So Who Is Your Favourite Alternate Gwen Stacy?

[AngelJD]

Ok I remembered that differently - something about being a first draft and hating the Jackal for cloning more Gwens ...

Thanks

That was Abby-L. She was in one issue of Spider-Man series called 'Spider-Man: Deadly Foes'.

I think people are mixing a few Gwen versions born by science/cloning up.

616:
#1: Joyce Delaney:
We have the first Gwen clone who was introduced to us readers who is called 'Joyce Delaney'. She was very much like 616 Gwen however she wanted to live her own life and start fresh thus moved to London. She did come back to assist Peter and MJ
plus wanted to take down the Jackal when the Jackal attacked them all during 'Total Clonage' story arc. The Jackal was trying to make a non sentient clones Spider-man army for him to command plus but with the help of Joyce, MJ, Kaine, Ben, and Peter the Jackal lost.
She went back to London to live her own life agian when just before the Spider island event happened she was murdered by 'Abby-L'.

#2: Abby-L:
Abby-L character was made and was only in in a prelude tale for the Spider-island event by Scott. According to the story Abby-L was really the first attempt by Miles to clone Gwen. Things didn't go as planned. She has the virus inside her (which it seems Joyce didn't) and was not a successful attempt yet she lived. Abby-L saw Clones as hollow husks only vs sentient living beings despite their birth and made Jackel vow to not to try cloning agian. When she discovered he broke his vow she got a sniper rifle and murdered Joyce when she came home in London shooting her from a roof. Later she tried to kill the Jackal and Kaine but an explosion happened in the lab she was fighting the Jackal in and she got pinning her down. Abby-L ask Kaine to save her but Kaine saved the Jackal not her and she died in an explosion.

#3: Deadpool's sex Gwens:
Then we had some sex Gwen Clones who was born to be a living servants and wasn't sentient or could think outside of what their master wanted and was made only for pleasure for Deadpool. I not sure where they went or if they died but most likely won't be back. They were not made to be taken seriously nor be characters in their own right and was made as a joke.

#4: The Gwen clone during Superior Spider-man:
Another clone was made agian of Gwen during Spider Ock storylines. She was told by Ock that as a clone she had no rights to live and was a fake and didn't existed. Kaine wanted to save her but she instead committed suicide possibly broken by Ock's words.


#5: Clone Conspiracy Gwen Stacy:
Clone Conspiracy Gwen Stacy (This case I'm going to call her 'CC Gwen') in the 616 has been the closest to the first Gwen Stacy of 616 due to the matters that her mind and body wasn't tempted with thus she even recalls her death. Unlike the other 616 Gwens born from science CC Gwen saw herself as 'Gwen Stacy'. She assisted the new Jackel and New U as the Jackal "felt much like Peter" thus she stuck by him. It was revealed that Gwen died learning Peter's secret from the Green Goblin/Osborn and she felt shocked and betrayed before dying simple because she wasn't told by Peter himself. However Gwen didn't feel angry or blame Peter for hiding the secret in the first place knowing why he had to or even her own death knowing it wasn't his fault (even though it was his web line that snapped her neck Gwen knew he was just trying to save her from a fall caused by the Goblin).
She was one of my favorites of the 616 Gwen's due to issue #23 and CC #5 and wished she lived and continued to grow somehow plus some other ideas.

The CC Gwen version in that story arc at first wasn't getting flesh out as a character getting kidnapped by Kaine and Gwen of Earth-65 and used as a lab rat and nothing more till Amazing Spider-man #23 happened and CC #5. In Amazing Spider-man #23 Gwen has a talk with Peter behind doors so she can talk face to face with Peter. They have a small talk about Earth-65 Gwen and Gwen also asks him about MJ and if Peter married MJ. She was upset with Peter for not: making it work with MJ and how Peter seems to be self-blaming/harming himself to many times. They also have a small talk about the nature of how she and other are living and if they are separate people or the same person from before. Gwen see's herself as the same Gwen though she knows she died but Peter doesn't feel the same way. Gwen wants Peter to see her as genuine 'Gwen Stacy' that she feels herself to be and important to him but becomes despondent when he won't allow his emotions to give any validation. As he begins to walk away CC Gwen begins to self doubt and question if she really is the first 616 Gwen Stacy resurrected or a brand new 616 Gwen Stacy (it seems she doesn't question that she is 'Gwen Stacy' or what she feels for Peter but becomes unsure if she is a new version thus has the pure memories but a new version much like Earth-65 Gwen is 'Gwen Stacy' but isn't 616 Gwen).

In CC #5 when chaos erupts due to Jackel/Ben enhancing the virus starting to kill many in the area CC Gwen goes and assists Peter leading him to the main New U lab where all things can be fixed. CC Gwen sees briefly Earth-65 Gwen Stacy/Spider-Woman/Spider-Gwen in action from a window with Peter and is surprised, happy, and feels that Earth-65 Gwen has to be 'the far better Gwen version'. Peter in the time of crisis starts to feel otherwise about CC Gwen and states to CC Gwen that he 'knows his deep down his beloved Gwen Stacy and he has started to feel that she really is..." CC Gwen interrupts him from talking further.
Possibly she stopped him from talking further as she doesn't want him to get attached to her now (unknowing to Peter CC Gwen plans to do a 'last stand' against 3 Goblins chasing them whom Peter can't shake off to save him and the world). Also possible that while he now see's her as truly his 616 Gwen Stacy back to life she has gone moving to the other side of the debate.
CC Gwen tricks Peter closing a door between him and her telling him and forcing him to go to the lab inside without her as she plans on staying behind to fight off the three Goblins that was chasing them before just by herself to buy Peter time. All this while she is slowly declining from the frequency enhanced by Ben/Jackel affecting the virus inside her and others that Peter is trying to stop and reverse curing all the one's affected from the virus eating them from the inside. After the chaos had ended and peter was able to cure those affected by the virus with a new frequency many of the one's who was born/reborn from science had died before Peter was able to start his plan but a few lived. Peter went to see if 616 CC Gwen/Gwen lived despite knowing even if she survived the virus she still went to have a big standoff against three deadly Goblins. Peter could only found her coat on the ground of where he last saw her.

From those two issues had me add that version of Gwen to my love list and sad by her death partially due that I: really liked her, wanted her to have an interaction/real talk with Earth-65 Gwen that was surprisingly involved in CC, and how common it felt by now having her die that I just wanted a dang good Gwen Stacy version born in 616 to live for a change of pace (but no body was really found (just a coat) or on screen death of this version so I have hope but most likely this Gwen version won't be back).



Then we have 1610 Ultimate Universe.
There also was a technically 'Clone' Gwen but oddly enough rarely the characters mentioned that she was living due to cloning science methods unlike 616 stories. This 1610 Gwen version is the one I think WebLucker is talking about. Unlike the other Gwen's born/resurrected from science many fans loved her. She basically was the first version of 1610 Gwen and the characters treated her as 'Gwen' and to matter. When she was born/resurrected she also had in her gene's the symbiote (due to how 1610 Gwen died was being absorbed by the symbiote thus her genes was mingled with the symbiote's) thus she carried with her the 1610 version of Carnage that was apart of her DNA. In a short time the symbiote side of her was taken out with only her human genes as far as they knew left according to 1610 Tony Stark.
She stayed with the Parkers and went to school with the rest of the cast. I think one of the reasons she was well received and highly like was not only being a likable character but also as the other characters treated her like she was Gwen resurrected (with no real evidence for or against this) and to matter and was a character. Outside of the explanation on why she was back there was no mention of being 'a clone' or the common tropes of if she is 'real' or matters but she was treated to existed. Thus since the characters responded that her life matters and that 'Gwen' was back the readers in turn responded I feel the same way.

[WebLurker]

Then we have 1610 Ultimate Universe.
There also was a technically 'Clone' Gwen but oddly enough rarely the characters mentioned that she was living due to cloning science methods unlike 616 stories. This 1610 Gwen version is the one I think WebLucker is talking about.

Yep.

Unlike the other Gwen's born/resurrected from science many fans loved her. She basically was the first version of 1610 Gwen and the characters treated her as 'Gwen' and to matter. When she was born/resurrected she also had in her gene's the symbiote (due to how 1610 Gwen died was being absorbed by the symbiote thus her genes was mingled with the symbiote's) thus she carried with her the 1610 version of Carnage that was apart of her DNA. In a short time the symbiote side of her was taken out with only her human genes as far as they knew left according to 1610 Tony Stark.

Yeah, although it was never really explained where the DNA was retrieved in the first place.

She stayed with the Parkers and went to school with the rest of the cast. I think one of the reasons she was well received and highly like was not only being a likable character but also as the other characters treated her like she was Gwen resurrected (with no real evidence for or against this) and to matter and was a character.

The closest they got to addressing it was Iron Man's explanation: "..she's a molecular copy. But an exact one. There's-there's no difference. On any definable genetic level. So, the question is...if she's biologically Gwen Stacy and mentally Gwen Stacy...who are we to say that she's not Gwen Stacy?" (USM #128/Vol. 21: War of the Symbiotes)

From the Gwen clone's perspective, she's the same person: "I was killed by something just like this [a new Venom was in town]. It took in my -- my life juices. (That sounds gross.) My genetic whatever and I was a part of if. I was a-a monster. But then, thanks to Peter, thanks to a lot of things...I was separated from it. The part that was me got to be me again." (Ultimate Comics Spider-Man #21/Vol. 4: Venom War).

Outside of the explanation on why she was back there was no mention of being 'a clone' or the common tropes of if she is 'real' or matters but she was treated to existed. Thus since the characters responded that her life matters and that 'Gwen' was back the readers in turn responded I feel the same way.

Well, I wasn't a fan of the return, but mostly because I don't think anything really interesting was done with her, not because it was a bad idea in and of itself.

[Vixx]

That was Abby-L. She was in one issue of Spider-Man series called 'Spider-Man: Deadly Foes'.

I think people are mixing a few Gwen versions born by science/cloning up.

616:
#1: Joyce Delaney:
We have the first Gwen clone who was introduced to us readers who is called 'Joyce Delaney'. She was very much like 616 Gwen however she wanted to live her own life and start fresh thus moved to London. She did come back to assist Peter and MJ
plus wanted to take down the Jackal when the Jackal attacked them all during 'Total Clonage' story arc. The Jackal was trying to make a non sentient clones Spider-man army for him to command plus but with the help of Joyce, MJ, Kaine, Ben, and Peter the Jackal lost.
She went back to London to live her own life agian when just before the Spider island event happened she was murdered by 'Abby-L'.

#2: Abby-L:
Abby-L character was made and was only in in a prelude tale for the Spider-island event by Scott. According to the story Abby-L was really the first attempt by Miles to clone Gwen. Things didn't go as planned. She has the virus inside her (which it seems Joyce didn't) and was not a successful attempt yet she lived. Abby-L saw Clones as hollow husks only vs sentient living beings despite their birth and made Jackel vow to not to try cloning agian. When she discovered he broke his vow she got a sniper rifle and murdered Joyce when she came home in London shooting her from a roof. Later she tried to kill the Jackal and Kaine but an explosion happened in the lab she was fighting the Jackal in and she got pinning her down. Abby-L ask Kaine to save her but Kaine saved the Jackal not her and she died in an explosion.

#3: Deadpool's sex Gwens:
Then we had some sex Gwen Clones who was born to be a living servants and wasn't sentient or could think outside of what their master wanted and was made only for pleasure for Deadpool. I not sure where they went or if they died but most likely won't be back. They were not made to be taken seriously nor be characters in their own right and was made as a joke.

#4: The Gwen clone during Superior Spider-man:
Another clone was made agian of Gwen during Spider Ock storylines. She was told by Ock that as a clone she had no rights to live and was a fake and didn't existed. Kaine wanted to save her but she instead committed suicide possibly broken by Ock's words.


#5: Clone Conspiracy Gwen Stacy:
Clone Conspiracy Gwen Stacy (This case I'm going to call her 'CC Gwen') in the 616 has been the closest to the first Gwen Stacy of 616 due to the matters that her mind and body wasn't tempted with thus she even recalls her death. Unlike the other 616 Gwens born from science CC Gwen saw herself as 'Gwen Stacy'. She assisted the new Jackel and New U as the Jackal "felt much like Peter" thus she stuck by him. It was revealed that Gwen died learning Peter's secret from the Green Goblin/Osborn and she felt shocked and betrayed before dying simple because she wasn't told by Peter himself. However Gwen didn't feel angry or blame Peter for hiding the secret in the first place knowing why he had to or even her own death knowing it wasn't his fault (even though it was his web line that snapped her neck Gwen knew he was just trying to save her from a fall caused by the Goblin).
She was one of my favorites of the 616 Gwen's due to issue #23 and CC #5 and wished she lived and continued to grow somehow plus some other ideas.

The CC Gwen version in that story arc at first wasn't getting flesh out as a character getting kidnapped by Kaine and Gwen of Earth-65 and used as a lab rat and nothing more till Amazing Spider-man #23 happened and CC #5. In Amazing Spider-man #23 Gwen has a talk with Peter behind doors so she can talk face to face with Peter. They have a small talk about Earth-65 Gwen and Gwen also asks him about MJ and if Peter married MJ. She was upset with Peter for not: making it work with MJ and how Peter seems to be self-blaming/harming himself to many times. They also have a small talk about the nature of how she and other are living and if they are separate people or the same person from before. Gwen see's herself as the same Gwen though she knows she died but Peter doesn't feel the same way. Gwen wants Peter to see her as genuine 'Gwen Stacy' that she feels herself to be and important to him but becomes despondent when he won't allow his emotions to give any validation. As he begins to walk away CC Gwen begins to self doubt and question if she really is the first 616 Gwen Stacy resurrected or a brand new 616 Gwen Stacy (it seems she doesn't question that she is 'Gwen Stacy' or what she feels for Peter but becomes unsure if she is a new version thus has the pure memories but a new version much like Earth-65 Gwen is 'Gwen Stacy' but isn't 616 Gwen).

In CC #5 when chaos erupts due to Jackel/Ben enhancing the virus starting to kill many in the area CC Gwen goes and assists Peter leading him to the main New U lab where all things can be fixed. CC Gwen sees briefly Earth-65 Gwen Stacy/Spider-Woman/Spider-Gwen in action from a window with Peter and is surprised, happy, and feels that Earth-65 Gwen has to be 'the far better Gwen version'. Peter in the time of crisis starts to feel otherwise about CC Gwen and states to CC Gwen that he 'knows his deep down his beloved Gwen Stacy and he has started to feel that she really is..." CC Gwen interrupts him from talking further.
Possibly she stopped him from talking further as she doesn't want him to get attached to her now (unknowing to Peter CC Gwen plans to do a 'last stand' against 3 Goblins chasing them whom Peter can't shake off to save him and the world). Also possible that while he now see's her as truly his 616 Gwen Stacy back to life she has gone moving to the other side of the debate.
CC Gwen tricks Peter closing a door between him and her telling him and forcing him to go to the lab inside without her as she plans on staying behind to fight off the three Goblins that was chasing them before just by herself to buy Peter time. All this while she is slowly declining from the frequency enhanced by Ben/Jackel affecting the virus inside her and others that Peter is trying to stop and reverse curing all the one's affected from the virus eating them from the inside. After the chaos had ended and peter was able to cure those affected by the virus with a new frequency many of the one's who was born/reborn from science had died before Peter was able to start his plan but a few lived. Peter went to see if 616 CC Gwen/Gwen lived despite knowing even if she survived the virus she still went to have a big standoff against three deadly Goblins. Peter could only found her coat on the ground of where he last saw her.

From those two issues had me add that version of Gwen to my love list and sad by her death partially due that I: really liked her, wanted her to have an interaction/real talk with Earth-65 Gwen that was surprisingly involved in CC, and how common it felt by now having her die that I just wanted a dang good Gwen Stacy version born in 616 to live for a change of pace (but no body was really found (just a coat) or on screen death of this version so I have hope but most likely this Gwen version won't be back).



Then we have 1610 Ultimate Universe.
There also was a technically 'Clone' Gwen but oddly enough rarely the characters mentioned that she was living due to cloning science methods unlike 616 stories. This 1610 Gwen version is the one I think WebLucker is talking about. Unlike the other Gwen's born/resurrected from science many fans loved her. She basically was the first version of 1610 Gwen and the characters treated her as 'Gwen' and to matter. When she was born/resurrected she also had in her gene's the symbiote (due to how 1610 Gwen died was being absorbed by the symbiote thus her genes was mingled with the symbiote's) thus she carried with her the 1610 version of Carnage that was apart of her DNA. In a short time the symbiote side of her was taken out with only her human genes as far as they knew left according to 1610 Tony Stark.
She stayed with the Parkers and went to school with the rest of the cast. I think one of the reasons she was well received and highly like was not only being a likable character but also as the other characters treated her like she was Gwen resurrected (with no real evidence for or against this) and to matter and was a character. Outside of the explanation on why she was back there was no mention of being 'a clone' or the common tropes of if she is 'real' or matters but she was treated to existed. Thus since the characters responded that her life matters and that 'Gwen' was back the readers in turn responded I feel the same way.

Just wanted to point out on little detail - I luv detail


Joyce / OG Gwen was shot, and showed dying (internal narrative) ... But she didn't dissolve on death. There also wasn't any police action about a girl with matching fingerprints (established in books) to a high profile NYC murder case; that would have gone off like a bomb.

It's a tiny improbable thing - but it is technically possible she survived and ticked in someplace - she's a world class Houdini when she wants to be lost.

Or she just dissolved off pants and no one in London - the most monitored city on the planet - cared or filed a report (not even her landlord)

*shrug* maybe it's a thread another writer will tug ...

Personally - looking at this list ... I think there has to be something special about Gwen's DNA, tied to cloning humans sucessfully. It's the simplest solution to 40 years of clone madness. Posted a long ass post about that a while back - based on pretty meticulous research (interns ...)

[AngelJD]

Adding another quick two cents in but this time but I also want to differentiated not just different Earth versions of Gwens but also designs, fashions, and styles should the same Gwen version have multiple fashion, art style, or other style changes during her appearance.
For animated Spectacular Spider-man Gwen Stacy as I wrote is amoung my top favorites and going further I really like her design when the show started with her wearing glasses and the red zip up sweatshirt look before her makeover happened. She was cute and truly felt like apart of the three amigos and a social outcast (vs the social butterfly and 'Beauty Queen' description of first 616 Gwen) yet fit her own mold and lovable characterization very well. She was different from other Gwens and that helps her stand out yet her bonds to Peter, Harry, and MJ was as tight as ever.

Again I hope Vixx that I'll have the time to write about Spider-Gwen's behind the scenes origins but that will take alot more time than I currently have to find the links to sources and post the informations. Busy setting up parties for 4th of July.

[Batman Begins 2005]

Gwen Stacy from The Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon and Spider-Gwen.