no good reason why he shouldn't even be able to, he's just as strong, faster, has his spider-sense... if he's not pulling his punches, all encounters should en like the one in ASM #122 (glider excluded).

Surprising that didn't come up the last time Peter and Fisk were together in Clone Conspiracy, but I guess it would not have behooved the story which needed Peter to be willing to work with Fisk.

[Masked Guy]

Well, we're talking about the same character who, relatively recently, seemed to be under the impression that the man who killed Captain Stacy, almost committed genocide on a global scale, stole his life and basically "killed" him was a "good guy deep down."

That line was far dumber than Spidey sharing a quick laugh with The Green Goblin in my opinion.

Surprising that didn't come up the last time Peter and Fisk were together in Clone Conspiracy, but I guess it would not have behooved the story which needed Peter to be willing to work with Fisk.

The Kingpin really shouldn't want to have anything to do with Spider-Man after that brutal beating he administered in Back in Black.

By the way, who is your personal favorite Spider-Man writer?

[blackspidey2099]

Well, we're talking about the same character who, relatively recently, seemed to be under the impression that the man who killed Captain Stacy, almost committed genocide on a global scale, stole his life and basically "killed" him was a "good guy deep down."

The difference between Osborn and Ock in this case is that, after Ock did all that, he received all of Peter's memories and effectively became a different person and WANTED to be a hero. While Superior Ock hasn't completely been redeemed (unlike the original Ock) he was still a hero for the most part, despite his arrogance, and was a good person. (To be honest though, I do think Superior Ock is a bit out of character compared to Ock as he was in SSM #17).

Surprising that didn't come up the last time Peter and Fisk were together in Clone Conspiracy, but I guess it would not have behooved the story which needed Peter to be willing to work with Fisk.

Well, I think Peter is mature enough to temporarily accept assistance from a villain to stop another villain. It doesn't mean they became friends or even liked each other.

[Frontier]

The difference between Osborn and Ock in this case is that, after Ock did all that, he received all of Peter's memories and effectively became a different person and WANTED to be a hero. While Superior Ock hasn't completely been redeemed (unlike the original Ock) he was still a hero for the most part, despite his arrogance, and was a good person. (To be honest though, I do think Superior Ock is a bit out of character compared to Ock as he was in SSM #17).

Well, for a given definition of "good," given most of it was Ock just trying to fulfill his own ego and using Peter's body to do things Peter would never do.

I think it's overselling Ock as Spider-Man as being a "good person." He tended to do good deeds more or less but not out of a real sense of altruism, and that didn't change who he was or take away from the crimes he'd done prior (especially since his whole stint as a hero was based on a HUGE crime). For Peter to think otherwise was very foolish on his part.

Well, I think Peter is mature enough to temporarily accept assistance from a villain to stop another villain. It doesn't mean they became friends or even liked each other.

Still, this guy effectively almost had Aunt May killed. The relationship should be far more contentious then it seemed to be in that series.

[blackspidey2099]

Well, for a given definition of "good," given most of it was Ock just trying to fulfill his own ego and using Peter's body to do things Peter would never do.

I think it's overselling Ock as Spider-Man as being a "good person." He tended to do good deeds more or less but not out of a real sense of altruism, and that didn't change who he was or take away from the crimes he'd done prior (especially since his whole stint as a hero was based on a HUGE crime). For Peter to think otherwise was very foolish on his part.

Well, Ock was trying to be a more efficient Spider-Man, and that came out of his sense of ego, but also, I think, a genuine sense of responsibility that was imparted to him by Peter. I will admit that it is open to interpretation whether Ock as Spider-Man had altruistic intentions or was solely motivated by ego, but I think most of the evidence leans towards the former. If Ock WAS solely motivated by ego, why bother being a hero in the first place?

Also, I considering Superior Spider-Man Ock to be a different person from the portrayal before, since he is at least partly influenced by Peter's personality as well. I'd say he was closest to being an anti-hero rather than wholly a villain or pure-hearted superhero. To be honest, I think Ock's portrayal as Superior Ock is what is lacking (and Clone Conspiracy Ock was even worse).

Still, this guy effectively almost had Aunt May killed. The relationship should be far more contentious then it seemed to be in that series.

Oh yeah, I definitely thought that Slott had forgotten about Back in Black when writing Clone Conspiracy, going by the dialogue. The two should definitely have been more antagonistic towards each other. However, I don't think it would have made any difference to the plot, since Peter would still have grudgingly accepted Fisk's help to stop Jackal/Reilly.

[TheCape]

I don't know about you, but I can't imagine Peter even being able to look at the face of the man who killed his first love without utter revulsion, let alone talk to him like they're pals.

Eh, i'm fine with that moment, Peter and Norman are in a very low emotional place around that point and after a long battle, both are just laught of the absurdity of their situations, the difference, as always, is that Norman was consumed by his demons, long time and isn't really able to move foward, Peter is, and he has left that clear to Norman in their last encounters.

The dumb part is him saying that he doesn't really hate Norman, wich i call BS this man, as far as he knows, killed his child, there is no way that Peter doesn't hate him for that. So i'm just going to take that as him liying to Norman, to make that victory more empty.

[nose norton]

Exactly. To be honest, Norman is no match for a serious Peter - Peter is significantly stronger, faster, smarter, more skilled, and has Spider sense. The only reason Norman isn't completely destroyed by Peter in seconds is because that would get old after a while. I do think Norman needs an upgrade - at least when he knew Peter's identity he could threaten to kill Peter's loved ones, so Peter couldn't just beat him up and risk Norman revealing his identity or killing his friends. Thats when Osborn actually poses a threat - not directly to Peter but to Peter's life.

No argument there, in fact when SM really humiliated him in battle and sent him to jail...

Screen Shot 2017-07-31 at 14.05.42 copy.jpg

What was Osborn's reaction? He hired Gargan and shared his secret identity with him, to kidnap Aunt May. But that wasn't the best part, the thing no other writer has touched up to this day, was this revelation...

Screen Shot 2017-07-31 at 14.57.52 copy.jpg

I find it kind of suspicious, that right after that, in ASM, Peter got a letter that supposedly came from Gwen. That's a story waiting to be published, and I don't say "written", because the basic plot points were already posted in another thread, in this very forum.